Obama Will Sign GIVE ACT Into Law Today!

hello all this is the first time ive posted here. this all reminds me of the hilter youth. here is some quotes from another website about what was said about it.

REQUIRE COMMUNITY SERVICE "Service learning": "The purpose of labor service was partly practical--to... provide a source of cheap labor--but mainly ideological. It was a part of the cult of community current in the youth movement now manipulated by the Nazis for their own end. Students would be confronted with Real Life and, by being forced to mix with the less privileged sections of the community, would be reminded that they were all [national comrades] together." (440-441) Mandatory service: "Service in the Hitler Youth is honorary service to the German people. All young people are obliged from the age of 10 to their 19th birthday to serve in the Hitler youth." (420) Character Education and Cooperative Learning: "We cannot fight our way out of this deep crisis through intellectualism... The school for character... which is a practical test of true comradeship in work and living is irreplaceable.... the true, great, practical school is... in the labor camp, for here instruction and words cease and action begins." (441)

this come from a book called Nazism: A History in Documents and Eyewitness Accounts, 1919-1945
here is a link to the article about it
The Nazi Model for Outcome-Based Education

thanks for reading

Sheesh! Im glad im not american and i grew in Portugal.. But not because of that bill.. Because of your permanently atitude of paranoia!
Wait for the end of the process.. There you will see what is all about! How it is gonna work, etc..

Dont start comparing it to Hitler Youth or whatever.. Its NOT same thing.. Portugal had something like it during Salazar dictature.. It mostly involved, as the NAZI one, the cult of the leader..

This is not what Obama (and i hate the guy, because this "good" stuff is to hide the bad stuff.. you better try find whats being covered by this issue.. this issue is really the distraction, not the other way around) means..

This has the potential to be a good thing.. Look its not government that will decide what kids can do after all.. Its their communities that will list what they can do to help.. This is not a TOP-DOWN things.. its BOTTOM UP.. just with a TOP-DOWN push.. because American society, as i see it, has hitted the bottom.. kids just play around with their PS3 or XBOX360 or whatever..

I already gave an example of something nice beeing done in Portugal.. That was done on a discipline that kids have in school.. That discipline existed already when i was in high school (im 25), and we never did any cult of the leader.. It was just a mean to get us involved with the community.. And it "forced" us to THINK for ourselves.. not other way around!

QUIT THE MAINSTREAM PARANOIA! Its is YOU who is not thinking for yourselves!

And saying that the government never does nothing to the common good.. This is completely obliviating the need for government.. I guess you would prefer completely anarchy..
An example: I work now on a municipality on a project to help local small/medium enterprises to enter a specific dynamic of a research and development by cooperating together.. its difficult but we are trying.. Dont you think this is good.. And by help i dont mean direct MONEY.. The city council is contributing with human resources like me researching how it can be done.. This will enable them to better face the challenges that they face and it turn maintain or create new jobs.

Now tell me why that is bad attitude from the government.. I know its a local government.. But this exact attitude is being fomented by the national government with funding for them (municiplaities).. Tell me why this is bad??

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by jibeho

Organizations like ACORN will qualify for funding from this program.

Based on what? Will you list some of the religious indoctrination and sex education programs ( if you can call education about abstinence 'sex education'; oxy moron if you ask me) that do get federal funding or is this a 'bash the poor who want their voices heard' only session?

An amendment preventing organizations such as ACORN from receiving funds from this bill was killed in the Senate session on this bill. I guarantee that ACORN will end up staffing half of the positions detailed in this bill. ACORN is another issue in itself.

Acorn will keep getting killed in the Senate as they stand for progress and social upliftment as espoused by the majority of the poor ( not black or other 'colored' folk) in the US.

Progressive chance will be fought at every step so if this bill passes first time round that may very well be a indication that Obama's intent with it is probably not in the interest of the American public; good things just don't seem to happen so quickly or easily.

Stellar

I think you misunderstood the portion of the bill regarding ACORN. There was an amendment in the bill that would have PREVENTED ACORN from receiving funds. That amendment was killed in Senate so therefore, they will now qualify for funding.

ACORN is corrupt and is full of left wing extremists. They are known to have a political agenda and they are clearly a partisan group. Despite what may be written in their charter. Groups like this are technically prohibited within the rules of this bill. Apparently, they are an exception to the rule. Hmmm...I wonder why. I expect to see ACORN members knocking on doors during next years census as well.



[edit on 22-4-2009 by jibeho]

reply to post by StellarX


I believe you took my post 100% backwards. I said we learned about how our government is supposed to work in civics class. I did not say it was wrong. I said what this "NEW" program does is turn that idea on its ear!
I also mentinoned the draft. I did NOT say I agreed with it, I said its the only legal means to conscript American citizens. And it is the only way, not the way this new bill should be used. It is conscription. If you read my post without malice you might se that we agree. Believe me, I was not endorsing it in any manner!
Zindo
edit for spelling

[edit on 4/22/2009 by ZindoDoone]

Originally posted by dooper
That's right. Isn't this akin to how the Brown Shirts and later the Hitler Youth were formed and organized?

I would say no it wasn't but since Hitler and the gang didn't even legally win that election why compare what was done by a illegal government to what is being PROPOSED by one that won the election and the popular vote?

I have a better idea. How about ACORN, since they have a lot of time on their hands and no regular jobs, how about converting ACORN and all welfare recipients into his service corps?

Welfare recipients are already often forced to work before they can get any kind of help. In fact the mother of that very young boy who shot a class mate left hope at five in the morning to take the bus to work the fourteen odd hour day ( commute included) the state required of her to enable 'welfare'. Talk about throwing money away when the absence of the mother creates far larger problems for the state than any small sum it may take to allow the proper education of her children...

The last whimpers of America?

So this is what we've finally come to?

If this program is twisted into a form where it leads to where you think it will it wont be a any more of a surprise than any of the other measures your friendly next door corporate ruling class has implemented or are working towards. I can understand the resistance to such a program but what i can't understand is that people seem to think that this is worse than most of the rest of the things currently happening with the US economy and people. Can't we perhaps rather discuss the fact that the trillions of dollars that are being handed to the ruling bank elites could have been used to generously pay people to 'volunteer' instead? Do you realise that hundreds of thousands of Americans may soon volunteer for these programs just to get a few warm meals a day?

I reckon if Bush tried to do this almost ALL the people now screaming bloody murder would have jeering those who 'refused' to patriotically 'volunteer' ( or just get 'drafted' , 'stop loss' in army formations) their services in the interest of the 'security' of the US. The fact that Obama is framing this not-so-voluntary-voluntary work in terms of service delivery is definitely the biggest mistake when dealing with the rapid selfish mob paranoid mob that is the " US uber Alles" crowd on ATS who could only accept being drafted as long as they are supposedly fighting 'terrorism'.

What a sad joke.

Stellar

the hole thing to me is about people who are free are not told what to do are government has got way to big for it self and has forgot to who it serves not the other way around

For those who haven't read the six versions of this bill, I just have to clarify that this Law not only targets our nations youth it targets the "55 and older" population as well.

There is strict verbiage that defines the roles that our nation's seniors will fulfill in this experiment. You will be assessed according to your skills and backgrounds. You will then be "assigned" accordingly.

Why target...
generations that have worked so hard to build up this nation?
generations that have seen their retirement nest eggs devastated?
generations that have fought and served in wars from WWII to our current War on Terrorism?
generations who have already survived one depression?

Haven't our seniors given enough? My grandma volunteered for 40 years at her local hospital. Our nation is full of citizens just like her who have given of themselves without even a blink.

Perhaps this focus on our seniors is due to the fact that Social Security is being tapped dry. All of this "new" money is being spent without recourse and bailouts and pork and I have yet to see one penny end up back into the S.S. coffers. I suspect this is why we a seeing a reversal on Illegal immigrants. The govt. will need the tax base just to pay for S.S. and medicare.

My head is about to implode along with our nation.

Originally posted by Harassment101
By the time they start with the grade school kids,

So where were the parents in the truly formative years before grade school? Why do you think MacDonald's and everyone else have to keep advertising if not for the fact that you have to perpetually bombard people with propaganda to make up for 'damage' parents did to 'your' little consumer if the first five years? If you can't make your child a worthwhile person before you send him to school you failed any ways and if you did all the nonsense they try to spoon feed him in school can be relatively easily corrected provided that you are actually as 'clever' as all you nay sayers here seem to think they are.

and indoctrinate them for eight years, they will be ready to turn you in, if you speak out of line about the government.

Well anyone who fears their children ( who fail to instill even such a basic sense of loyalty) can't be trusted with their children and may very well benefit by state intervention. And no, i think the system in place is decent and getting better about as fast as people are.

The line has been crossed, and I think the war has been won, but we just were not the victors.

Lines? You talk about 'lines' when American boys and girls ( which is what you really are at that age) are shooting people and getting shot at in Iraq? Why don't you fight your governments capacity to make war on nations that never attacked or threatened to attack the United states before you start worrying about being 'drafted' to at worse be propagandized to talk even less about the imperialistic intent that drove the Hitler youth and such programs? At worse these programs could reinforce the current problem but at best the US government will retain the right to start wars that consume many more young lives ( at last count going on five thousand with tens of thousands seriously wounded) than this program will any time soon.

Oh I know it's too soon to give up, we should wait till the trains start picking people up.

Indeed and the way your talking you better avoid trains; the paranoids will get you! Joking aside the trains have already transported millions of Americans into the US criminal justice system for using ( or possessing ) small volumes of substances the government deems 'illegal' while allowing alcohol adds on national TV and everywhere else. If you want to cry for your freedom do ( now that the train is FINALLY "coming for you" to 'shock, horror', propagandize you or make you do stuff you don't want) so where your ignorance and hypocrisy isn't quite so obvious.

Whatever bad can be sad for the perhaps naive sponsors of these ideas at least they are not desperately self involved ( or selfish in the clearly more destructive sense of it) as you seem to be.

Once they get the minds of the children, then it's too late.

And if you could not do something with their mind before sending it out into a world that has always tried to create conformity and order out of natural chaos. It really is too bad that you have no faith in your capability or abilities to instill your child with the tools necessary to make him a moral human being who will fight and eventually overturn/subvert ( to actually progressive causes) all the 'evil governmental' programs meant to at worse do what your corporately owned TV set has been doing to your child since birth.

Stellar

Originally posted by Amagnon
So - lets get this straight .. you want to live in a totally communist state - like China or North Korea - or more probably like Stalins Russia?

I am sure that if she wanted to she would have moved there and that they would be extremely unhappy about it getting someone with so many ideas in their minds...

Do you know how many people died in Stalins Russia?

No one does, least of all you or me.

He killed tens of millions - maybe a hundred million or more -

Why not just make it trillions to make it clear that you would believe practically anything when it comes to communist or persons claimed to be associated with them? In fact why don't you stop using the word communist out of context and just say ' 'evildoers', 'satan ( Stalin being spelled not so differently) and start quoting bible verses to show that corporate capitalism is good and social cooperation bad for us and not just corporations?

and you want to let America become exactly that?

Like what? Like the example of events that never happened in a country that were only run by something approaching communist for a few years out of decades that the Stalinist autocracy was in place? Americans actually overwhelmingly choose a socialist approach to governing the US but since the founding fathers set up the system to prevent the majority from getting what they want the perpetually propaganda have in fact convinced you that you want something else entirely. And then you wish to speculate about what other people want?

If you don't fight this - then nothing can make you fight.

There are plenty of pressing current problems ( enacted programs) that one can and should resist and i think you would discover that she is involved there. It's good to fight problems before they become larger but to bandage a mosquito bite ( when you took the malaria tablets; yes i thought of that too) when your still bleeding from yesterdays tiger bite is not the best way to improve your situation.

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX


You have continually sidestepped the issue at hand in practically every post. You are attacking individual posts and not the issue. Lets get to the point and get you off of your high horse for just a minute.

Do you have kids? Are you a parent to those kids?
If so, do you want them to be placed into these programs?
Do you want the government indoctrinating your children in the fine art of "volunteering"?
Do you prefer to teach your own children about civic duty and morality?
Do you want your Middle School aged kids to be mentored by some immature and probably delinquent High School kids?
Have you read this LAW? If so, do you agree with it?

[edit on 22-4-2009 by jibeho]

What i found really amusing is that no one comments my posts.. perhaps because they are from someone that had a taste of what Obama wants to do and im a completely normal person.. You dont know how to answer to that.. You fear what you dont know.. PERIOD!

reply to post by Picao84


I read your post, didn't respond because there wasn't much I felt the need to respond to. I do have a question about this part though:

Portugal had something like it during Salazar dictature.. It mostly involved, as the NAZI one, the cult of the leader..

I'm guessing that English is not your first language, so correct me if it's not what you meant, but what that says to me is that Portugal had something similar to what Obama is doing now and, just like the Nazi version, it was mostly just a cult centered around the leader. That is the exact thing that many of us are worried this is going to turn into. So either there has been a miscommunication or you are advocating the very thing we are arguing against and telling us it's ok.

reply to post by Jenna


Take things into context ok?
Entire paragraph:

"Dont start comparing it to Hitler Youth or whatever.. Its NOT same thing.. Portugal had something like it during Salazar dictature.. It mostly involved, as the NAZI one, the cult of the leader.. "

Portugal had something like Hitler Youth during the Salazar dictature.. What i meant is that i know exactly what it was, because my parents were in it.. and what Obama proposes has ZERO relation to it..

I would never defend the cult of the leader.. as ive already said, i hate Obama because of that cult that was generated around him..

But i cant be blinded by it... i have to see things for what they are.. not what they seem to be..

Schools and Government SHOULD NOT...and I'll repeat that SHOULD NOT be allowed to teach our children values. That is the responsibility of the parents to instill THEIR beliefs...whether the Government likes it or not! (and you know they don't).

The day that Government is telling our children what they are supposed to do will turn into the day that they teach our children what to believe, who to vote for, who to pray to, etc. And for this the "incentive" will be using our money to "reward" those who participate?

When I want my kids to learn something (other than math, science, etc...which I also do) I will teach them. And when I want them to do "work" to benefit the family or others...I give them allowance or some other reward...sometimes just some quality time with their Father.

This WILL turn into Governmental brainwashing...using our money to buy our children. How far is this from allowing illegal aliens to stay here just so they vote for a particular political party??? And if you decide not to participate...you don't get something others do??? Then what...if you don't "believe" what they want you don't get your food stamps...your social security...your tax refunds?

Well...guess I'm off to Home Depot again for another pitchfork.

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE


Who's talking about teaching anything? As far was i know voluteering is not done on a class..

Its objective is to promote relationships between children and their communities.. Making them have an active role on their community..

They are the future of any country.. and still they dont care about it.. just want to be inside their MMORPG or the next cool thing..

You can say that its the family duty to teach values.. Congratulations! Your the next millionaire! Thats obvious!

But whats in the spotlight here is not that.. We are talking about creating roots with the community, care about it, make a difference.. Instead of being home playing some stupid game..

You can yell all you can thats its a violation to the free choice.. But common, free choice has limits.. You cant kill a person can you?

You can argument that hes not damaging anyone by playing.. thats true.. but that attitude is hampering the community future!

Our world is what it is today (for the good and the bad) because people socialized from the beginning.. kids played on the street and all.. thats fosters relationships with the community.. Now the only community they have apart from school (and they are very closed communities) are their virtual communities.. Not real ones.

Thats one of the reasons why our society is falling apart...

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Picao84]

Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE
When I want my kids to learn something (other than math, science, etc...which I also do) I will teach them. And when I want them to do "work" to benefit the family or others...I give them allowance or some other reward...sometimes just some quality time with their Father.

What? Do you really mean it? Quality time with their father is a REWARD?

"Go make nice things.. After i will let you play with me."

Thats your attitude?

Quality time with family is right every children has.. not a reward!
And i wonder why children are what they are today..

Originally posted by jibeho
This is just the first step folks. Now Keep your eyes on HR 1444 which "studies" the feasibility of mandatory service programs. I don't anticipate any pomp when they sign this one into law because it was removed from the original version of the HR 1388. This will sneak through the back door while the nation is focused on the next distraction.

www.govtrack.us...

[edit on 21-4-2009 by jibeho]

Yeah, I just read the thing, and that's what it is--the formation of a committee, four majority members of the House and Senate, and four minority members of the House and Senate. God forbid our elected officials discuss issues in committee.

When we find out who's in the committee, we should all lean on 'em as much as possible. I have no problem surrendering a whole $3 a year to organize volunteers--I spend more on junk food in a week--but c'mon, not even the military is mandatory. I seriously doubt this will get any more traction than any other time it comes up.

My guess is that it'll be closer to the Obama proposal: give tax credit for volunteering. It doesn't require un-Constitutional B.S. and the right-wing partisan hacks always fall for the "tax credit" schtick.

One more edit: Yes, I've read through HR 1388. Perhaps someone could point me toward the mandatory service? I've also looked online, and aside from WND asserting that it does, and a few people arguing "no it doesn't but yes there's going to be a requirement to study it" I don't see it. So far it looks like the same partisan sniping that the GOP disinfo machine FOX News keeps pumping out. Quit marching to the beat of an Australian billionaire. Do you think he'd be hurt overly much by the failure of the United States?

[edit on 22-4-2009 by regeya]

[edit on 22-4-2009 by regeya]

[edit on 22-4-2009 by regeya]

reply to post by regeya


I couldnt exactly take your stance from that post.. But whatever it is.. I salute you for taking the right approach: dont start yelling and panicking without knowing whats gonna be in it.

Cheers

reply to post by Picao84


That's why I asked what you meant. To make sure I was understanding you correctly.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
I believe you took my post 100% backwards.

100%? What about the possibility of you having it 50% wrong and me getting it 50% backwards?

I said we learned about how are government is supposed to work in civics class. I did not say it was wrong. I said what this "NEW" program does is turn that idea on its ear!

Actually you didn't learn how your government were supposed to work in civics class. What you heard was a quite abriged corporate version of how they have interpreted ( by bribing the correct officials or subverting certain policy making mechanisms) the constitution to best suit them. Not that they had much left to do but it's not like the agents of forced servititude have not always did their best to improve on the methods of slavery. I am not sure that we know what the new program my encompass and certainly not what the practical results will be on the ground. I think we share the worse case scenario fears but in my case, i would like to think, i don't believe the this will provide much additional gears to a propaganda machine that has been working quite well so far.

I also mentinoned the draft. I did NOT say I agreed with it, I said its the only legal means to conscript American citizens.

It isn't the only legal means, the national guard guys didn't really sign up for the possibility of repeated tours of duty in Iraq. Beside that there are quite a number of methods by which the federal government can draft your services ( jury duty and aiding police/state/federal investigations or agents) without your express consent. In fact i just tried to make the point that you have never been as free as you think you are and that these additional programs and laws would change the situation very much. A additional step in the wrong direction it might be but hardly a path you were not all being forced marced down any ways.

And it is the only way, not the way this new bill should be used. It is conscription.

We don't know how this new bill will look in it's final form and we don't know how it will be abused. This thread is about putting out fires that doesn't yet exist by ignoring the multitude of fires all around us.

If you read my post without malice you might se that we agree. Believe me, I was not endorsing it in any manner!
Zindo

I can normally muster enough energy for spiteful, condescending or sarcastic comments but malice wasn't and will never be my intent. Perhaps we should both remember ( common problem with me) that we more often than not see, or presume to know, what we think others are saying instead of concentrating on what they are.

In closing what i saw in your post was fear of something that seemed to you at least a big step in a new and radically wrong direction. I attempted to center my post around my belief that this is a very old path and well trodden path and this most recently proposed step not very significant.

Well that's where i stand so if you still feel that i am greatly misrepresenting your initial post you should, and are obviously welcome, continue to clarify your point of view.

Stellar