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NATO To Press On With Georgia Exercises Despite Russia Threat

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posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 05:14 PM
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NATO To Press On With Georgia Exercises Despite Russia Threat


www.easybourse.com

Russia's plan to cancel a meeting of top military officials next month over alliance war games in Georgia and will push ahead with the exercises, a NATO spokesman said Monday.

"It is their decision to attend or not," he said.

"If there will be no reaction (to a Russian complaint about the exercises) we will take certain measures," Ambassador Dmitry Rogozin said.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.google.com
www.themoscowtimes.com
www.eurasianet.org
news.bbc.co.uk

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Georgia*Russia*Poland Missile Defense Shield ATS Thread!
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Georgia airfields earmarked for war on Iran




posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 05:14 PM
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Well this is really hotting up again and is getting very scant media coverage.

There is a 10th day of protest and near revolution in Georgia not hitting the headlines.

As we have all seen Russia has recently been flexing their muscles internationally.

Nato is going ahead with War Games in the region.

Russian's Black Sea fleet is not only in dispute with its Port in the Ukraine as a base, but seems to be mobilised with Commando carrying amphibious vehicles and en route to Georgia.

Many feel the last time the Conflict happened a cover was in place that in fact Georgia was to be used as an "Aircraft carrier" of sorts to allow a sorte and attacks on Iran's nuclear Facilities.

As Turkey et al would not allow fly overs, and this explained the CIA presence and US military in the area above and beyond the normal Russian US face off's and CIA meddling.

There are recent renewed rumours of an at least unilateral action by Israel in this regard.

Also Russia is now sending more planes to its base in Central Asia Kryzistan!

With a new right wing leadership in Israel with a very military orientated leader, and the happenings today as Iran's leader created a stir in the UN with dozens of diplomats walking out and the US calling his remarks

Hateful
, many ingredients are cooking at once!

Wishing for calm heads and no further conflict for the Georgians, Europe, Iran and the Middle east.

Kind Regards,

Elf.



www.easybourse.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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To add Russia has put pressure on Latvia now to who will not take part in the NATO exercises:



Airis Rikveilis, the head of the Latvian defense minister's office, told BNS that Latvia does not plan to participate in this exercise and the issue has ben been discussed with Latvian officials.

"The situation is that we cannot send any additional people there. The military exercise plan has already been approved and this exercise is not in the plan,"

Baltic Course

I find the last sentence very telling, what is happening re the exercises are they being stepped up?

Also



BISHKEK (AFP) — Moscow will increase the number of warplanes it has stationed in Kyrgyzstan, a Russian general said Monday, following the expulsion of a key US military base from the former Soviet republic.

"The Russian leadership plans to increase the number of individual warplanes at (the Russian airbase) at Kant," Nikolai Bordyuzha, head of the Russia-led CSTO security organization, told the Kyrgyz parliament.

AFP

It seems that much is happening behind the scenes but not much is being reported at all.

Always a sign of the real news.

Kind regards,

Elf.



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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Just posturing. Pieces are being moved around all around the globe all the time and while there could be deeper manings in any of said given movements, a lot of it is just posturing and nothing to worry about.

This too shall pass.



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 07:26 PM
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Thanks for this was unaware - Georgia is of considerable strategic importance. Has been for centuries. The Caspian sea has huge reserves and the entire region proved an alternative route for both Russia/China and of course the west.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 01:54 AM
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The EU is playing some kind of bizarre game with Russia. This has nothing to do with Israel's interests. This same game is going on in Moldavia as well.

I would guess the ultimate goal of this is European energy independence from Russia.

The US is no longer taking an active leadership role in European affairs and doesn't exactly have Israel's best interests at heart right now. The lack of leadership and the naivity of the current US government is helping bring about this mess.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by MischeviousElf
To add Russia has put pressure on Latvia now to who will not take part in the NATO exercises:



Airis Rikveilis, the head of the Latvian defense minister's office, told BNS that Latvia does not plan to participate in this exercise and the issue has ben been discussed with Latvian officials.

"The situation is that we cannot send any additional people there. The military exercise plan has already been approved and this exercise is not in the plan,"

Baltic Course

I find the last sentence very telling, what is happening re the exercises are they being stepped up?


I would not read too much into it. The Latvian economy is in a VERY #ty state atm and they are making cuts wherever and whenever possible. If the exercise was not planned a very long time ahead it is quite possible they just cannot afford to show up.... either economically or politically in front of their own people.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
The EU is playing some kind of bizarre game with Russia. This has nothing to do with Israel's interests. This same game is going on in Moldavia as well.

I would guess the ultimate goal of this is European energy independence from Russia.

The US is no longer taking an active leadership role in European affairs and doesn't exactly have Israel's best interests at heart right now. The lack of leadership and the naivity of the current US government is helping bring about this mess.


Could you elaborate why you think that NATO is part of the EU? Anyhow, this exercise is very provocative indeed, but NATO has every right to hold exercises in whichever befriend country it wishes. Russia pushes forward with advanced weapon defense systems to Iran too, nor do they care about Western objection. Regardless of whether you agree with Iran getting these systems or not.

Moreover, how could this exercise possibly be related to energy independence of the EU?


[edit on 21-4-2009 by Mdv2]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 03:24 AM
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reply to post by Mdv2
 


Here is NATO:



Here is the EU:



See the overlap.

NATO in the past was dominated by strong US leadership.

That leadership is now gone. The G20 meeting in London pretty much established the lack of US leadership in global affairs and the NATO meeting in Brussels opened the door for the EU to dominate NATO.

The EU will use NATO as the US has used it in the past, to further its own interests.

One of the primary interests is energy independence from Russia.

AZERBAIJAN: UKRAINE’S YUSHCHENKO PUSHES FOR ODESSA-BRODY PIPELINE IN BAKU


Project stakeholders -- Azerbajian, Georgia, Lithuania, Poland and Ukraine -- hope to build a conduit that would begin in Azerbaijan and travel via Georgia and across the Black Sea to link up with Ukraine’s Odessa-Brody pipeline. The quintet of states hopes to extend Odessa-Brody as far as the Polish port of Gdnask on the Baltic Sea coast and eventually, on the other end of the line, build a sub-sea pipeline across the Caspian Sea to get Central Asian oil powerhouse Kazakhstan onboard.

www.eurasianet.org...

Georgia joins White Stream gas pipeline project



Khetaguri said at the memorandum signing ceremony that the document reflects the parties' will toward cooperation in building a southern gas corridor, which he said would be in Georgia's and the EU's interests.

The project is aimed at ensuring Europe's energy security through the diversification of routes and sources of energy, Khetaguri said.

www.kyivpost.com...

Analysis: Kazakh investment in Georgia's energy sector

Seeking to further Kazakhstan's influence along its hydrocarbon export routes and diversify its options away from the Russian-dominated Caspian Pipeline Consortium pipeline to Novorossiisk, in 2005 KMG began to build a tanker fleet for the Caspian as well as acquire useful real estate. KMG, along with Western energy firms, pumped $5 billion into developing Georgia's Batumi, Poti and Kulevi Black Sea ports over the last decade, and in February 2008 KMG bought Georgia's Batumi Oil Terminal from Greenoak Holdings and French bank BNP Paribas. While the cost to KMG was not revealed, Greenoak had already invested more than $200 million in the terminal, which has a capacity to export 15 million tons per year of crude oil and products and two years earlier had paid $92 million for a 49-year lease to manage the port.

www.upi.com...

Azerbaijan and Russia edge closer to gas deal

Europe's hopes of securing natural gas from Azerbaijan via the Nabucco pipeline were further dampened on Saturday (18 April) when Azerbaijan's President Ilham Aliev said he wanted Russia to serve as a transit route for selling gas to Europe.

www.euractiv.com...

Analysis: Crises test European Union program for ex-Soviet republics

BRUSSELS, April 20 (Reuters) - Crises in Moldova and Georgia have complicated Europe's attempts to build closer ties with former Soviet republics without angering Moscow, but the European Union and NATO show no sign of changing course.

www.kyivpost.com...

Most of these stories are from the last two weeks. A new great game is starting between the EU and Russia while the US government is too busy trying to appease third world wanna be dictators and assessing that half of the US population might be terrorists.



[edit on 21/4/09 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


Excellent Post,

And showing the root of many of the current activities both by NATO and Russia.

As we all know Iraq was really more of an Oil rush, rather than a strategic move, though that was part of the reason, it was secondry to the energy issue, and $ from reconstruction.

We all Know Afghanistan was more about the Gas Pipeline than any Russian Border moves and certainly any Al Queda.

Russia therefore is using the energy muscle to control and dictate regions, the same as many member countries of NATO (long standing and the big 4) used for as a pretexts if unspoken for Land Grabs and regional interventions.

Kind Regards,

Elf.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by MischeviousElf]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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NATO seems to be looking for adventures with ambiguous if not moronic objectives, rather than turn its attention to what really matters. They are still trying to play Cold War games against an enemy that no longer exists (Soviet Russia). However if NATO is persistant enough, then just maybe that imaginary enemy will materialize into an actual adversary.


NATO should really rename itself Don Quixote - for it is a real life example of the farce.



Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Russian's Black Sea fleet is not only in dispute with its Port in the Ukraine as a base, but seems to be mobilised with Commando carrying amphibious vehicles and en route to Georgia.


Where did you get the bit about Commando amphibious vehicles, and mobilization of the black sea fleet?

I monitor Russian military forums, and I haven't seen any news about any significant movement by the Black Sea fleet?




Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Many feel the last time the Conflict happened a cover was in place that in fact Georgia was to be used as an "Aircraft carrier" of sorts to allow a sorte and attacks on Iran's nuclear Facilities.


Look on the map. Not possible. It has been discussed over and over already. Azerbaijan and Armenia separate Iran from Georgia. Neither of these two countries will ever allow flyover rights to attack Iran.



Originally posted by MischeviousElf
As Turkey et al would not allow fly overs, and this explained the CIA presence and US military in the area above and beyond the normal Russian US face off's and CIA meddling.


US occupies Iraq and Afghanistan, both of which border Iran, and have more than enough airfields. Why in the world would US need Georgia for this?



Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Also Russia is now sending more planes to its base in Central Asia Kryzistan!


Again what is your source? What airbase in Kyrgystan are you talking about?

If you are going to lay down such sensationalism, please provide a source.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


I see that your news bits are hinting that this is about energy - and I indeed think that that is the key to what is, and has been going on in the Caucasus.

Russia's Nord Stream gas pipeline project is well underway, and South Stream is being evaluated. Meanwhile Nabucco pipeline which is aimed to bypass Russia, has received much press but is encountering countless obstacles, not the least of which is the future of Georgia and Azerbaijan.


Perhaps this is what it all boils down to. And in that case, clearly EU would be a major interest group in the outcome of the "Pipeline Games", and one can only guess as to what their true role as the player in the game is. As for NATO - well there are two powers playing that fiddle - one is the US and the other is European members.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 08:29 PM
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Again what is your source? What airbase in Kyrgystan are you talking about?

Russia to send more warplanes to Kyrgyzstan: general

Moscow will increase the number of warplanes it has stationed in Kyrgyzstan, a Russian general said Monday, following the expulsion of a key US military base from the former Soviet republic.

"The Russian leadership plans to increase the number of individual warplanes at (the Russian airbase) at Kant," Nikolai Bordyuzha, head of the Russia-led CSTO security organization, told the Kyrgyz parliament.


Russia accuses US on missile shield


MOSCOW, April 21 (AFP) Apr 21, 2009
A top Russian official on Tuesday accused the US administration of President Barack Obama of intensifying missile defence plans and said Russia saw no basis for big cuts in its nuclear arsenal.

In an interview with Interfax news agency, Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov revived threats to site Iskander strategic missiles in the Kaliningrad exclave near Poland if Washington's missile shield plans in Europe went ahead.

DUH! Obama not following his promises to back down the threats about Russia... not a surprise, especially with his scummy advisors who HATE Russia and want it under NATO control one way or the other.

If I would be Russia, I would go ahead and keep my nuclear arsenal, because that's the only thing that would stop those madmans from attacking Russia. If Russia destroy their nuclear arsenal, there's no way that NATO would let the chance pass to conquer it since it have a big conventional military edge. NATO is crazy enough to make an alliance with China to conquer Russia in exchange of Siberia. China attacking from the south and NATO from the west... Russia would be screwed on a conventional total war.

It's not the 1940s, it wouldn't take 3 months for NATO to take Moscow like the nazis nearly achieved in september 41.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Vitchilo]

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Vitchilo]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
Russia to send more warplanes to Kyrgyzstan: general


Thanks for the source. From what I know Russia barely had any air assets in Kyrgyztan, but has been steadily increasing its presence there (with approval of Kyrgyz government) since 2003 when use of the Kant airbase has been reestablished. So it is not clear if this has anything to do with US and Kyrgyz relations, or it is just the normal continuation of Russian buildup of the airbase.

Either way this has nothing to do with Georgia or NATO.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
DUH! Obama not following his promises to back down the threats about Russia... not a surprise, especially with his scummy advisors who HATE Russia and want it under NATO control one way or the other.


Well thats not really a surprise. The US foreign policy after all has not been altered much whether the Democrats of Republicans are in power. All recent US presidents have continued the practice of containment of perceived threats - even if those threats are largely imaginary. Perhaps is the US military contractors who stand most to gain from the continuation of this strategy. And they have awfully good lobbyists.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
If I would be Russia, I would go ahead and keep my nuclear arsenal, because that's the only thing that would stop those madmans from attacking Russia.


Russian nuclear arsenal isn't going anywhere. The same goes for the US, and China. A nuclear strategic balance must be maintained for the "Mutually Assured Destruction" theory to have effect. And that theory is what primarily kept the world from assuming the state of nuclear winter over the past half century.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by maloy
 


Please look at the sources at the opening OP

and also:

Black sea Fleet Deployed 1

And:


STOPOL, Ukraine -- Russian Black Sea fleet ships based in the Ukrainian port of Sevastopol are preparing for large-scale naval exercises, RFE/RL's Ukrainian Service reports. Russian officials have notified Ukraine that 22 of its Black Sea Fleet vessels will leave Sevastopol for military maneuvers. This notification has been issued every day since the beginning of last week, but the ships' departure has been delayed for unknown reasons.

Source

Do you think the Israeli and American Commandos, special forces and military in Georgia just before the last skirmish were just on holiday then?

Kind regards,

Elf



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:08 PM
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So I have a question for all of you... especially Maloy who have family in Ukraine... is the deal ``Russian fleet in Sevastopol`` confirmed to be over? If it is, when do Russia fleet leaves? Why there's no more talk about Ukraine president being thrown out? Didn't Ukraine president called for Russia to be kicked out of Sevastopol earlier than the agreement allowed? Do you think that fleet is going to Syria after that or somewhere else?

If Ukraine kicks them out, will the Ukraine population accept it? Will they accept NATO fleet going in there?

What will be the breaking point for Russia to really think this is very serious that NATO want to get them? Will they wait until Ukraine and Georgia are in NATO and Belarus overthrown before doing anything?

Hopefully the crazy president in Georgia will be kicked out by the people... but NATO doesn't seems to want to let go, Georgia is too important for them to let freedom of the georgian people stand in the way.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Vitchilo]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Black sea Fleet Deployed 1


I see, thanks. But the ships haven't left the base yet and might not be deployed. The thing is that per agreement with Ukraine anytime there is even a slight chance that a deployement may be necessary, Russia must notify Ukraine ahead of time. So it might not actually have any exercises planned, but simply insuring that it can use the ships if the need arises.

As for the amphibious landing craft with commandoes - that is only speculation on the part of the news source. The ships may have left, but no one knows if what's in them. Either way I haven't seen any Russian or Ukrainian sources for this.

Russia doesn't really need ships in order to deploy troops in Abkhazia or South Ossetia. Nor does Georgia have a navy anymore. I simply don't see a realistic reason why the Black Sea fleet would be deployed any time soon.



Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Do you think the Israeli and American Commandos, special forces and military in Georgia just before the last skirmish were just on holiday then?


Well all I have seen is rumors and unsubstantiated reports during the August war. No concrete proof has been presented about any outside participants. Surely if Russia had proof, it would have already presented it. US admitted that some personel was in Georgia, but took no part on the actions.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
So I have a question for all of you... especially Maloy who have family in Ukraine... is the deal ``Russian fleet in Sevastopol`` confirmed to be over?


I assume you are talking about Ukrainian government mandating that the Russian fleet leave Crimea. In that case - as per agreement that was signed in the 90's, the Russian fleet has the right to remain in Crimea untill 2017, and Ukraine can't do anything about it. The Ukrainian government did make a decision that this contract will not be extended, but who knows what the future government of Ukraine will decide.

Russia is already readying a new base at Novorosyisk inside Russian territory, which will take in the majority of the fleet. Some ships may also be dispersed through smaller Russian Black Sea bases, and perhaps even Tartus in Syria.

Russia will probably begin gradually transfering the fleet to Novorosyisk before 2017, primarily because the new Ukrainian mandate that Russia must get Ukraine's permission anytime the ships are deployed, could be a major obstacle to Russian military strategy.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
Why there's no more talk about Ukraine president being thrown out?


Yuschenko has reached an agreement with Timoshenko for the time being, and now she and the Parliament have more powers than ever. There is no need to throw him out, since it is certain that he is not getting reelected again. Politically he is pretty much finished as soon as his term is over.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
Didn't Ukraine president called for Russia to be kicked out of Sevastopol earlier than the agreement allowed?


Can't be done per signed contract. If Ukraine broke that contract off, Russia could turn around and break other contracts with Ukraine (like gas supply) - and no one including Yuschenko wants that.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
Do you think that fleet is going to Syria after that or somewhere else?


Novorosyisk mainly. Tartus port in Syria remains under question.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
If Ukraine kicks them out, will the Ukraine population accept it? Will they accept NATO fleet going in there?


The opinion of Crimean population is more of an issue here. Crimeans overwhelmingly support Russia and the Black Sea fleet (over 75% of population). They will certainly protest the end of the contract, but accept it they will. However they will likely find ways to prevent NATO taking its place - after all the Crimeans halted NATO exercises there last years. They won't stand for NATO being stationed in Crimea.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
What will be the breaking point for Russia to really think this is very serious that NATO want to get them? Will they wait until Ukraine and Georgia are in NATO and Belarus overthrown before doing anything?



Georgia isn't getting accepted into NATO, not with the current leadership. If I am wrong - then NATO really has metastasized into an organization headed by militant idiots with sh*t for brains. In that case a new Cold War could be forced on Russia.

As for Ukraine - no one there wants to join NATO other than Yuschenko - but he cannot do it without the Parliament (Rada), and the Parliament is overwhelmingly against it. His replacement will most likely abandon NATO idea.




Originally posted by Vitchilo
Hopefully the crazy president in Georgia will be kicked out by the people...


He dug his own political grave. He must either yield to the people and get out, or solidify his power by quieting the protesters with force. If he chooses the second option, he will either be forced out at the next election, or attempt to become a dictator for life - which case he will not have long to live.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
but NATO doesn't seems to want to let go, Georgia is too important for them to let freedom of the georgian people stand in the way.


oil/gas pipelines and Nabucco > Georgian People and Georgian Democracy



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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The rhetoric is building, Russia is now calling the exercises a "provocation"


Also Armenia is now under pressure not to take part and is taking stick from Russia:



Russia is concerned over Armenia’s participation in NATO military trainings in Georgia, especially, considering the anti-Russian nature of trainings planned, RF MP Semen Baghdasarov said at TV space bridge entitled “Armenia-Turkey: Progress in bilateral relations or geopolitical games of world powers?”. “As CSTO member, and military and strategic partner of Russia, Armenia has to refuse from participating in these trainings, like a number of other post soviet countries did,” RF MP noted.

Pan Armenian

And Further this is very open and quite confrontational on the BBC Service a Top Russian Diplomat has accused The west and Nato of going back to the Cold War:



Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has accused members of Nato of reverting to the "confrontational logic of the Cold War".

In an interview with the BBC Russian service, Mr Lavrov said the roots of the diplomatic hostility lay in the alliance's "unilateral position" on the war between Russia and Georgia last August.

BBC

I just pray the words stay as that, and nothing else.

Kind Regards,

Elf.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:51 PM
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NATO invites Russia to monitor Georgia war games


NATO invited Russia Wednesday to send observers to alliance war games in Georgia next month in an effort to assuage Moscow's concerns about the manoeuvres.

"If Russia chooses to send observers, that is something that I think the alliance would look on quite positively, as a way of diminishing possible misunderstandings or concerns," NATO spokesman James Appathurai said.

How kind! See? Nato wants to be friend...




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