Major scandal erupts involving Rep. Jane Harman, Alberto Gonzales and AIPAC

Originally posted by jsobecky
I think the ire in this thread is misdirected. Instead of lamenting the 'control' that Israel has in Washington, you should be thoroughly disgusted at how easily our politicians are bought and sold.

If our politicians are so corrupt, you can't really blame another country for taking advantage of that fact. And finally, Israel isn't the only country that manipulates our gov't. Many others do (Saudi Arabia, maybe?) also.

I agree, but I'll raise the stakes... What about the fact that this coming from the NSA wiretapping US Representatives?

You see, many people LIKE that a US Rep is caught, but those same people don't realize how earth shattering this is - the NSA is spying on OUR US Representatives.

Don't get me wrong, I hate criminal politicians, Harman included, but I also hate big brother 3-letter domestic spying agencies. BOTH are bad, and they are dividing us once again with this wiretapping issue.

Somebody high up has to be very pleased with themselves...

Once the public accepts the NSA using their new tools like this then we won't be able to say anything when they start planting false "recordings" of their political enemies, which could be you or your children some day fighting for our rights.

Originally posted by Desolate Cancer

What many people neglect to realize is that a very big portion of the support Israel receives from the US is not because of the Israelis but rather because of the Evangelical doomsaying, rapture wanting, apocalypse dreaming, christian right.


This simply FURTHER shows that the govt is serving special interests and not the US populace.

Well, this is kind of a catch 22 isn't it? I've heard/read that in order for the end times prophecies to be fulfilled, all nations have to turn on Israel. That being the case, why would Christians want the U.S. to continue to support Israel when it is inevitable that the U.S. will eventually turn against Israel? Yet, if the Christians stop supporting Israel, would they not be turning against God?

Life presents us with loaded questions/situations sometimes. What are the answers? I do not know. I just sit back and watch stuff happen.

[edit on 4/21/2009 by Jessicamsa]

reply to post by srsly_you_guys


Just to add-on to your mode of thinking here..
There's also the fact that Bush was supposedly briefed on Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden twice before Sept. 11th 2001 and that an attack on American soil was imminent. Nothing meaningful was ever done. Then he lied about ever being briefed on the Bin Laden threat in the first place when one of the intel briefings was actually videotaped?

-ChriS

[edit on 21-4-2009 by BlasteR]

I highly recommend all of you to watch this Dutch documentary movie on the Israeli lobby in America.

For many years now the American foreign policy has been characterized by the strong tie between the United States and Israel. Does the United States in fact keep Israel on its feet? And how long will it continue to do so?

In March 2006 the American political scientists John Mearsheimer (University of Chicago) and Steve Walt (Harvard) published the controversial article 'The Israel Lobby and US foreign policy'. In it they state that it is not, or no longer, expedient for the US to support and protect present-day Israel. The documentary sheds light on both parties involved in the discussion: those who wish to maintain the strong tie between the US and Israel, and those who were critical of it and not infrequently became 'victims' of the lobby. The question arises to what extend the pro-Israel lobby ultimately determines the military and political importance of Israel itself. Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson (Colin Powell's former chief-of-staff) explains how the lobby's influence affects the decision-making structure in the White House.

With political scientist John Mearsheimer, neocon Richard Perle, lobby organization AIPAC, televangelist John Hagee, historian Tony Judt, Human Rights Watch director Kenneth Roth, colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, Democrat Earl Hilliard, Israeli peace negotiator Daniel Levy and investigative journalist Michael Massing.

The irony of it , that Harmen gets caught by wiretapping when she was such an advocate of the practice . Protect America from Al Qaida was the excuse , but did they ever find secret muslim operatives plotting nefarious schemes against the USA .. no, they found Israel doing it , they got this wiretapping thing all backwards. They are catching all the people that are 'supposed' to be your 'representatives' and 'allies' . Makes you wonder how supporters of a certain nation didn't make that list of potential terrorists like the one all those right wingers are on .

Cover ups of Israel agents spying in the USA is not something new... the only difference is that now internet exist and so, at least for informed people, these kind of things are coming out.

I wish the American people to be able to shake off the burden of the Israelian lobby, that would solve a lot of problems in your country and not only there.

reply to post by audas

Henry Kissinger - he is the very person who sold your entire nation down the road to support Israel - he is also the very person who formed the new world order.

Important point.
Here is more on Henry, the Kiss-enger of death. See associated articles at bottom of thread for more information. Why is this trash still around?
What are you to do with Traitors?

reply to post by harrytuttle

I agree, but I'll raise the stakes... What about the fact that this coming from the NSA wiretapping US Representatives? You see, many people LIKE that a US Rep is caught, but those same people don't realize how earth shattering this is - the NSA is spying on OUR US Representatives.

In all likelihood it was the Aipac official that was being monitored and the representative probably just walked into the operation.

[edit on 083030p://am3058 by masonwatcher]

Those who feel that Israel has always been a close friend to the USA should look up the story of the USS Liberty. Here's one of many: www.lewrockwell.com...

please check also article here:

www.indybay.org...

just a small part below:

"The United States government has been provided with concrete evidence that the Israeli Mossad and other Israeli intelligence services have been involved in a 13-month effort to "recruit" an Israeli-run, phony "al Qaeda cell" among Palestinians, so that Israel could achieve a frontline position in the U.S. war against terrorism and get a green light for a worldwide "revenge without borders" policy. The question: Does the United States have the moral fiber to investigate?"

and no one is even trying to disscuss the whole problem - look on the last UN meeting. the Israel power over US is incredible.

very good find OP. s and f

I know theres a intelligencia war on the ground right now in washington over this very event and others surrounding it. I know people in the CIA and NSA both are not going to just let this slide thats part of the turf war going on here. The FBI was given information about this case and I know the investigation into it was finished in 2005 they knew about it then and DOJ and FBI did nothing or were blocked I left before I found out where this lead to.

I know that the Ministry of Defense MI6 and MI5 have told washington if you think your going to get away with it we will shut down your government things like this have been going on for sometime. I know its not just harman though I know wolfwitiz was involved in this and for a bribe to keep his mouth shut and hide behind dipomatic immunity he took a job in the U.N. shortly after it happened.

Despite my clear disagreements with NSA and other agencies this happens to be one I side with them on because I know other things surrounding it. The NSA has a opperation so does DOD that they dont talk about hardly at all and its called a "Clean Sweep" operation. The last time a major one took place was in the panama invasion even though it was over drugs mostly the entire government was taken out in days and replaced with a new one.

I dont know of any evidence the NSA or other agencies have plans to conduct a Clean Sweep operation in the United States but if this keeps up it wouldnt shock me in the slightest to see it start to snowball in that direction. I was wondering when this was going to pop back into the news again.

The war continues

Viva la francia

Falcon

Originally posted by Desolate Cancer

What many people neglect to realize is that a very big portion of the support Israel receives from the US is not because of the Israelis but rather because of the Evangelical doomsaying, rapture wanting, apocalypse dreaming, christian right.


This simply FURTHER shows that the govt is serving special interests and not the US populace.

My father was a Baptist minister. so I was raised in the Evangelical thought train. I am no more, as I have learned too much. However, what you are saying is only partly correct. They are not doomsayers, they merely state what the Bible tells about the days we are in. You are correct that they think they will escape the bad times by rapture, even tho Christ himself stated, I think in Matthew 26:28 or thereabouts, that he was coming back AFTER 'these things', or the bad things. Noone is wanting the bad, but what will come after; truth, justice, peace. Believe it or not, even the Muslims teach that, but THEY are trying to start the wars to initiate the bad. Why? Looking for the later good. But, no excuse. A murduring 'Islamic' terrorist is still a murduring terrorist. There are no suicide bombing Baptists, in spite of what you are trying to imply.
When you are denigrating the Christian right, realize that you are including in your ridicule most of our founding forefathers. They did not demand freedom FROM religion, but the freedom to worship God, any way they saw fit.
Most of them do not know this, but well educated people in history have very plausible evidence to suggest that America, until the inundation by third world countries, is made up mostly of the lost tribes of Israel, and that Israel is made up from the tribe of Judah (Jew-dah), and also the tribe of Benjamin, who were mostly in Jerusalem when the other tribes were exiled. There were Jews/Judahs' who did end up with them, including the Merovingians who also ruled when they were freed. Lady Di's family has a crest of a 'rampant lion guiles', a red lion standing on two feet, the same as the banner from the tribe of Judah. Red is a royal color. America is prophesied in the Bible as a place that Abrahams descendents would end up, as a 'land divided by waters', as no other country or continent like America is. Colorado river, Mississippi, etc. Check out a global map.
Some think that America is 'Mystery Babylon', soon to be destroyed by fire, in one hour, by a coalition of China and Russia, and that all the world would hate her. Me, I don't think so. The Bible states it will be a 'city'. I think NY or Washington DC. Or possibly the Vatican. We'll witness it soon enough.

Originally posted by harrytuttle

I'll raise the stakes... What about the fact that this coming from the NSA wiretapping US Representatives?

You see, many people LIKE that a US Rep is caught, but those same people don't realize how earth shattering this is - the NSA is spying on OUR US Representatives.

You are assuming this was an unauthorized wiretap, aren't you?

If there is "probable cause" to believe someone is treasonous, does it matter if they're an 'elected official?' Is that a free ride?

If a Court authorized this wiretap, what is wrong with it? The fact that it nailed a dem? And who says it's NSA? I understand the FBI has a Co-intel program, too.

SPY!

jw

reply to post by Drexl


As they used to say, "Hoist on their own petards." ("OUCH!" I hope I never get hoisted by my petards!)

More often than not, our "representatives" believe that their immunity means it is OK to disregard, law, rights, and common sense ("What are you going to do about it?")

I'd swap the whole bunch out for some state reps and city council members right now.

No loss of "experience," and politicians more closely in touch with the electirate.

jw

reply to post by falcon


And to me this seems like it is the most reasonable explanation and I hinting to it in my original post. There are the people who have sold out to Israel and the people who have not and both groups are indeed in both parties. There are Republicans and Democrats who have sold out and I feel our intelligence agencies too have been compromised and that there is indeed an ongoing intelligence war right now. It just bugs me that we have to be at war with a so called ally which is why I say we dump Israel and lets dump Saudi Arabia while were at it.

I also noticed not one question was raised at the press briefing today about this issue which shows me once again the medias compliance in this. Instead they talked about whether Bush cronies would be prosecuted on torture. Im sorry but this issue to me seems much bigger.

reply to post by Gregarious


Actually your half right we have the freedom to worship who we want that is correct but we are also not to endorse any of the religions which is essentially what we are doing when we run policies based on revelations. I say this to everyone and Ill say it to you too. If you want a theocracy Iran is right up your alley but people like me dont. I dont care who or what you worship but dont expect me to live out your fairy tales ie revelations. Our founding fathers didnt want this and neither do I. No offense and this is nothing personal on your beliefs.

I believe Harman was under investigation and DoJ was asked to intervene; Gonzalez named her as a needed 'clean asset', so he killed the FBI's investigation into it and everything was placed under the rug. Seems that all the inner sanctums of the Agencies, including the higher echelon in Congress know about this but have kept it quiet.

The transcript has been verified by various sources and as it's part of a larger operation, backups would obviously exist as part of the operation.

Last night was the first I'd heard of it in the MSM; this might end up being a blowback for Israel, I have no problems with the Jews, their government and the Zionist movement are another story though.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It’s no secret that the Israeli Lobbies virtually run the nation. Rham Emanuel, White House Chief of Staff? The former head of Homeland Security a dual American and Israeli citizen?

The situation was obvious back in 1991 when George H. W. Bush refused billions of dollars in loan guarantees to build Israeli settlements on the occupied West Bank and the Israeli Lobbyists acted so aggressively and shamefully the Israeli Prime Minister had to make a public statement distancing him self from them and asking them to back off.

They did but oddly enough George H.W. Bush had the highest approval rating of any American President ever sitting when he vetoed the Loan Guarantees and 9 months later couldn’t even win reelection.

Israel is the bane of this nation and we should be calling for attacking it and not Iran.

Truth.

It isn't even really hidden, it is a pretty open arrangement.

OK. so who suspects this guy of being an Israeli agent? And who released the recording of this alleged conversation? How is a "suspected" Israeli agent going to "lobby" for anyone in the US?

Sounds like someone is so intent on accusing the Israelis (or maybe the Jews) of crimes, that he or she didn't check the facts or apply even the least amount of critical thinking to this propaganda. You're barking up the wrong conspiracy.