Religion has conditioned us that a one world government is bad

that was with regards to evil leaders, IE, Nero.

It is not suppose to be all governments.

But religion or no religion, I wouldn't take a mark from anyone in terms of the modern conspiracy view of it (chips, etc)

But in theory, isn't any form of patriotism a "mark" of a beast? maybe not the devil, but a nation at least.

So what defines it is simple viewpoint. Because back then, the mark of the beast was probably paganism and the religion of the emperor as a god.

Originally posted by TH3ON3
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

What's wrong with a one world government?

One is reminded of that long ago character on Saturday Night Live...The Church Lady, and how she might handle this thread, like this - Well, well, well, and what does your dragon avatar and your name mean? hmmm...could it be LUCIFER DRAGON FIRE...hmmm.

Amen sister!!!

Anytime you wanna add to the topic at hand, do feel free to do so. And no your statement is incorrect. Notice I was able to respond to your comment without any personal attacks. Funny how I have advocated a one world government, so I suppose in your mind I must be some sort of devil worshiper.

Originally posted by Mikeyy
How can you not be afraid of a "One World Government"?

There is the possibility for enormous good as well as the bad, are you happy the way things are? Thousands of years of War, Famine, much of this rooted in religious beliefs or racism.

One group of people, that rule over the enter planet's population? Sounds stupid to me. We already have enough corruption in Washington, The Posible corruption this could bring would be unthinkable.

Again If done correctly if could be just as good as bad.

Plus if they started making such brash laws that I could no longer take it, where will I go? I can't leave. Im a.... Prisoner?

You just described your current world.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus
Now you see why I don't do "organized" religion! I follow Jesus, NOT MAN! If ya wanna see scriptures on the "one world gov't" look no further than revelations chapter 13, verses 3,4,5,6,7,8,12,13,14,15,16,17 and 18. NOw, how many more scriptures do ya want to see? There are more in daniel, and I think Isaiah. Stop following man and start following God!

Originally posted by thewind
reply to post by ProfEmeritus

 

Now you see why I don't do "organized" religion! I follow Jesus, NOT MAN! If ya wanna see scriptures on the "one world gov't" look no further than revelations chapter 13, verses 3,4,5,6,7,8,12,13,14,15,16,17 and 18. NOw, how many more scriptures do ya want to see? There are more in daniel, and I think Isaiah. Stop following man and start following God!

Those verses are cryptic and open for interpretation. You are proving my point of this thread. I don't have a problem with your belief, I just have no desire to be forced to live by it.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Religion has conditioned us that a one world government is bad, But is it?

When we watch shows like Star Trek a one world government is a good thing as we pull all our resources and our collective energies into our collective goals, there is no division between race, religion, or culture, because we cease to be Americans or Brits, or Chinese and we will become just humans or Earthlings.

I was raised to believe that a one world government would be bad because it would be the anti-Christ that will rule this world and that soon after this rule our world as we know it will end. Now after years of study, research and discussions it seems to me that this is the old way of thinking and has it's roots in racism and even nationalism.

What say you?

OF COURSE it has it's roots in nationalism...

DO you realize that by referering to Star Trek...a TV show...you give one the impression that you are based in an "alternative" reality?



You can have my soveriegnty when you pry it from my cold,dead hands.

I am not religous and do not believe in the antichrist. and i think a NWO is bad.... how do you explain that?

reply to post by crmanager


Anything like "the Earth is the center of the universe" or young Earth creationism, or aliens are demons? yeah like this crap? And you have issues with my alternate reality lol?

Originally posted by Next_Heap_With
I am not religous and do not believe in the antichrist. and i think a NWO is bad.... how do you explain that?

The NWO is secret, I could support a one world government if it were out in the open, and we all vote for it.

It's impossible to make everyone do the same thing, except through things like:

• Trauma-based mind control
  
• Maintaining false conflicts, like "poverty," "terror," ETs, or even red vs. blue
  
• Stripping national, cultural and ethnic identity, likely through the abolition of war
  
• Making men worship other men, through "humanism" and socialism
  

reply to post by thewind

Now you see why I don't do "organized" religion! I follow Jesus, NOT MAN! If ya wanna see scriptures on the "one world gov't" look no further than revelations chapter 13, verses 3,4,5,6,7,8,12,13,14,15,16,17 and 18. NOw, how many more scriptures do ya want to see? There are more in daniel, and I think Isaiah. Stop following man and start following God!

You've proven my point. The TV ministers that I mentioned are the only ones I know that take revelations and make it into the NWO(other than perhaps some people that follow the phonies).
We believe that revelations has a much more spiritual meaning, regarding the soul, and materialism. Personally, I don't draw the conclusion that you do, that those verses have anything to do with a one-world government.

It is obvious, though, that YOU do, and perhaps you ought to take your own advice and stop following the kooks that are drawing that conclusion.

In addition, don't dare try to tell me what to do or not to do, regarding Jesus Christ, or are you one of the TV phonies?

reply to post by LDragonFire
No worries, for if you are a sinner, you won't be living, you'll be dead. Cast into the open pit and remembered no more.

reply to post by LDragonFire
Sorry for the 2 part reply here, but I forgot to address the scripture being encriptic as you said. Those scriptures point directly to a single man, who is worshipped by the world, and who has the other world leaders giving all their authorities to him. NOw, if he has "all" the power, all the gov'ts behind him, then rationally thinking, wouldn't that make him a global dictator, thus citing a "one world gov't"? I know what you're looking for in the bible, and you won't fidn it, you're looking for the words, "one world gov't". Mortal man has a hard time digesting things that don't suit his/her mindset, and that is usually based more on emotions than reality.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


[Well, I attend church every week, and have my entire life. I have never heard ANY comment one way or the other about a one world government at all in church, or in our church bulletins.]

Of course they dont preach or teach that in church ...they also quit teaching preaching end times events ...I have friends who attend church two or three times a week and get downright mad if I even mention anything end time related ..
So wonder why that is ..Since it is ALL IN THE BIBLE >...because mainline churchs are full of WOLVES and they want you all in the dark as does satan who is in alot of those men who run the churchs .....those wolves are in sheeps clothing and when the thief comes to steal and kill and destroy ..you wont have any warning ..because you did not pay attention to what was happening around you ,...(like the signs of the times ..which Jesus spoke of so many times it was unreal ) .................


Jesus even said what I say unto one I say unto ALL >>>WATCH >..
WATCH for what ? Watch for all the things we were warned would happen ..so you KNOW THAT IT IS NEAR (all that we was told to watch for ) ) ..

Yes alot of it is spiritual ...but certainly there is literal too ..since mankind is in the literal world ...and satan is about to become a literal being (when he lives through the man of sin or antichrist) and many things will literally take place on this earth that scripture says will take place .
Do not stick to close to just a spiritual meaning ..

Jesus literally walked the earth (and his kingdom is spiritual and is not of this world) ...satan will walk this earth in literal as well and his kingdom he will set up on this earth ..and will be a literal kingdom that is earthly (NWO) ...............Thats what is in progress right now ..satan is setting up his kingdom in the literal on earth while Jesus is setting up his in the spiritual ..

Originally posted by Gorman91
that was with regards to evil leaders, IE, Nero.

It is not suppose to be all governments.

It states that all forms of organization, regardless of how democratic or autocratic they may be at the start, will eventually and inevitably develop into oligarchies.

^ From Wikipedia. The Iron Law of Oligarchy counts for all organizations. Just to clarify, an Oligarchy is where the power rests in the hands of a few small elite.

To add to the topic, the reason I fear a one world government, is because you can sure as hell bet there will be corruption - its too much power in the hands of a few people. The bigger governments become, the worse (IMO)

Absolute power does seem to corrupt Absolutely.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by ShoopDaWhoop]

reply to post by Simplynoone

Of course they dont preach or teach that in church ...they also quit teaching preaching end times events ...I have friends who attend church two or three times a week and get downright mad if I even mention anything end time related .. So wonder why that is ..Since it is ALL IN THE BIBLE >...because mainline churchs are full of WOLVES and they want you all in the dark as does satan who is in alot of those men who run the churchs .....those wolves are in sheeps clothing and when the thief comes to steal and kill and destroy ..you wont have any warning ..because you did not pay attention to what was happening around you ,...(like the signs of the times ..which Jesus spoke of so many times it was unreal ) .................

That is, of course, the Fundamentalist point of view. Fundamentalism assumes that everything in the Bible is to be taken literally.
Arguing with Fundamentalists is a useless task. For them, the world was created in 6 days, and there is no debate possible. It extends to a rather narrow interpretation of all scripture, and of course, the book which is most susceptible to interpretation, Revelation.

There are at least 4 different schools of interpretation for Revelation.

i. The preterist: that it describes in veiled language events of John's own time, and until the end of the Roman empire or at least the conversion of Constantine. This has the disadvantage in that it is only meaningful then but to us it is not as relevant. The beast is seen as only the Roman empire and Babylon is Rome, however there are clear references to the Rome of John's time and it is helpful to know the circumstances of Johns time in interpreting the book. In Rev 1: 11 John is told "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea." hence in some ways it is similar to Paul's letters to the Romans, Corinthians, Colossians, Ephesians and Thessalonians. In both John's and Paul's letters God has chosen these to be preserved for His church throughout the centuries. Just as the letter to the Corinthians addresses specific problems they had then it also deals with these problems for future centuries. In the same way Revelation deals with the problems faced by the seven churches in Asia, but it also has a great deal to say to future generations. Because John uses symbolic imagery Revelation is not tied down to only the Roman empire but may also be used to described successive persecuting tyrannies down through the centuries. The next three methods of interpretation deal with the value of Revelation to future generations in different ways.

ii. The historicist: that it is a chart of the whole of history from Christ's first coming to his second, and beyond. In this method people will try to make sections of Revelation fit in with specific historical events. The beast is seen as the current manifestation of the beast such as the papacy in the time of the reformation. This position is untenable because there will be a wide variation of interpretations through the ages. But because the principles are valid to all generations, as the idealist would suggest, each generation should be able to identify the characters portrayed by Revelation. Therefore the historicists view should not be disparaged, it has provided comfort in times of persecution throughout church history. The most important of the historical interpretation from the 12th century to reformation times makes the papacy the beast and Rome or the Roman church is Babylon. However to make Revelation a chart of the whole of human history and therefore to use it to predict when the end will come is wrong and is not how John intended Revelation to be read, but to use it to strengthen God's people undergoing particular trials is a valid use.

iii. The idealist: that between messages for the first century and prophecies of the far future it deals chiefly with principles that are always valid in Christian experience. The beast is the Roman empire of John's day but also a succession of ungodly empires leading to the last empire from which the antichrist will come. Because Christians have been persecuted throughout the generations, each generation should be able to identify who their beast is.

iv. The futurist: that it is largely a prophecy of events still to come, especially just prior to the return of Christ. This is the normal interpretation of someone reading the book for the first time because its imagery looks so fantastic. It means that the book will be especially relevant for those in the last generation. The beast is seen as the antichrist who emerges from a revived Roman empire. It is clear that the second coming features prominently throughout the book and therefore there is truth in the futurist view, but this view tends to overlook spiritual truth that is of value today. However note that John is told not to seal up the book (Rev 22:10) because the time is near, although Daniel was told to seal up the vision until the end times (Dan 12:4), this means that the book is about to start its fulfilment. The book of Revelation was written initially to the seven churches in Asia, and hence the preterist view. However the book will reach it final fulfilment when the last antichrist appears and Christ returns this is the futurist view. Ladd divides the futurist views into two kinds, the moderate and the extreme view known as dispensationalism. The latter makes a sharp distinction between Israel and the church, the letters to the seven churches deal with seven ages of church history, chapter 7 onwards concerns Israel because the church has been raptured by this point so that it does not suffer in the great tribulation which occurs during the last 3 and a half years of history. This view is widely held in America, the best exponent of this view is Walvoord.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


I dont know that I believe in 6 day creation ..I think the earth ...the battle of good and evil ...satan and the men of old or men of reknown could very well have been living outside of the garden ...possibly for eons ..and that could be where the dinosuars roamed ..........and the old bones of men that people have found ..could very well be the bones of all those men of old ...(children of the Nephalim ) ...........and they could have been living outside of that garden .........the garden itself is a protected place in the East of Eden ...it does not say the whole world was that garden ..just an area of the world was ..........it could even be possible that Eden was another dimension even outside of this earth until the fall of Adam and Eve ....
I think the garden itself could have been created in 6 days ...and the surrounding area is way older than that ...I think it is even possible that there was huge gaps in the times between creation ...................
Personally I dont care to really study that ...since I like to study more about who the Lord Jesus was and who God is and what is mans purpose ..and what is after this etc ....the time of creation is not really important to me ..........so I am not real sure of any of it ...


And I am also familiar with the different views of the end times ..
I believe many things have happened before ..but will happen again (nothing new under the sun) and some things in prophecy have already taken place but not completely fulfilled yet ................and some things are to hard for us to understand (like the mysteries of God) ......including the rapture etc ..
It all fascinates me and I dig as much as I can into all of it ...I am always learning and reading and studying it all for myself and I form my own views now ...(have not visited a church in at least 15 years if not longer) .....
I read alot of opinions on Babylon,The wars that are supposed happen in the end times ...the antichrist etc ...and I am not quite ready yet to have a complete picture of how it will all come down yet ....everyday I study and read and pray on it and dream about it and meditate on it ..the more I LEARN .................

I am still open to some end times events as what they mean and where it is going ..and what the outcome will be ...because as you know Rev....Daniel and Is.And Jeremiah and Zech etc are not real easy books to interpret ..
And if we understood it all like we wanted to ...it could scare us so bad we may not want to know ..

I had a dream one time ..and it was about the end of the world ...it bothered (scared) me so bad ...I prayed and asked the Lord not to tell me that stuff or show me that stuff again ....later I wanted to know more so I changed my mind ......and I started having dreams again ...............
But for sure some of what I thought I wanted to know ..I really did not want to know it .......
Sort of like when your mate is having an affair ..and you really think you want to know if its true or not ..but once you find out it is true ...you wish you hadnt asked for proof ...and wished you didnt have to know that they did in fact have an affair .........
Same goes with the end times ..I know I need to know it ..but sometimes I am sorry I know it .....because it really scares me for mankind and what is coming ......and the stuff happening in the world now really makes it even worse because now the signs are all over the place that whatever is coming isnt going to be good and many many are not going to make it through it all ......possibly even me ...



[edit on 22-4-2009 by Simplynoone]

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by ProfEmeritus
Um, no I am not one of those tv phonies, and yes it is my job as a follower of Jesus to get out the word and sow the seed, for if I don't, then "YOUR" blood is on my hands. Now that I have gotten out the word to you and others, it's all up to ya'll now!

reply to post by ProfEmeritus
If you have read the bible, then you'd have seen the scriptures where it said that 1000 years to man is a day to God, and vice versa? So, God could have worked on the earth 1 day, done something else for a thousand years, and came back and worked on the earth again for another day, and so on and so forth. God has NO timetable. God created night and day for man to have something to go by in accordance to record his own history and a calendar to establish the celebrated holy days.