Garden of Eden: Why do we buy this?

First of all, obviously I have a problem with religion. I find some good in the bible. Mostly, IMO, its common sense stuff and there might be some historical fact to some events. However, there also seem to be some very destructive aspects. Especially, when you have such an obvious control tactic such as the Garden of Eden story in the bible. So many people think this is a wonderful story of how we were created. All I see is a complete opposite to what our creator wants for us. It is, in my opinion, a blatant masked attempt to destroy the nature of the feminine AND our ability to transcend the physical all in one fell swoop. Women for many centuries now have taken this to heart it seems and that guilt sticks in there generation after generation. When in fact, a woman, according to this story, was the first person to actually think FOR THEMSELVES. "Come here Adam. You gotta try this!" So what does the church do? Drives them out of "paradise" and blames them for the fall of man. Ridiculous. We cannot think for ourselves and we can't be equal as a species. This inherently puts religion in complete perspective for me.

I wish I could post all of feelings on this, but that's a lot of typing.

Here are some key points for me.

1. The Garden of Eden, if you don't take it as a metaphor, is kind of a silly story. If you read it like you would a story from Aesop's Fables, it is a lot more of what I believe was meant to be conveyed.

2. Man (as in the species) has always been granted free will from the Creator. Man has always been able to think for themselves. It wasn't a new thing that Eve came up with.

3. The "church" didn't drive them out of "paradise" according to the story. Your reference to the church seems like a pointy stick aimed at the Catholic Church. They didn't come up with this story. It is part of the Hebrew Bible.

4. Women have received the brunt of a lot of punishment for their inherited role as Eve according to this story. It is unfortunate. As many places in the Bible (Old and New Testaments) as women are raised up, there are as many beating them down.

Maybe more later.

Well, firstly, it is important to realize that the Abrahamic religions, all three of them, are very patriarchical in nature. I mean, there is no better evidence of this than the Islam and Catholic faith. One of the main sticking points of both of these religions is the submission of women.

Now, with that being said, the bible is a rather symbolic and archaic book. Few read it and truly understand it. Sure, there are many who claim to copmprehend it, but any in depth discussion with them proves that they have a cursory, at best, understanding of it.

reply to post by dtice


Yes, Eve was the first of the two in the garden to eat the fruit but, God told them not to eat it. That's why they were thrown out of the Garden, God wasn't trying to be a control freak or something like that.

It's important to understand why the Garden was created and the specialness of it as well. Adam and Eve, and thereby all men, were created to have fellowship with God. In the Garden, God actually dwelt among men. Once Adam and Eve sinned, God had to banish them from where he was dwelling due to their new tainted, less than perfect, state. [An example of man needing to be perfect to come to God is shown in the high priests ritual on Yom Kippur. The high priest was allowed to go into the Most Holy Place once per year. It was in this most Holy Place that God dwelled. Before the high priest could enter this room, he had to sacrifice a bull to make himself pure.]

It also seems that they weren't necessarily thrown out do to Eve eating the fruit but, Adam. They would've been punished because Adam was the head of the family [throughout the Bible, men are viewed as being the leaders of the family] and ultimately, Adam's sin is what brought sin into the human race. In fact, there is a verse in the New Testament that says it's because of Adam, not Eve, that sin entered the human race, I forget the reference but it more or less goes:

For as sin entered the world through one man, and death by sin...

reply to post by dtice


Once you buy "I will go to heaven when I die and those who do not believe will perish" you will buy anything. It's a "free" gift many find hard to pass.

After that, it's easy.

Believers are like compulsive shoppers in the Bible store, not all, but many

Im so sick with this whole "problem with religon" thing thats spreading around. Dont you realize that cristianity isnt a magical religon like other religons, more its a metaphorical history of how we become imprissoned on the earth. I theorize that in the beginning we were super intellectual and among the gods themselves in the heavens, but our species being so flawed, became to greedy and overall a threat to the rest of the universe so "God" shunned us to earth and probably mind-wiped us as a diplomatic move of preserving our species and removing the treat that we possesed. However its becoming much to obvious with the destruction we are causing our very planet how destructive we used to be whilst umong gods, i dont know if we will ever be freed from temptation, its just to appealing to us for some reason. Im becoming sidetracked, back on subject, most everything in the bible is true, but not in exact context. Most is disguised alien encounters and experiences that has shaped us over the millenia. If you have a problem with the bible in a spiritual context, ok no sheisse, its not the right religon for you, try toaism or wicca or somthing oldworld as these are the powerfull religons often looked down upon in western society today. Sorry for spelling errors, bear with me commrades. I hope to have cleared some of the haze about the garden of eden if not, i tried...

The "Garden of Eden" is, just like many other stories and events in the Bible, based on the much older Sumerian Creation-legends. "The Garden" was merely the colony the Sumerian Creator-gods (Annunaki) sat up when they arrived, and the place where they put their creation - Man.

Regarding the banishing in the Garden, it was not really because of Eve, but supposedly(But not confirmed) when Enkil came to the Garden and explained to them that they could have knowledge, if they wanted to. In a way, you could call Enkil the "Good Guy", and He was also the original Creator, as he was the one that according to the legends, created Man by crossbreeding.

People often go on about how the Bible and Quran "subjugate" women and place them in inferior roles, but this attitude really just betrays a lack of understanding of the times.

When these books were written, women were nothing more than pieces of property. They could be bought, sold, traded and abused as their husbands saw fit. The writings of Muhammed and St Paul were highly progressive for their time, and actually afforded women rights and privileges that they had never known prior to their writings' existence.

To judge the content of these documents by modern enlightened standards is wildly errant, in my humble opinion.

Originally posted by dtice
When in fact, a woman, according to this story, was the first person to actually think FOR THEMSELVES.

We cannot think for ourselves and we can't be equal as a species. This inherently puts religion in complete perspective for me.

Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that
thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me,
and I did eat.

Beguile = Nasha in the Hebrew
www.eliyah.com...

5377 nasha' naw-shaw' a primitive root; to lead astray, i.e. (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce:--beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.

It has two meanings and the second one was the sin in the garden. Not eating apples and thinking for herself.

It was the Beguiling (SEDUCING) of the serpent, that set his seed on this planet through Cain.

originally posted by Nightchild

Regarding the banishing in the Garden, it was not really because of Eve, but supposedly(But not confirmed) when Enkil came to the Garden and explained to them that they could have knowledge, if they wanted to. In a way, you could call Enkil the "Good Guy", and He was also the original Creator, as he was the one that according to the legends, created Man by crossbreeding.

Here's yet further confirmation of the same. Sumer legends, left by the likes of Enkil, (The Serpent) for those who wish to think the Origins of this tale begin here. (Which of course they did not!).

So do not simply believe, Women, (Eve) did nothing more than think for herself. It was a whole lot more Procreative than that!

Ciao

Shane

Just remember man is created AFTER everything else. The Garden of Eden is the answer to the scientific viewpoint of evolution which of course has a missing link. Perhaps God simply designed everything through evolution that was not modern man, and he knew evolution couldn't account for the intelligence we would develop, so he simply finished the process Himself by creating the Garden and then they lost their paradise. The Garden of Eden will be worldwide after the End of Days and all who are righteous will be resurrected. There is no heaven and hell to where we die. We simply die like science says. That's in the Bible. People simply are dead and not conscious. That is why Christ taught about the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. That is the Heaven we go to. To really really die is to be cast into eternal torment after judgment, which comes during the Messiah's Kingdom.

If you were evil and would be doing evil things, then how do you expect that "paradise" to stay a "paradise"? Wouldn't your very presence mean that such a paradise couldn't exist?

How can a man who steals expect to live in a world with no theft? How can a man who kills expect to live in a world with no murder?

Truth is, you were removed to protect the innocent people who are weren't evil. So that they could keep their paradise and so you don't ruin it.

Pretty much the same reason we have to have governments on this planet. If there were no evil, then by default you don't need it, you don't need police and so forth. But because there is evil present, you have to have those things for "protection". And a "paradise" society would have to do the same thing if you were in it. Why make all those who are not evil suffer your lessons?

You can blame others all day long if you want, doesn't make much difference. It's not like mankind couldn't have created our own paradise, but instead we do evil things.

Kind of like the tower of babel. Sure it sounds bad at first, but why was it done? To protect the rest of life and such "out there". If we had been allowed to roam the stars and such, we would have warred and tried to enslave other alien races because it's in our nature. We were only united on earth because we were all alike, same culture, same language etc. As soon as we had differences with each other, we start warring and enslaved each other. Nobody forced us to start doing that, but only goes to prove what we would have done to others in the first place, and why it was done.

Originally posted by dtice
First of all, obviously I have a problem with religion. I find some good in the bible. Mostly, IMO, its common sense stuff and there might be some historical fact to some events. However, there also seem to be some very destructive aspects. Especially, when you have such an obvious control tactic such as the Garden of Eden story in the bible. So many people think this is a wonderful story of how we were created. All I see is a complete opposite to what our creator wants for us. It is, in my opinion, a blatant masked attempt to destroy the nature of the feminine AND our ability to transcend the physical all in one fell swoop. Women for many centuries now have taken this to heart it seems and that guilt sticks in there generation after generation. When in fact, a woman, according to this story, was the first person to actually think FOR THEMSELVES. "Come here Adam. You gotta try this!" So what does the church do? Drives them out of "paradise" and blames them for the fall of man. Ridiculous. We cannot think for ourselves and we can't be equal as a species. This inherently puts religion in complete perspective for me.

It's Because people want to believe that there is more to life than what is obvious. I guess people need to believe in some sort of life after death so they are not petrified by the thought of death

reply to post by dtice


The story of Eden is metaphorical for the transition of man to free will through sentience; human's awareness of their own existence and the consequences of their actions.

Once one is aware of the consequences of their actions, they can longer do something they know is wrong without it being "sinful."

Sentience, consciousness, and conscience are great gifts, if anything Eve should be exalted as a great literary heroine. Supposedly, without her we would never have been aware of the consequences of our actions, and therefor not capable of doing good.

Only a person who secretly hates or fears women would see Eve as responsible for individual sin, vs giving the gift of being able to know good and evil, and choose for themselves.

The "fall of man" simply means that once humans are aware of the consequences of their actions, they must also hold the blame for their actions, and are held accountable. This is a natural progression of sentience, and would apply to any species. If women are responsible for sentience, they should add that to their list of great achievements. After all, it really is better to be painfully aware than to be blissfully ignorant, for knowledge grants the power to change.