SEAL report on what realy happened!

reply to post by Ismail


If what you have said is true..then why is it in every single one of the insurections that has taken place in Africa, why is it as soon as they gain independence from the 'Evil West' do they immediatly start masacreing there own people and have problems of mass genocide? Since the west is the problem and they have been driven out, why is it that as soon as the SHTF there, they expect us to render aid and when it shows up its left to rot on the ships and on the docks of these same ' now civilised ' countries!. Yes, blame the west for the original problem of there foolish tribal warfare that was quelled while the west was there! Its you that is ignorant here.

Zindo

reply to post by Ismail

I'm not racist, and don't understand what your claims have to do with the thread. You seem to be saying that piracy, the subtopic at hand is somehow justified.

To point out the history and current catastrophies that are Rhodesia (formerly the Pearl of Africa), South Africa (formerly a very peaceful, prosperous country) Somalia, Sudan, Kenya, Angola, the Congo. Since 1960, there have been 20 major civil wars in Africa.

Piracy is not justified. The acts of other nations to prevent piracy are justified.

To suggest that nations such as Somalia have been looted by the West is still no excuse for piracy.

In truth, the West went in, found raw materials, paid for the rights to develop extractions of those raw materials, and when it starts getting good, they were kicked out. But the knuckleheads in-country can't maintain the equipment, can't run the operation, and can't fight off other knuckleheads who demand their part of the action.

No, piracy is not a justification for anything.

Ever.

The answer to both of your questions is so simple, I'm wondering why you can't grasp this for yourselves. Just because governements change, the land still belongs to the mutinationals. They corrupt the governements that are willing, and overthrough the others. You both need to read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman". Why can't you understand that poverty leads to violence and wars ?

I'm seeing a rather frightening right wing bias here...bordering on overt racism...

Thankfully the majority of Americans realised the err of their ways and , although it took 2 terms, it has changed for the better.

It now has a President who has realised the States was being taken down the wrong path by the RepubliKans, and he has charted a new course...humanity being the centrepiece...good luck to him i say...a wolf in sheeps clothing??Maybe..making all the right noises??Absolutely..

The colonisation of Africa and the oppressive management of its peoples may well have given dooper and co the illusion that all was good(and "peaceful and prosperous"...but only for the small minority,of which i was a part, the vast majority suffered in hell...)but,i assure you, with first hand experience, it was not..

Doopers indirect support for Apartheid in SA speaks volumes for his position in this regard...
Whilst the rest of the world imposed sanctions, such was SA's unacceptable behaviour, dooper points out incorrectly that the country was peaceful and prosperous....both of which are a lie.

I suggest Dooper sticks to what he knows...Africa NOT being one of them...

I agree with this assessment of the on-the-scene facts hampering the Commanders from making bold decisions.

We, America, are now attempting to proscute a war run by attorneys! Every combat decision must be reviewd by political analysts before action can take place. Ridiculeous!!!

We are doomed to failure. We are now the victims of our "cowardly" analysts who are very afraid of harming anything in war!
Civilians, posing as terrorists, pirates, plunderers, religious proscuters of jhiad, are simply COMBATANTS. Shoot to kill, take no prisoners, and if any survive, treat with extreme prejudice and irritation!

Let's keep the enemy understanding one simple fact: Death and Destruction of their homes, persona, family, infrstructure will result in a violent combat exchange. We Win they lose!!!!

It worked well in World War II.

reply to post by benoni


I was wondering how long it would take for someone without a valid argument to resort to the R word.

It is true that a small majority decided to punish the Republicans for their spending habits, but I can assure you with the current Congress and Administration, we are much worse off. And a lot of those who voted to punish the Republicans are painfully gnashing their teeth.

The change of direction you refer to is certainly a change in direction, but we just jumped off a cliff - not a very good move.

Oh! We've changed direction alright! Straight down! And we haven't hit bottom yet! Far from it.

Hey, to the casual observer, it would appear that the Rhodesia and South Africa of 1975, was far more prosperous, with better health and safety, generated much greater business, accumulated much greater wealth, and maintained a high degree of financial stability.

Only one question. What's changed between then and now?

I rest my case.

LOL. Small majority? You mean like the one that elected Bush?
the only gnashing I see is the Republican party that is imploding with all the subtlety of a black hole.

Originally posted by Ismail

... historically closer to us is the american invasion of 1993. Follows an exerpt from an article written in "The Times", on the 18 th of march 1993

You are being puposely deceitful. Citing a 16-year old L.A. Times piece on the George H.W. Bush administraion's aid efforts to the Somalis only betrays your bias.

The "Race and History" opinion series, and the contributions of its author, Fineman, have been thoroughly discredited by history and fact.

His (and your) reliance on "unnamed sources" is only the tip of the icegerg. Even the unnamed experts agree (from part of your article you omitted):

most oil experts outside Somalia laugh at the suggestion that the nation ever could rank among the world's major oil producers

www.raceandhistory.com...

The prospect of oil is worthless. Conoco pulled all of its equipment out BEFORE Amercian troops arrived in 1993 to assist in humanitasrian aid!

If there are any Somali oil reserves at all, they are offshore, where no American companies have any rights over any other nation.

The 1993 Aid mission (you dishonestly call it an "invasion") was terminted during Clinton's administration during his failed foreign policy half-efforts, effectivley leaving American soldiers and investments at the mercy of Somali warlords.

You overlook that since the 1950's, Western investment had been sought and encouraged by indigenous peoples. It was not "rape," and it was not exploitation!

These people have no liberty to export their own natural ressources.

Through their OWN fault and lack of ability to act as a nation.

Since the "natives" have no ressources to export, and therefore are living in profound poverty, they willingly accept to become the slaves to YOUR comfort, just to feed their families. They work 10 hours a day and are payed next to nothing by the rapicious vultures who made your "great country" great.

Completely false. American companies and American government do no such things in Africa. We were partners in the 1950s with duly empowered governments in the region and worked in the development of natural resources that had been neglected and wasted. When these governments realized the bounty they could reap AT THEIR OWN PEOPLE'S EXPENSE, the industries were nationalized and assets confiscated.

Zimbabwe used to produce more than enough food for itself and its neighbors. Until it forced out the prosperous farmers. Now, the country is a starving wasteland. Done-in all by themselves!

Which leads to famine and war.

Of their own creation!

Point made.

The only point made is that you believe 16 year-old L.A.T. unsubstantiated propaganda, and try to pass it off as "history."

Try to find a real account of the history of the region, and you will see for yourself you have made no points whatsoever and have lost credibility by posting falsehoods as fact.

Deny ignorance!

jw

[edit on 24-4-2009 by jdub297]

sorry..double accidental post!!
2nd

[edit on 24-4-2009 by benoni]

dooper..
OK, its official...you are indeed a comedian!!

Heres why, just from your last post.....

1."It is true that a small majority decided to punish the Republicans for their spending habits"....
No...the only age group that mccain won was in the 65+ , the rest he lost to...and to believe "aspending habits"were to blame...well, were do you live??Spending I'm afraid didnt even feature...lets just say a cockeyed moral compass played a part and we'll leave it there...

2."Oh! We've changed direction alright! Straight down! And we haven't hit bottom yet! Far from it. "
Wrong again. The morass you find yourself in now began under dubya....a bankrupt economy, 2 needless wars etc...do you really believe it began last November??!!

3."Hey, to the casual observer, it would appear that the Rhodesia and South Africa of 1975, was far more prosperous, with better health and safety, generated much greater business, accumulated much greater wealth, and maintained a high degree of financial stability. "
My personal fave....1975?? 1975?? Was this a typo??HAHA...you go back to 1975 to "rest your case"??

America was quite happy frollicking and covorting with Saddam in 1975....great pals infact...
...but as we all know a lot of water can pass under the old bridge in 35(35 !!) years...so yeah, thanks for the giggle, case closed, you win etc etc....

So your a casual observer when called out, and an expert all the other times....

For a casual observer(as you refer to yourself..) you sure do make a lot of very opinionated noise

As for your final "whats changed" Q.....
Well.........in 35 years....quite a lot.

Incidentally,I noticed the poster above this also thinks your funny!!

[edit on 24-4-2009 by benoni]

Originally posted by Ismail

Just because governements change, the land still belongs to the mutinationals. They corrupt the governements that are willing, and overthrough the others. You both need to read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman".

Your reliance on Perkins' "Confessions" is completely misplaced and inapt.
The piracy issue has nothing to do with globalization and infrastructure development contracts.

"Multinationals" are the solution to all problems according to many in the BHO administration, the EU, UK and even "third world" countries.

Instead of baseless statements, point to facts as proof of 'ownership.' There are none.

Deny ignorance.

jw

reply to post by benoni


Obama won by a narrow margin of the popular vote. The conservatives, upset for not having anyone to vote for, repaid the Republican Party. They punished the Republican Party for nominating a part-time liberal.

Conservatives were also very upset at the Republicans for spending like previous Democrats, and were reinforced to punish the Republicans.

Now that the current Marxist Administration, House, and Senate have put us into the hole to the tune of about $13 Trillion, it won't take much to swing the pendulum back the other way.

I used 1975 as an arbitrary measure. Other nations of the world, except a few in Africa have advanced on every measure I mentioned. Except North Korea.

You see, backwards people - go backwards!

If you continue to degrade and go backwards over a 34 year period, you must be completely stupid, or completely incompetent.

a 35 year old benchmark is a strange choice, which hardly strengthens your case, which believe me, needs strengthening!!

Your country was once seen as a Beacon of all things considered good....no more.

Now,speaking on behalf of the majority of the world, this is no longer the case...what with its failures across many spheres and theatres of war...not to mention its abuses....

Trust me....over the period of 35 years lots has changed on the Dark Continent, both positive and negative...

I could argue the USA has gone massively backwards...

does that mean its people are backwards too, using your analogy....or does that only apply to "others"\blacks??

reply to post by TrustMeImaSalesman


For those of you supporting delay and fear of action, the Captain's own words speak volumes:

"U.S. Captain Gave Up Hope of Escaping Pirates Alive"

The U.S. ship captain who was taken hostage by gun-toting Somali pirates said ... he did not think he would live through his captivity on a lifeboat set adrift.

Richard Phillips, captain of the cargo ship Maersk Alabama, ... credited the U.S. Navy, which shot dead three of the pirates, for saving him.

"I didn't think I'd ever get out of that boat," Phillips said. "These SEALs and the Navy did an impossible job. They're unbelievable people. We really owe it to the military for what they do day-in and day-out that we never even hear about."

"I was in deep trouble from day one, so it didn't change for me," he said regarding his position after a failed escape attempt.

www.reuters.com...

Bottom line, Captain Phillips' life was in jeopardy from the start as Obama assessed his political options! Obama is a socialist, racist, coward.


Deny ignorance!

jw


[edit on 25-4-2009 by jdub297]

[edit on 25-4-2009 by jdub297]

reply to post by jdub297


The good Capt. is giving his first personel interview. It will be interesting to watch and hear what he saw happen. It will air on April 28 on the Today show. Although I'm not a big fan of Matt Lauer, I'll probably watch. The more we see and hear about this, it looks thatthe SEAL info is closer to the truth than the MSM is telling us!

Zindo

I work on the SEAL base "little Creek" in Virginia Beach, VA and I can tell you from first hand knowledge that the SEAL's never, never, "Kiss and Tell!!"

reply to post by benoni


Yep. The US has gone massively backwards since about 1976.

From the world's leading Republic based on the principles of Democracy for almost 200 years, to our current state - a Marxist Facist state.

I understand we're so far left, that they're going to tear the wing off the right hand side of the building, and add it on the left side of the building.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Man that is one sweet piece of denying ignorance. Citing television police shows. How the heck can anyone beat that?

reply to post by ZindoDoone


I wonder what "really happened" to the 30K that's gone missing from the life boat the pirates used for their getaway vessel. You know, the one the SEALs were the first ones to board and search?

Navy officials tell NBC News that Phillips reportedly took the cash from the ship's safe and handed it over to the pirates who then took the money along with Captain Phillips aboard one of the ship's lifeboats in an effort to escape.

Navy officials say the SEALs would have thoroughly searched the lifeboat for any weapons, explosives or evidence immediately after the rescue, but at this point it's not clear they discovered the money, or if they turned it over as evidence once they were back on board the U.S. warships.

source

You can see the out being set up if the money is recovered in the second paragraph excerpted above. "Oh, you mean that money? In all the excitement, we gave it to Lt. S0-and-so on the U.S.S. Such-and-such." Aren't creative financing and plausible alibis part of advanced training?

ROE pains....

It's one thing to consider the political fallout of one's actions. It's another to try and put the battlefield on hold while you take a vote.

As for these events - people must realize the the MSM is about the only outlet we get. What they bother to report is all we can really know. Some smaller sources will dig in a little deeper and give you a bulleted breakdown of the full reports (where available) - but many don't go that far. The full reports are often available to the public (write a request to have a copy delivered - make those secretaries worth their tax dollars) - but few people care to request/read them.

This explains many of the 'gaps' people find so suspect around here. Details the MSM didn't bother covering, and people expecting the 20-second news report to cover everything there is to know.

It's Obama's character to distance himself from something touchy like a rescue operation then allow the idea to prevail that he had something to do with its success. It's the story of the man's life. He doesn't directly steal credit... he just places himself in a position so that blame falls away from him, and credit falls to him.

The problem is that it's a very passive stance in a position that requires action and decision. You need someone willing to drive their point home.

Even now - his administration operates the same way. Congress and the Democratic party are responsible for most of the changes being brought about - Obama is just along for the ride. However, he acts as the figurehead. When things go wrong - investigations will turn up the fingerprints of Congress and appointed positions. If things go well - no one cares to look further than the smiling face.

That aside - the problem with piracy in Africa is a product of their culture and economy. You can either struggle to survive - or become an armed escort for the ships in the region (it's sort of a "let us protect you.... or who knows what these trigger-happy teens will use these deck-guns for" sort of setup - and of course, the different warlords compete for 'customers' and territory)... it's a no-brainer.

That said - our attempts at social aid have been pathetic, at best. Rather than working to establish a functional economy - the aid programs have, by enlarge, only served to tighten the grip of warlords in the area.

A complete suspension and revision of the aid programs is recommended - but the ignorant liberals who think it's doing some good will throw a fit and a half about it.

If anything - the aid programs need to be restructured to resemble our actions in Germany, Japan, and Korea following World War II. We should take an advisory standpoint and employ them to build their own infrastructure and economy. Obviously - military involvement will likely be necessary to keep warlords from throwing too many monkey wrenches into the works. However - the focus needs to be on developing a companion economy as opposed to building houses and schools. Help them develop a means of economic support and independence - and homes, schools, and industry will soon follow.

As it stands now - our aid programs are nothing but dumping money into an economic singularity.

And as for the liberals versus conservatives..... we both have our places - the problem is we won't shut up and take our places. We're more concerned with pointing fingers at each other than we are with accomplishing goals.

There is still plenty of racism - not in the form of "you're black, go away" - but in the form of social identities. Blacks still identify themselves as black - which is a rather obvious fact - but many have yet to identify themselves - really - as Americans. Similarly - a number of Americans fail to identify themselves as American. They may get up and sing the song "proud to be an American" - or they may say "I'm an American" - but this does not make it so. It doesn't mean they really behave as part of the team - it doesn't mean they are on board.

Similarly, too many people identify themselves as conservative or liberal before identifying themselves as Americans. Its all well and good to identify yourself - but you have to keep your identities in perspective......

Is it better to be a liberal/conservative.... or an American? Is it better to be black/white/hispanic/hispanic .... or an American?

We don't have to be communists or socialists to put our heads and hands together to make things happen. In fact - it doesn't matter what we are... capitalists, communists, fascists, etc ... if we're not in it together... then nothing is going to happen.

We need to stop thinking idealistically and start thinking functionally. What works - and what doesn't. What are we willing to work with/for... and what aren't we....

Ideals can govern our personal actions and decisions. Functionality should govern our collective actions and decisions (legislation).

There - my response to what I've seen in this thread, in a nutshell.