Electrical Weather

Im going to post to say I am going to add those other explanations, like cloud, rain and hail, aswell as earthquakes, but I have been severely hungover this weekend and really haven't been in the mood.

Astynax, re-read your posts, you haven't once actually stated what the problem that you have with this theory, by the looks of it, you don't even know the theory (I'll ask again, have you even read the thread?!), you just seem to be passing it over as in your perspective, it just isn't an important factor with how you believe the weather and indeed the universe to 'work'.

Thats fine, but it isn't getting the thread ANYWHERE, take a leaf out of phage's book, he doesn't agree with EU (or this weather 'theory') either, but he actually attempts to further the thread and try and inform by actually arguing his point, not just repeating the same thing over and over again.

Please, state problems or just leave, your not helping anyone and your looking like a child being told Santa doesn't exist, you just won't accept evidence.

I'm not saying Squiz has proven EU or this weather theory by any stretch, but any problem you have had, he has answered, with EVIDENCE to support it, look for some yourself, its definitely out there.

Again, I will be addig more info, but I'm still recovering, lol.

EMM

P.s. thanks for joining in Squiz, you know far more about this stuff than I do.

I'd rather be reading a thread of yours about this, than writing mine, but I am learning as I go so it's always useful.

reply to post by zerotensor

There are several theories about the mechanism for the charge separation in clouds but the primary cause is, as you said, the mechanical interaction of water droplets and ice particles within the cloud. It is similar to rubbing a piece of wool on a plastic rod to develop a static charge. The transfer of electrons in this manner is not a current. In order for there to be current, there must be a flow of charges through a conductor.

Under definition one, ELECTRIC CURRENT EVENTS occur whenever positive charges flow through negative charges, or when negative charges flow through positive charges.

www.eskimo.com...

Your quote says nothing about cloud formation. Charged particle precipitation refers to the formation of charged particles within the upper atmosphere. It is the formation of the particles which causes the heating, not a flow of particles and it has nothing to do with precipitation in the sense of rain or snow. As your quote says, it occurs in the thermosphere, the limit of our atmosphere. This is far higher than any weather occurs, there are no clouds in the thermosphere. As I said, any direct effects upon weather by the thermosphere (of which the ionosphere is part) are unlikely.

Here's some evidence supporting the electrical origin of Tornadoes.
Sorry for all the science jargon, but most should get the general idea.

Electric Currents Accompanying Tornado Activity.
adsabs.harvard.edu...

Measurements of the magnetic field and earth current in the vicinity of a tornado show large step-like deflections coincident with the touching down of the funnel. Calculations with a simple current model indicate that a minimum current of several hundred amperes must be postulated to account for the observed deflection in magnetic field. The existence of a steady current of 225 amperes for a period of about 10 minutes provides joule heat at the rate of approximately 1010 joules per second, and involves a total charge transfer of 135,000 coulombs. The calculations imply that a tornado is electrically equivalent to several hundred isolated thunderstorm cells active simultaneously.

On the geo-electromagnetic aspects of tornado initiation
adsabs.harvard.edu...

The reasoning that joule heating in multiple-stroke lightning flashes associated with an active tornado constitutes the major energy source for its drive is questioned. An electrical discharge is proposed as a mechanism for the formation of the initial vortex sink, a high specific-energy source being supplied by Joule heating in a leader-stroke coronal discharge of several hundred amperes and milliseconds duration. Magnetic pinch effects are invoked as a means of preventing large lateral heat losses from the ionised column and a resulting degradation of the energy source. Applying the equation for magneto-hydrostatic balance, it is shown that magnetic pinch exerted on the column by the current-induced magnetic field alone is insufficient to achieve balance and thus prevent energy losses. Qualitative arguments are used to demonstrate that the pinch effect can be enhanced through the interaction with the external, geomagnetic field. Observational evidence is presented to support the hypothesis of geomagnetic control for tornado initiation on a global scale. It is seen in large differences of tornado frequency between regions on the surface of the Earth featured by comparable pre-requisite thunderstorm frequency but significant differences in geomagnetic intensity which qualitatively agree with the predicted effect.

Electrical Discharges and Intense Vortices
adsabs.harvard.edu...

In this paper we consider the axisymmetric flow field generated in a semi-infinite viscous incompressible fluid by an electric current discharge in the presence of a line vortex which coincides with the axis of the discharge. The system is supposed to be bounded by a fixed plate which is perpendicular to the line vortex. A similarity solution is constructed for the non-linear problem. The idealized solution is, in effect, the superposition of two existing solutions both of which are associated with up-draught velocities and lends qualitative support to theories that associate tornado vortices with electrical activity, though here the agency generating the velocity field is the Lorentz force and not, the usually assumed, electric heating.

On Possibility of Electromagnetic Nature of Atmospheric Intensive Vortices Generation
adsabs.harvard.edu...

Our goal is to find out possible appearance of rotational motion in the atmosphere, created by a lightning. A positive solution of this question, in the end, leads to a necessity of accepting that processes of birth and annihilation of electron-positron pairs take place in the leader head of lightning channel. Under this condition, within the framework of our physical model of development of a lightning, we suggest a logical explanation of the stepwise structure of a negative leader, intensive radio emission produced by lightnings, gamma-ray flashes from thunderstorm and anomalously intensive electric currents from positive leaders. As for the development of intensive tornado it is determined by pumping of the angular moment produced by lightnings in a local area of the thunderstorm. Index Terms: 3324 Atmospheric Processes: Lightning; 3304 Atmospheric Processes: Atmospheric electricity

That ones bolded just for Asty. I'm such a stinker

An Electric Force Facilitator in Descending TVS Tornadogenesis
adsabs.harvard.edu...

We present a novel explanation of the physical processes behind tornadogenesis. We suggest that charge separation found in supercell thunderstorms serves to condense the existing angular momentum through the additional process of the electric force. Based on this, we present a plausible geometry that explains why many tornadoes begin at storm mid-levels and build downward. We show that this geometry can explain the observations that ground level tornadoes thrive in regions with high shear and large convective available potential energy (CAPE). A simple model based on this geometry leads to rational time scales spanning from the birth of a supercell to the touchdown of a tornado. We make some predictions of specific measurable quantities.

Electric field and Lorentz force contribution to atmospheric vortex phenomena
www.sciencedirect.com... sion=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=39414e214aa3769399b2bd56bc9b915d

The physics that initiate and sustain tornados and dust devils is still under investigation. Forces that operate throughout a wide range of scales and could contribute to atmospheric vortex phenomena are the Lorentz force and the force of electric fields. The Lorentz force results in a circular motion of charged particles in a magnetic field. An electric field will pull or repel a charged particle in the direction of the field. This paper will demonstrate that the Lorentz force and the force of electric fields, acting on charged particles that exist in atmospheric vortex phenomena, plausibly contribute to the set of physics that will explain tornados and other atmospheric vortex phenomena.

Electrical Theory of Tornadoes
www.agu.org...

Modern theory and observations appear to support the very old and almost forgotten idea that tornadoes are a manifestation of thunderstorm electricity. It is suggested that there is sufficient electrical energy in an intense thunderstorm to power a tornado and that the electrification could cause extraordinarily intense winds by electrically heating air or by accelerating charged air in an electric field.

It's baffling to me that some have a hard time with acknowledging the extent of influence that electricity and magnetism play.
Even though they themselves are bio-electric organisms.
The big picture, the key fact that is ignored is that the Earth is a charged body moving inside a cell of plasma and all of the effects on and near the surface of the Earth need to consider this. The effects may not be direct but it's at the top end of the cause and effect chain.
Unfortunately the compartmentalization of the sciences has blinded us to the obvious and arrogance, ego and greed keep us there.

Gotta thank mgmirkin for the links.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by squiz]

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
P.s. thanks for joining in Squiz, you know far more about this stuff than I do.
I'd rather be reading a thread of yours about this, than writing mine, but I am learning as I go so it's always useful.

No worries EMM, the weather side of the theories have been more of a tangential interest for me, I'm more into the cosmological and biological implications. I have to stress I'm no expert, more philosopher than scientist and definitely not a spokesperson for the theories. Just someone with a keen interest. I'm still learning too.

Thanks for the thread.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by squiz]

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


I don't know if you caught this article yet-

www.newscientist.com...

'Ready to burst out'
"There's a lot of indicators that Cycle 24 is ready to burst out," panel chair Doug Biesecker of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Space Weather Prediction Center in Boulder, Colorado, told reporters on Friday.

"The panel now expects the sun's activity will peak about a year late, in May 2013, when it will boast an average of 90 sunspots per day. That is below average for solar cycles, making the coming peak the weakest since 1928, when an average of 78 sunspots was seen daily.

Sunspots are Earth-sized blotches that coincide with knotty magnetic fields. They are a common measure of solar activity – the higher the number of sunspots, the higher the probability of a major storm that could wreak havoc on Earth (see Space storm alert: 90 minutes from catastrophe)."

Do you have any personal predictions? Maybe compared to any storms back in 1928?

Originally posted by geo1066
reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

 

I don't know if you caught this article yet-

www.newscientist.com...

'Ready to burst out'
"There's a lot of indicators that Cycle 24 is ready to burst out," panel chair Doug Biesecker of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Space Weather Prediction Center in Boulder, Colorado, told reporters on Friday.

"The panel now expects the sun's activity will peak about a year late, in May 2013, when it will boast an average of 90 sunspots per day. That is below average for solar cycles, making the coming peak the weakest since 1928, when an average of 78 sunspots was seen daily.

Sunspots are Earth-sized blotches that coincide with knotty magnetic fields. They are a common measure of solar activity – the higher the number of sunspots, the higher the probability of a major storm that could wreak havoc on Earth (see Space storm alert: 90 minutes from catastrophe)."

Do you have any personal predictions? Maybe compared to any storms back in 1928?

Sorry I have taken so long to reply back to you on this thread, i started a new job the other day, so I aint had much free time as I used too.

Personally, I don't know. I have a few personal theories, but I'm not sure.

Solar cycle will pick up, weather will start acting more erratic (not global warming or cooling just erratic), some severe storms.

One of the more interesting things I am waiting to see (and more than likely proved wrong on, but so what, lol) is our conscioussness and the Sun. I see our 'conscioussness' as a 'field' around us, now could the Sun start affecting that? I don't know, but its one of the things I'm curious about. Will we start getting more people 'clinically' insane? How about people seeing things, or hearing things? (the Buzz?)

There could be some insane changes, there could be no change, we really just don't know enough to make accurate guesses.

EMM

Ps I will be adding more information still, just wating for a bit of free time when I'm not shattered to research.

Check it out.
First Global Connection Between Earth and Space Weather Found

Weather on Earth has a surprising connection to space weather occurring high in the electrically-charged upper atmosphere, known as the ionosphere, according to new results from NASA satellites.....

.....The connection to plasma bands in the ionosphere surprised scientists at first because these tides from the thunderstorms can not affect the ionosphere directly. The gas in the ionosphere is simply too thin. Earth's gravity keeps most of the atmosphere close to the surface. Thunderstorms develop in the lower atmosphere, or troposphere, which extends almost 10 miles above the equator. The gas in the plasma bands is about 10 billion times less dense than in the troposphere. The tide needs to collide with atoms in the atmosphere above to propagate, but the ionosphere where the plasma bands form is so thin, atoms rarely collide there.

However, the researchers discovered the tides could affect the plasma bands indirectly by modifying a layer of the atmosphere below the bands that shapes them. Below the plasma bands, a layer of the ionosphere called the E-layer becomes partially electrified during the day. This region creates the plasma bands above it when high-altitude winds blow plasma in the E-layer across the Earth's magnetic field. Since plasma is electrically charged, its motion across the Earth's magnetic field acts like a generator, creating an electric field. This electric field shapes the plasma above into the two bands. Anything that would change the motion of the E-layer plasma would also change the electric fields they generate, which would then reshape the plasma bands above.....

....."The single pair of bright zones over the Pacific Ocean that is not associated with strong thunderstorm activity shows the disruption is propagating around the Earth, making this the first global effect on space weather from surface weather that's been identified," said Immel. "We now know that accurate predictions of ionospheric disturbances have to incorporate this effect from tropical weather."

And another...
Dormant Sun Spills Secrets In It's Sleep

"If you thought that the globe was going to warm up because there was more solar activity, you might perhaps expect it to get warmer everywhere, and this is not the case," said Joanna Haigh, an atmospheric physicist with Imperial College in London.

Haigh and her colleagues, who have been studying the sun in its relatively dormant state, have found an apparent connection between solar activity and regions of warming around Earth's midsection.

She is quick to point out that the phenomenon cannot account for the rise in global temperatures seen over the past 50 years. "The point is there is a significant effect of the sun on local climate, not global," said Haigh.

In an upcoming paper, Haigh's team provides evidence that when the sun is more active, Earth's jet streams weaken and shift toward the poles, taking with them storm tracks and weather systems that carry heat. The result is a subtle warming around Earth's mid-latitudes.

Note the connections between these separate articles.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by squiz]

Electric Dust Devils

Scientists have found clues dust devils on Mars might have high-voltage electric fields, based on observations of their terrestrial counterpart. This research supports the vision for space exploration by helping to understand challenges the martian environment presents to explorers, both robotic and, eventually, human.

NASA and university researchers discovered dust devils on Earth have unexpectedly large electric fields, in excess of 4,000 volts per meter, and can generate magnetic fields as well. Like detectives chasing down a suspect, the scientists attached instruments to a truck and raced across deserts in Nevada (2000) and Arizona (2001). They drove through dust devils to get measurements as part of the Martian Atmosphere and Dust in the Optical and Radio (MATADOR) activity.

www.spaceref.com...

They theorize that saltation, (the mechanical action of the sand particles). is the cause.
That's right the rubbing of sand together can produce over 4,000 volts per meter!
Now the electric nature of dust devils on mars have been confirmed, they still have the cause and effect mixed up in my opinion.

For the first time, direct evidence of lightning has been detected on Mars, say University of Michigan researchers who found signs of electrical discharges during dust storms on the Red Planet.

"What we saw on Mars was a series of huge and sudden electrical discharges caused by a large dust storm," Ruf said. "Clearly, there was no rain associated with the electrical discharges on Mars. However, the implied possibilities are exciting."

First Direct Evidence For Lightning On Mars

What have EU theorists been saying?

As long ago as March 2005, Electric Universe advocates wrote about the surprising discovery of dust devils spinning across the Martian deserts. The Spirit Rover returned several images of large, glowing funnels raking across the flatlands, leaving darkened trackways behind.

Since the atmospheric density on Mars is so low (less that one percent that of Earth), the question arose of how a strong “wind” can carve the soil and leave multiple tracks that can be seen from space? We might also ask how the global dust storms are energized by such a rarified vapor of frigid carbon dioxide gas?

The conventional theory of dust devil formation on Earth describes a vortex of warm air that begins as a horizontal “rotator” near the ground. As the spinning air gains momentum, it “stands up” vertically, forming a cylindrical cloud of dust that twists its way over the surface, gathering more debris as it goes. As it increases in strength, it tightens its diameter like an ice skater drawing in her arms. As it contracts, the dust storm spins faster and faster.

However, on Mars there is no vortex of spinning air to move into a vertical orientation and form the dust devil. Yet, there are funnels that climb thousands of meters into the sky on Mars and engulf nearly a whole hemisphere with their burden of sand and other small particles during certain parts of the year. A better explanation for dust devil formation on Earth as well as Mars could very well be electricity.

Some related TPOD's.
www.thunderbolts.info...
www.thunderbolts.info...
www.thunderbolts.info...
www.thunderbolts.info...