Originally posted by Freedom ERP
reply to post by Rapacity
If you break the law and the sentence is imprisonment, you give up your rights. No questions. We all make choices and should accept the consequences
for our actions.
Wrong. If you break the law and the sentence is imprisonment, you give up your right to roam freely within society. Imprisonment is (in this modern
day and age) a means of "correcting" a person's behaviour, keeping people away from other members of society, and of ensuring people follow
society's rules regardless of how arbitrary and bullish some may be.
And since when is not liking a tax been an acceptable reason not to pay it. Shall I say that to the VAT man next time I get a bill?
There is a difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance - one is a legally allowed means of not paying a tax that one does not like. I leave you
to study that one and extrapolate my answer from it.
An elected Government changed from rates to Council tax, if people do not like this then they pay the council tax and get the right to vote.
You are confusing two things: taxation and democracy - re-read my earlier post, perhaps you will then understand it.
Taxation is intended to be the means government uses to raise revenue from those it governs. That revenue is intended to be used to build a
country's infrastructure, pay for its defense, pay for its populace to be educated... and to pay for all other things from which a society's members
collectively benefit. Granted taxation is now being used to deter people from performing particular activities (smoking, drinking, driving (too
much)) and also fines are being used as a means of raising additional revenue; these are beyond the scope of this topic and I will not discuss them
here. Britain is a society hence we all need to pay tax to pay for our society's smooth running. I believe we agree on this.
Based on what you have said, namely that those who do not pay tax do not deserve to vote, I can only deduce that you really do not understand that
local and the national treasuries gain revenue from every member of society whether they pay the local/Council tax or not. Do you really believe that
a person who slogs his guts out all day long working at his job but whom has failed to pay his local taxation (regardless of reason) should not be
allowed to vote in local and parliamentary elections despite paying all other forms of taxation? Every member of British society deserves the right
to vote on how British society is governed (I have only one exception: the mythical EU referendum. Read my posts in other threads to find out why I
hold this exception).
Do you think that were a person to miss-calculate his tax return and pay less than he ought then he should be barred from voting until the difference
Should a rich person get two votes in each election just because he likely pays twice more tax than a poor person?
Should a person who's Council tax liability is paid by state benefits be denied his vote?
Those three statements/questions are as ludicrous as your "An elected Government changed from rates to Council tax, if people do not like this then
they pay the council tax and get the right to vote." which translates as: if you don't pay Council tax then you don't vote.
Democracy requires funding; taxation is the route of that funding; but an inability to pay all forms of tax (hence contribute toward the funding of
democracy) should never exclude a person from participating in democracy. We all contribute something to society be it finance or something less
tangible such as charitable assistance to others.
I am a big believer in personal responsibility - my signature once stated that and its limits - but when a justice system is built around bullying
then I cannot agree, ever, that all incarcerated criminals must be automatically excluded from voting in local and general elections. Nor do I agree
that those who do not pay all their tax liabilities must not be allowed to vote in local and general elections regardless of whether the non-payer
self-determined not to pay a particular tax - there are many people whom ceased to pay Council tax in protest at their money being used to commit
treason and to take this country (Britain) into an illegal war (should these not be allowed to vote too?)
As I said in my first post on this thread, there are a lot of people in the U.K who are wrongly denied their democratic right to vote in both local
and general elections. The European Court of Human Rights and I are in accord with that. Are you in agreement with the
As a final question for you: do you see that not allowing a person to vote because a person protests a tax by not paying it denies that person the
ability to vote to change that tax? Do you see the inherent problem with allowing some to vote and disallowing others to vote?
[edit on 26/4/09 by Rapacity]