Abusive border patrol agents "im pretty sure you are a terrorist" {video}

reply to post by jfj123


You STILL don't get it...

...everything you are typing, and everything you say I partly agree with. I wasn't serious when I said "I don't feel safe", I was just telling you what other people may be thinking about when they see this video.

However, I am going a step beyond your logic, and looking back. What you and this video are trying to do, is get rid of safety so you can have freedom. Which is the opposite of getting rid of freedom for safety.

This topic, and the o.p.'s video, is completely STUPID. We all know what the border patrols jobs are, and searching people when they don't answer questions is one of them.

Why not go to a movie theatre, and start an argument with the ticket stub collector when he asks for your ticket... it's the same thing. DUMB.

It's simple, if the police ask you if they could search your vehicle, it doesn't always mean they are going too. If you say "yes", they will probably just believe you have nothing to hide, because you will allow them to search. However, if you say "no" they have a reason to believe you are hiding something, and they will want to search.

I thought that was common sense. Guess not.

[edit on 19-4-2009 by 0nce 0nce]

Just curious but if a law enforcement official stopped you while you were walking down the street and asked to see your license then asked what you were doing there, and question you, what would you do? Would you think this is acceptable ?

In my line of work i am subject to a lot more invasive things by the police then just being stopped and asked for my drivers license and asked some basic questions.

So to just be randomly stopped on the street yeah i would question the cops reason for stopping me and questioning but at the same time i wouldn't be a jerk about it to the cop. 9 times out of 10 a cop will not stop you randomly unless your behavior strikes him as odd.

If your walking down the street and not acting like you just robbed the bank the cop isn't going to pay any attention to you.

The bottom line is these CBP checkpoints are constitutional, the border patrol are within their authority to set them up, the CBP are within their authority to stop any and all traffic to look for illegal aliens and contraband. when you first pull into the checkpoints you are asked the most basic questions that DO NOT VIOLATE ANY OF YOUR RIGHTS! Yes its your choice if you want to answer them or not, But if you refuse to answer even the most basic questions that gives the officers Cause to suspect you and gives them the right to send you to the secondary inspection.

the border patrol is doing the job we tax payers hired them to do. and the funny thing is all you people in this thread up in arms because you think they violated this guys rights would be bitching and moaning if they weren't there doing their jobs if it directly affected you!

there is a difference in standing up for your rights then just trying to make a scene to get some internet fame, which is what this guy did. this isn't the first time that he went into a CBP checkpoint with a camera and acted like an A**hole to the CBP officers unprovoked! just look around youtube there is atleast 1 other of his videos floating around. each time the CBP officers never do anything to him and eventually just let him go because they know what he is doing.

This video where he says he was dragged out of his car, beaten and tassered i call BS on until he can prove he was beaten by the CBP officers. anyone could have beat the crap out of him and he see an opportunity to say it was the CBP officers that he had a run in with just so he can get some money!

Originally posted by mr smith123
This guy was just looking for trouble..in my opinion, he did this on purpose, he goes through there often i take it.. (work) so knew what to expect..and had his camera ready to record the whole thing. I'd HATE to go anywhere with him.

local pub? a meal? the mall? he'd probably cause a scene anywhere.

I'm sure he's causing a scene the same way jews caused a scene in nazi germany when asked for their papers.

By having checkpoint up to 100 miles inside our boarders, we're effectively pulling back our boarders by that amount.

Then the next question to ask is when they want 200 miles, 300 miles, 500 miles. If you can justify the first 100, you can justify the rest using THE EXACT SAME ARGUMENT. Pretty damn slippery slope.

Originally posted by 0nce 0nce
reply to post by jfj123

 

..everything you are typing, and everything you say I partly agree with. I wasn't serious when I said "I don't feel safe", I was just telling you what other people may be thinking about when they see this video.

Thanks for clearing that up.
And for those people-they are more then willing to give up their rights for a little PERCEIVED safety.

However, I am going a step beyond your logic, and looking back. What you and this video are trying to do, is get rid of safety so you can have freedom. Which is the opposite of getting rid of freedom for safety.

No, I'm all for safety but not at the expense of freedom. You can't have both a free and safe society.
I'm sure you've heard the following:
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance"

This topic, and the o.p.'s video, is completely STUPID. We all know what the border patrols jobs are, and searching people when they don't answer questions is one of them.

But if the law doesn't provide for that, they can't do that.

Why not go to a movie theatre, and start an argument with the ticket stub collector when he asks for your ticket... it's the same thing. DUMB.

Actually no it's not. You pay for admission in the theater. If you don't want to go into the theater, you don't buy a ticket.
Free travel within the boarders of the United States is a RIGHT. No ticket needed. If the law says I don't need a ticket and someone says I must have one, that person is wrong.

It's simple, if the police ask you if they could search your vehicle, it doesn't always mean they are going too. If you say "yes", they will probably just believe you have nothing to hide,

Big assumption.
If a police officer asked to search my car, and if one ever asks you to search yours, I would always recommend you say NO. You never know what will happen.

because you will allow them to search. However, if you say "no" they have a reason to believe you are hiding something, and they will want to search.

They may think that but the law doesn't allow them to without reasonable cause.

I thought that was common sense. Guess not.

[edit on 19-4-2009 by 0nce 0nce]

I thought unreasonable search and seizure was common sense but I guess not.

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
Just curious but if a law enforcement official stopped you while you were walking down the street and asked to see your license then asked what you were doing there, and question you, what would you do? Would you think this is acceptable ?

In my line of work i am subject to a lot more invasive things by the police then just being stopped and asked for my drivers license and asked some basic questions.

You must be working in a secured facility/facilities I take it?

So to just be randomly stopped on the street yeah i would question the cops reason for stopping me and questioning but at the same time i wouldn't be a jerk about it to the cop. 9 times out of 10 a cop will not stop you randomly unless your behavior strikes him as odd.

I wouldn't be a jerk about it either and I do think the preacher was snotty about the situation. I however would not answer any questions the officer asked as I wouldn't want them twisted against me at a later date.

The bottom line is these CBP checkpoints are constitutional,

Yes.

the border patrol are within their authority to set them up,

Yes.

the CBP are within their authority to stop any and all traffic to look for illegal aliens and contraband.

Yes, to a point.

when you first pull into the checkpoints you are asked the most basic questions that DO NOT VIOLATE ANY OF YOUR RIGHTS! Yes its your choice if you want to answer them or not,

True.

But if you refuse to answer even the most basic questions that gives the officers Cause to suspect you and gives them the right to send you to the secondary inspection.

Incorrect.

the border patrol is doing the job we tax payers hired them to do.

Remember these checkpoints we're talking about are not on the border. And we're not paying them to violate our rights.

and the funny thing is all you people in this thread up in arms because you think they violated this guys rights would be bitching and moaning if they weren't there doing their jobs if it directly affected you!

They're not doing their jobs now because they're violating our Constitutional rights.

there is a difference in standing up for your rights then just trying to make a scene to get some internet fame, which is what this guy did.

IN YOUR OPINION. Unless of course you have a statement of him saying this ???

this isn't the first time that he went into a CBP checkpoint with a camera and acted like an A**hole to the CBP officers unprovoked!

The provocation was the violation of his Constitutional rights.

Would you feel provoked if someone violated your rights?

just look around youtube there is atleast 1 other of his videos floating around. each time the CBP officers never do anything to him and eventually just let him go because they know what he is doing.

And they know they legally can't do anything about it.

This video where he says he was dragged out of his car, beaten and tassered i call BS on until he can prove he was beaten by the CBP officers.

Of course you're going to say that. And since they took the camera, he can't prove it now can he? Do you think he beat himself up and tasered himself? A cursory medical exam will either support a tasing incident or dismiss it.

anyone could have beat the crap out of him and he see an opportunity to say it was the CBP officers that he had a run in with just so he can get some money!

Yeah that's it. He got himself beat up then got in line with witnesses everywhere. He then went through the line and claimed he was tasered and beat. Well the claim could be very easily dismissed because there were witnesses in cars right behind him. Have you heard the claims were dismissed because nobody saw anything?

I'm sure if it turns out the CBP did it, you'll say he deserved it for standing up for his rights.

Something else to keep in mind is that those agents in the video claimed he had no Constitutional rights within 100 miles of the US border. If that were really true, there would be a 100 mile perimeter around the US that was under martial law.

[edit on 19-4-2009 by jfj123]

Firstly, this is sooooo far from nazis and jews...and yes, refusing to answer questions does raise suspicion, and suspicion is all they need. why does this video start with "what do you need?"? Obviously, if he goes through here for work frequently, he knows the drill. he goes in with a camera, and acts like a complete dickweed. everyone knows the what ifs with this guy:what if a person with something to hide does this same thing and bitches and cries about his rights and blah blah blah...these patrols and checkpoints are obviously in use for a reason, and we all know that reason isnt to beat poor little preacher kumquat. its when little preacher kumquat tries to get his 15 minutes (as stated before a few times in this thread) that something is gonna happen. and there is no proof that he even got beaten up by any officials. he probably just tried this same # in a fast food joint or a dry cleaner and got smacked around. I think that if a bunch of border patrol officers did get his frail ass there would be more damage than a few scrapes on his head. And even if they did (ill believe it when i see the "footage" from the surveillance tapes) he was looking for trouble and he got it. just so happens that his camera want rolling.

Originally posted by ChaosComplex
Firstly, this is sooooo far from nazis and jews...

Not really, no.

and yes, refusing to answer questions does raise suspicion, and suspicion is all they need.

actually refusing to answer questions may raise suspicion in the eyes of the person asking however that does not raise reasonable suspicion which would allow a search.

why does this video start with "what do you need?"? Obviously, if he goes through here for work frequently, he knows the drill. he goes in with a camera, and acts like a complete dickweed.

So what?

everyone knows the what ifs with this guy:what if a person with something to hide does this same thing and bitches and cries about his rights and blah blah blah...these patrols and checkpoints are obviously in use for a reason, and we all know that reason isnt to beat poor little preacher kumquat.

Doesn't matter. Make all the excuses you like but it doesn't change the fact that they must operate within the confines of the law just like everyone else.

its when little preacher kumquat tries to get his 15 minutes (as stated before a few times in this thread) that something is gonna happen. and there is no proof that he even got beaten up by any officials.

Well there is suspicion and according to you that's enough so lets go ahead and have the BPG's arrested.

he probably just tried this same # in a fast food joint or a dry cleaner and got smacked around.

Stupid comment.

I think that if a bunch of border patrol officers did get his frail ass there would be more damage than a few scrapes on his head. And even if they did (ill believe it when i see the "footage" from the surveillance tapes) he was looking for trouble and he got it. just so happens that his camera want rolling.

Figures. The "he deserved it " defense.
And 7 million jews deserved what they got too right? The nazi's did have suspicion after all too

Originally posted by jfj123
But let's ask everyone else here.
Has ANYONE here had a positive experience with a law enforcement official????
Are my experiences outside the norm?????

Wow man, are you ever burning the midnight oil on this one. Good work.
To answer your question from my own personal experiences, when I have been pulled over, the police have always been fair if a bit less lenient than I would have liked, but I was speeding or technically disobeying a traffic control device in my particular incidents. I've been let go on speeding stops before, though, so I just figure it's a karmic system for me.

I have had very amicable exchanges with local beat cops in my home town, though. We had nicknames for some of the cops in town and officer shufflebutt was always cool with the kids that hung out downtown.
Sometimes we'd have long and informal question and answer sessions with him about the law particularly to see what we could get away with in regard to having house parties or whatever. Nothing sinister, but just trying to learn our boundaries so we could stay within them and they would be held to the same.

I am sure it was shufflebutt's job to keep his ear to the ground, though, and I am pretty sure he had several "informants", but he also had our respect because he would treat us as equals so long as nobody was breaking any laws.

As long as everyone plays nice and by the book, I'm good with it.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
But if you refuse to answer even the most basic questions that gives the officers Cause to suspect you and gives them the right to send you to the secondary inspection.

Incorrect.

Couldn't agree with jfj123 more here. This is the crux and the entire point of this thread that so many people have chosen to creatively elaborate on bringing all other kinds of reasoning and factors into the discussion that have no bearing on the point in question. Sorry about my own part in that, but I guess we either choose to discuss or we don't...

Originally posted by 4N6310

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
But if you refuse to answer even the most basic questions that gives the officers Cause to suspect you and gives them the right to send you to the secondary inspection.

Incorrect.

Couldn't agree with jfj123 more here. This is the crux and the entire point of this thread that so many people have chosen to creatively elaborate on bringing all other kinds of reasoning and factors into the discussion that have no bearing on the point in question. Sorry about my own part in that, but I guess we either choose to discuss or we don't...

Just watch the "Why you never talk to the cops" Youtube video!

Nothing you say, can become a positive thing. It is quite obvious that "MOST" law enforcement individuals think they have authority over every citizen in their juristiction, even without suspicion.

If you ask me, when he didn't roll down his window, which he freaking doesn't have to, the agents felt they needed to show him whose boss. They ended up losing that round, but how was violence necessary!

THIS BETTER BE A DAMN LAWSUIT!

Herein lies the dichotomy of the ‘security for rights’ trade; always framed in away that appeals to the emotions of those asked to surrender just a few more freedoms to obtain the desired goal. To the common ear not an unreasonable trade, to those more conscious of the incremental encroachment of fascism such is a fool’s trade; it is the choice for certain servitude.

First consider that these immigration checkpoints are nothing more than a rather clear example of the Hegelian dialectic of ‘thesis, antithesis, synthesis’ applied. First, the border problem and illegal immigration could have been solved long ago had our government really wanted it solved. The construction of a good border fence in conjunction with pre-employment social security number checks with severe penalties for employers who are found for not utilizing the system already in place would have taken care of most of the problems we currently face. However, with NAFTA the true direction we are being herded towards is the North American Union of Canadian, America and Mexico.

So, to act as if they are ever so concerned about illegal immigration while getting the sheeple to be ever more ready to surrender their rights, they create the answer of ‘illegal immigration checkpoints’ which serve the purpose of giving the appearance of really caring, while getting the sheeple use to surrendering their constitutional rights without question or thought. For added benefit, just staff these check points with non-constitutional adept guards who truly believe they are there to ‘serve and protect’ and add an air of paranoia so that there will be numerous clear violations of the rights of those passing through these points.

From the ‘powers that be’ standpoint you now have a way to collect anything considered ‘contraband’ at the moment (say like a citizen caring his evil assault weapon or too much cash), you are training not only those who pass through the check points but those who hear about them not to worry about their 4th, 14th or whatever other Amendment rights as the government is there to help you and you are training the sheeple to submit to control. Furthermore, you are testing the limits of the indoctrination of the sheeple by how they react to the numerous violations of the rights of the herd.

God bless this pastor for standing up and refusing to be intimidated in to giving up his rights, this is the stand needed to be taken by ALL Patriots; the fact that he and others are testing these checkpoints are forcing this incremental evil into the spotlight. The question is now will we submit to this checkpoint trashing of our constitutional rights or we stand to defend those rights before they are lost forever?


[edit on 4/19/2009 by SGTChas]

Well folks,
I've read most of the reply's to this video and the reply's to my own. Some of you make valid points, and some of you have asked if I'm a cop. Yes, I am. I've been patrolling the criminal streets of small town america. I've been in "knock down drag outs" with felons who have warrants for their arrest, arrested people for battery, theft, drugs, weapons, driving on suspended licenses, lewd and lacivious. Someone brought up the point of walking down the street and being stopped by the police. First of all its not a detention unless the cop says "Stop" or give the person some type of command that would lead that person to believe that he/she is no longer free to leave. The Supreme Court has ruled that the police can initiate contact with any person out on the streets because while out in public you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. Now, does that mean that the contactee has to stay and converse with the officer?, no they don't. Officer continue to stay in contact with the contactee after they have made it clear that they do not want the contact are pushing the limits, and in most agencies there is a complaint process. The Supreme Court has also ruled that the police may stop and detain anyone who they believe may be going to commit a crime, is commiting a crime, or has commited a crime, (Terry v. Ohio). Like it or not there are people walking, running, driving, riding, our streets who are criminals and some who are wanted. What does a criminal look like? The criminals that I've come into contact with certainly don't look the McDonald's Hamburglar. Look, the BOTTON LINE is that this guy went to this check point to CONFRONT the border patrol agents and the policies that they have been instructed to enforce. I understand that he may have been trying to bring issues that he thought may be constitutional violations to the public's attention. I also understand the public's perception on this. But wouldn't a better way be to get the media involved? These checkpoints have been in place for years. If they were such Constitutional Right violations the media would be all over them. These checkpoints and the agents that enforce their policies are there because we put them there. If we as American's don't like the way the government is operating then our recourse is to vote and elect people whom we believe will hold our values and beliefs in place. NUFF SAID

In the United Sates, a police officer, when they stop you, can ask you for ID and if he or she suspects you of a crime may ask questions relating to it. He or she must state the reason for you being stopped. At all times any person being stopped has the right to be silent.

These border patrol agents are only the first of the coming police state. You see that they could care less about the Constitution, or the law. They are bullies and thugs. They were chosen because of this attitude of aggression they have. Also they don't appear too smart.

As for the pastor, he is already cited as a potential terrorist simply because he may be against abortion or have a Ron Paul bumber sticker on his car, or maybe he listens to conservative talk radio. What he did was the right thing to do. Those who are unwilling to stand for their right to be free deserve to be slaves.

Border patrol agents are to be on the border keeping aliens out and not harrassing US citizens.

It is a real pity that if civil conflict with the government breaks out that the government will have caused it by continuously insulting, degrading, and taxing the people, not to mention the swift actions to turn The USA into the USSA, that is, The United Socialist State of America.

Vote with America on your heart and mind in 2010 and in 2012...

Originally posted by Fromabove
These border patrol agents are only the first of the coming police state. You see that they could care less about the Constitution, or the law. They are bullies and thugs. They were chosen because of this attitude of aggression they have. Also they don't appear too smart.

As for the pastor, he is already cited as a potential terrorist simply because he may be against abortion or have a Ron Paul bumber sticker on his car, or maybe he listens to conservative talk radio. What he did was the right thing to do. Those who are unwilling to stand for their right to be free deserve to be slaves.

You are correct! Never will a cop say, if given an unreasoonable order to usurp a citizen's rights that he would disobey that order. They, for the most part, are thugs looking for a fight. They are mindless bullies who get off on preceived authority. When the NWO comes down, they'll be the first to be disarmed and neutralized.

The US citizens are waking up to their threat to freedom. I would not want to face a well armed, pissed-off nation of citizens after the bad will these uniformed mis-fits have earned for themselves. One humdred million armed citizens and growing. Tyranny will not prevail!

reply to post by skyeyes
[I would just like to make a few points regarding your reply.

The Supreme Court has ruled that the police can initiate contact with any person out on the streets because while out in public you have no reasonable expectation of privacy.

These are not police officers, and the scope of their jurisdiction is clearly defined. In United States vs Martinez-Fuerte

The Court of Appeals held, with one judge dissenting, that these stops violated the Fourth Amendment, concluding that a stop for inquiry is constitutional only if the Border Patrol reasonably suspects the presence of illegal aliens on the basis of articulable facts. It reversed Martinez-Fuerte's conviction, and affirmed the orders to suppress in the other cases. 514 F.2d 308

U.S. v Martinez-Fuente
It should be noted that the ACLU is bring action on the 100 mile constitution-free zone.

Look, the BOTTON LINE is that this guy went to this check point to CONFRONT the border patrol agents and the policies that they have been instructed to enforce.

I agree that he was prepared for the confrontation but hold that he did not specifically go there for it, rather that it was an obstacle in his daily travels.

But wouldn't a better way be to get the media involved? These checkpoints have been in place for years. If they were such Constitutional Right violations the media would be all over them.

NO, the media only reports what their corporate owners instruct them to. The MSM is should not be trusted as your only source of information. I personaly don't trust it at all! Not that every report is false, although some clearly are slanted to create the desired reaction while attempting to appear unbiased. More importantly the MSM simply doesn't cover stories that might get the public upset over things like internal movement checkpoints. Knowing that all your TV and print news is owned by a mere six corporations might help you understand why. I absolutley agree with filming and bringing it to the internet. I'd bet that it gets far more exposure and discussion on the net than it ever would from a pre-approved and likely damning slant on CNN.

Likewise with your belief in the voting process, not that the votes are rigged, but they might be. More that in a one party system that presents itself as two, there sometimes are really no good choices. With problem>reaction>solution playing out right before your eyes, sometimes the numbers of people who do get all their information from the MSM are just to great to overcome at the polls.

I know you're a cop and that being said you have to step outside of your profession and really try and look at it from the point of people who feel that this is another step towards what is really feeling like an unstoppable police state. And in the name of security. How ironic that that is the very scenario that we have been warned about since the birth of this nation.

reply to post by skyeyes


Very eloquent sentiments from a member of the establishment in defense of the status quo mindset; notwithstanding this there are problems with your line of reasoning. First being that these check points are obvious violations of the 4th, 14th and numerous other Amendments, meaning that any ‘Officer’ that staffs them participates with the treasonous activities they represent; remember that ‘I was just following orders’ is no excuse. Second is the fact that while the abuses at these checkpoints have been documented in several media reports, the vast outlets of the media elite that are so vocal in their bias towards anti immigration enforcement are strangely silent on these checkpoints (the question being: WHY?). Third is the fact that the very reason that such activities as the pastor’s ARE being carried out is BECAUSE our vote appears worthless.

What you and the rest of your law enforcement brethren had better figure out is on which side you stand; for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights or for the corrupting influences that have hijacked our government and are trashing them. As the Tea Parties point out, the American People have about had enough and there is not much time for sanity to return to our elected officials (as we all pray it will). So the question remains WHERE DO YOU STAND OFFICER? I took an oath to defend the US Constitution and Bill of Rights from all enemies, both foreign and domestic; the color of their coat, whether red, blue or black does not matter: De Oppresso Liber!

It is now quite obvious that plants are on every conspiracy website spreading misinformation, and trying to supress the truth.

I may agree that he could have dealt with the situation another way, but in NO WAY was his beating justified by his actions.

THIS IS OBVIOUS REVENGE!

Originally posted by Fromabove
In the United Sates, a police officer, when they stop you, can ask you for ID and if he or she suspects you of a crime may ask questions relating to it. He or she must state the reason for you being stopped. At all times any person being stopped has the right to be silent.l

This isnt a traffic stop, its a friggin border patrol checkpoint, whether on a border or not. the reason for the stop is to have a couple words to asses whether or not the person is suspicious. questions related to this stop could be anything from "so where you headed" to " can i see your id" to anything else they want to ask. they have to operate within the law.....well newsflash...THEY ARE THE LAW!

Another point. This from a different angle on the whole issue, and which also moves to validate the fears of a policy state.

Billions of tax dollars have been spent on the "fence" to stop the jumpers. But the video below exposes the fraud perpetrated by our rulers. The checkpoints would not be necessary if the border itself was a real border and not just a line on a map. Where is all that money going? Is it going to fund all the new agents and to set up internal checkpoints? watch this


The immigration problem will be over when the full scope of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America is revealed to be what it truly is, the North American Union. Signed in secret by everybodies favorite Bush in 2005 and without congressional approval. There will not be a need for border patrol. There will be a "need" however, for more internal security and those border agents will still have jobs running checkpoints on the movements of the "free"

Originally posted by ChaosComplex

Originally posted by Fromabove
In the United Sates, a police officer, when they stop you, can ask you for ID and if he or she suspects you of a crime may ask questions relating to it. He or she must state the reason for you being stopped. At all times any person being stopped has the right to be silent.l

This isnt a traffic stop, its a friggin border patrol checkpoint, whether on a border or not. the reason for the stop is to have a couple words to asses whether or not the person is suspicious. questions related to this stop could be anything from "so where you headed" to " can i see your id" to anything else they want to ask. they have to operate within the law.....well newsflash...THEY ARE THE LAW!

No... they are not the law, nor are they obeying the law. They are a ficticious quasi patrol who's only purpose is to harrass American citizens, or else they would be on the border. They are thugs, bullies, and dangerous to both the nation and the public. BTW, "border patrol checkpoint" has within it the word "border". I think that tells the story.