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Abusive border patrol agents "im pretty sure you are a terrorist" {video}

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posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by ClintK
 


ClintK....can you elaborate?

I mean....we still don't know IF it is the US Supreme Court, or the NM Supreme Court. Upon further reflection, since it is a Federal Highway, I will assume it was a US Supreme decision (although no one has yet found the ruling, and brought it to ATS).

We all, in the US, know full-well the make-up of the 'Court' at present.

Example: Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas (the one who rarely says ANYTHING during rulings) recently hosted a kid's show...sorry, forget where...but he was heard to say how he thought a dishwasher was 'magical'....(I am NOT making this up!!).

To paraphrase: "I put the dirty dishes in, and then when I open it, they're clean!" (Clarence Thomas' comments, on the show....)

I let that speak for itself.......




posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by Unmask The Deception
 


Agreed! Can you imagine what it will be like, for law enforcement officers, when an overwhelming majority of well armed citizens understand they are being hounded by cops of the New World Order, in these situations involving patriots meerly demanding their rights.

One hundred million guns in the private hands of true US patriots are all that stand in the face of tyrany at this time.



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by romanmel
 


Why can't cops be patriots as well or are they all of the sudden "not human" c' mon they are people too some are good and some are bad but none are perfect.



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by alyosha1981
reply to post by Unmask The Deception
 


...fact is cooperation is not a loss of liberty...period!


Tell that to seven million dead jews, who "cooperated" with the Nazis during WWII. What an affront to liberty, this type of reasoning entails. What this video shows is how "above the law" those empowered to enforce it can become.



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by alyosha1981
 


The officers wanted to pull him into a secondary checkpoint so that they could search his vehicle without probable cause. They did not have probable cause and that is a violation of our 4th amendment right. He had already cooperated by stopping, and that was what was required. The officers could not come up with a legitimate reason why they wanted to search his car.

They attempted to violate his rights. There was no probable cause because they could not provide one. That is illegal my friend.



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by alyosha1981
 


alyosha.....big 'ole star there.

This entire controversy needs to be re-examined, and possibly taken down a few notches.

I am not personally conversant with the exact locations of these 'checkpoints'...I understand the approximate regions, and they seem to predominate the 'Southern' borders....which is funny, because are they trying to keep the folks from the South getting in, or the folks from the North moving South???

Oh...that's for the future times....

Back to now. IF these checkpoints are detemined to fight Mexican, or other illegals coming thru Mexico....then WHY are checkpoints arranged randomly along Inter-State Highways that run generally East-to-West???

Why not focus on the routes that are North-South? I mean, not every point along I-8 has a connection to the South, into Mexico....does it?

Is it possible that these 'check-points' are arbitrarily set-up to be convenient to the home cities of the Officers involved? Hmmmmm????



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by skyeyes
Do any of you realize how much contraband is transported in vehicle's throughout our country? What does a vehicle that is transporting contraband look like? Do any of you realize just what type, and how much crime is occurring in your streets, who is the victim, who is the suspect?! Who is sneaking around out there while you're sleeping? Who is the crackhead just looking to steal to get the next hit, who is the dangerous criminal who is going to break into your house while armed?
Your good street cop does. Because he/she interacts with these people on a regular basis. Perception is a powerful thing. You can show an incident to ten different people and get ten different opinions. Random vehicle searches have produced a large quantity of contraband seizures around the country that would not have been detected without the search. Not just drugs, but weapons, explosives, drug money, and even cadavers. If any of you want to know just what a law enforcement job encompasses I recommend that you attend a Citizen's Police Academy if your local agency offers it.


Do any of you cops realize how much contraband is in people's houses? Shouldn't we just let you all randomly search our houses too just to be on the safe side?

It sounds to me like all of these special powers that have been given to you cops over the past 30 years have made you all pretty lazy. The easy way out is to just search anyone you come across and your bound to eventually find something. To hell with people's rights.

There's just one problem with that.... This is supposed to be a free country. Remember that?

All of these new laws make your jobs so much easier now you know? I understand your motivation in defending the present status quo.

But I don't agree with it at all. These guys making these videos are very brave and as we can see they are putting themselve's in dangerous situations by doing that.

Some might even argue that many of the things that are considered contraband should have never been illegalized in the first place. But here we are today becoming subject to harassment at every turn.

Another problem here is where does the law enforcement perogatives stop? Do we just let them set up shop 200 miles inside borders next? Hell why not just set up a Passport system to travel from town to town like in the old Soviet system under Stalin?

Where does it stop?
Or do we finally start fighting back?



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by romanmel

Tell that to seven million dead jews, who "cooperated" with the Nazis during WWII. What an affront to liberty, this type of reasoning entails. What this video shows is how "above the law" those empowered to enforce it can become.


This is the absolute truth. I do not understand how people cannot see the road we are leading our country to.


"But but but..... tyranny cannot happen in America......baaaaaa
"



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 01:29 AM
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Originally posted by 0nce 0nce
A MESSAGE TO THE VIDEO CREATOR.

PLEASE, STOP DOING THIS!

Although you think it is a good idea, it is going to have the exact opposite effect of what you want.

I hate to say it, but people like this are the ones who force new laws to be created so it doesn't happen again. You are going to ruin our rights by forcing them to create new laws that allow them to do exactly what you don't want them to do.

Have some common sense people. Finding and using any type of "loophole" will just force them to fix the "loophole". Please do not ruin my rights by forcing them to change them, because you wanted to film it on video and show the world. This will turn out to be a case of "one person ruining it for the rest of us".

Just my opinion.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by 0nce 0nce]


Are you kidding me??? Where is your back bone? Do you know how many people have fought and died for your freedom that you so willingly give up? You can keep your common sense, because it is definately not my sense.

You want to just hide in a corner and hope the gov dosent take away any more of your freedoms if you dare to stand up for what rights are yours? THAT is the problem with this country today, spineless whiners who are afraid to stand up and call BS if theyre rights are being infringed upon.

Im not necessarily singing this guys praises, but I respect him for having the nuts to stand up for himself against officers who are obviously a little to big for their britches. I dont know this guy at all, but I appreciate what he did in the video, and MAYBE that will bring some CHANGE. Maybe the US Senate will decide upon tactics for the BP Agents that dont demand a citizen to be treated like hes a criminal, by aarogant cops who believe that everyone has to do what they say all the time.

You need to wake up bud, and smell the coffee. Im glad there are people like him out there, becasue if we all had your opinion, we'd be living in Russia right now.

Just MY opinion.



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by romanmel
 



During this long confrontation I counted almost a dozen people on one vehicle making false arguments to try to detain an American citizen who displayed no reason for them to suspect him of any wrongdoing. All the while, at the border, illegals are swarming northward undetained.


so let me get this straight you think its a waste of time to have agents away from the border to catch the illegals that got across the border in areas that the border patrol has a hard time patroling?

also the best defense is a multi-layered defense. you put the majority of your players up front and then have a small group of players behind them to catch what gets through.

let me guess you want all the agents on the border and any illegal that gets through should be free to stay in the U.S. since they made it across the border? what about the CBP officers in the airports do you want them to stay in the airports or do you want them to go pyshically patrol the border?

the bottom line is The CBP officers are doing the best job they can with the small numbers of agents that they do have. your not happy with they job their doing? I'm sure they are hiring so why don't you join them on the border?

its easy to be an armchair quarter back like yourself but until you either do the job they are doing or cross the border on a daily basis and see the numbers of people and vehicles they have to deal with everyday and see the job that they are doing is impossible you just won't understand anything about it.

reply to post by weedwhacker
 


yes its rediculous to think he was a coyote, but it is not rediculous to think that he might have been smuggling contraband. you'd be surprised in the amount of drugs you can hide in a car! when he refused to answer any questions that gave the Customs and border patrol agents enough probable cause to refer him to secondary inspection (ie a closer look) when he refused to move his car over to the secondary inspection area that gave them even more probable cause and suspicion that he was hiding something.

I'm all for sticking up for your rights but there is a time and a place for it, and a border patrol checkpoint within 100 miles of the border is not the place. the CBP main role is to enforce federal immigration laws. and since the are federal law enfocement officers they have the authority to demand to see your drivers license if you enter the checkpoint in a car and proof of citizenship. If durring the time your in the checkpoint area they notice you have or are violating a local law they have the authority to detain you until they contact the local authorites for that area and they either say they are sending someone to take over or they tell the CBP officers to just let you go.

i don't know how many times i have crossed the border and the CBP officers had to let someone go for violating local law because the sheriff or local city cops were to busy to send someone to the border crossing or checkpoint.


Of course, a simple rolling down the window, they see you're 'white' and you don't have an accent....and they wave you on your way. Is THAT what you want? Because it treads dangerously close to a 'racial profiling' edge of the cliff.....


WEED whacker have you ever been through a border crossing or CBP checkpoint away from the border?

i have numerous times.

here are the basic questions i have been asked when crossing back into the U.S. from both canada and mexico

crossing the border:
hi how are you today sir?
are you a citizen of the U.S. sir?
which state do you live in sir?
what was your business in Canada or Mexico, business or personal sir? (even though 99% of the time when i crossed the border i was in a tractor-trailor so they new it was business)
How long were you in Canada or Mexico sir?
thank you sir have a nice day

CBP checkpoint:
Hi how are you today sir?
are you a u.s. citizen sir?
where are you headed today sir?
thank you sir have a nice day.

now granted i am white but i do have an accent. the majority of the CBP officers don't racial profile, if they did every mexican crossing the U.s. mexico border would be going to secondary inspection. Most of the CBP officers make their decissions on who goes to secondary by the persons body language. or by how cooperative you are during the primary inspection. If you give them a reason to suspect you then they will and you'll be refered to secondary inspection. this guy from the get go set off alarm bells to the CBP officers because he refused to answer any questions at all and started with the whoe am i being detained BS! From his own account he travels through there a lot he knew he wasn't being detained, he knew the CBP officers were within their authority to have the checkpoint set up, and to stop cars looking for illegals or contraband smuggled across the border.

He also knew that if he just answered their basic questions he would have saved himself, the CBP officers and everyone in line behind him a lot of time and hassles.



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 



Back to now. IF these checkpoints are detemined to fight Mexican, or other illegals coming thru Mexico....then WHY are checkpoints arranged randomly along Inter-State Highways that run generally East-to-West???

Why not focus on the routes that are North-South? I mean, not every point along I-8 has a connection to the South, into Mexico....does it?


i know of 2 checkpoints on I-35 north of the Mexican border. And the checkpoints that are on the east west highways are in Arizona and new Mexico. they put them on Interstate 8 because it is the closet road to the border in parts of Arizona and new Mexico. those ares are mostly desert and mountainous. and are not very populated.

the coyotes and the smugglers use those areas to cross the border because they are very lightly patrolled on the ground. they are patrolled by the air. they send the illegals and smugglers through the dessert to an area south of I-8 were there are trucks waiting to pick them up an transport them to other areas in the U.S. or through the U.S. to canada.



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 01:47 AM
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reply to post by Mercenary2007
 


Using your logic, why stop at 100 miles from the border. Why not a 200 mile post, then a three hundred mile post, then a four hunded mile post, then..... For God's sake capture them at the border. That is where the crime has taken place!!!

This type argument can only lead to invasion of American citizen's cars and homes for a crime that took place at the border. If your "officers" are so incompetent that they can't arrest an illegal at the border, then maybe one should consider getting a new batch of officers.



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 01:47 AM
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Posted by Mercenary2007
the bottom line is The CBP officers are doing the best job they can with the small numbers of agents that they do have. your not happy with they job their doing? I'm sure they are hiring so why don't you join them on the border?

its easy to be an armchair quarter back like yourself but until you either do the job they are doing or cross the border on a daily basis and see the numbers of people and vehicles they have to deal with everyday and see the job that they are doing is impossible you just won't understand anything about it.

I'm all for sticking up for your rights but there is a time and a place for it, and a border patrol checkpoint within 100 miles of the border is not the place.


Really??? So you'd have us believe that we have to be a cop before we can question their authority, we cant activate our rights as free citizens of the USA under the Constitution at any time, for any reason, to any one? BS man. It is highly strange of you to claim that noone has a right to protect their freedom unless theyve worked as an officer of the law.

And this little comment, I'm all for sticking up for your rights but there is a time and a place for it, and a border patrol checkpoint within 100 miles of the border is not the place ARE YOU FOR REAL?

WE CANT STAND UP FOR OUR RIGHTS IF WE'RE WITHIN 100 MILES OF THE BORDER? WOW. Thanks for that enlightening comment


Come on people, dont forget what it means to be free.

[edit on 19-4-2009 by treemanx]



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by Mercenary2007
 


Yes, well...Mercenary....not arguing with you, just discussing how the tactics could be better arrayed.

People in the US may, or may not know....that Inter-State Highways are numbered in certain ways....IF they have an even number, they generally are West-to-East. IF they have an odd number, then then are generally North-to-South.

Of course, interspersed among the Interstates, are various smaller roads and routes, etc.

I am just suggesting that there is a better way to inderdict, without subjecting normal, law-abiding citizens who just happen to be driving along an InterState that occasionally comes near the Mexican border to unreasonable stops.

The interdictions should be occuring closer to the sources.....and, I know....this would mean more personnel....which is EXACTLY what is needed in these hard economic times!!! More Jobs!!!!



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 02:21 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


i understand what your getting at but unless you invent a crystal ball that will allow the CBP officers to see who is the bad guy and who is the good guy we will always have these CBP checkpoints away from the border.

or we figure out a way to completely seal the borders.

yes these checkpoints should be closer to the source and in most cases they are. and in most cases they are within 30 miles of the border. but by law the CBP can set them up as far out as 100 miles. and no they are not just on the southern border i have seen them inland from the northern border.

now for those that think this guy was right for what he did and provoked the CBP officers.

they are federal law enforcement officers they have the authority to detain you for questioning regarding your citizenship status or if they suspect your transporting contraband. they have the authority to search you and your car if they have cause. most of the time they search your car because if a dog is present it hit on your car, or the CBP officer decided he has cause because of your actions during primary inspection or secondary inspection.

and honestly your not giving up any rights when you enter a CBP checkpoint. most of the time they just ask simple questions like i mentioned in my post above. its during those questions that the CBP officer determines if you should be taken to secondary or not and if your not sent to secondary inspection you only lost about 5 minutes of your time. The CBP officers only take you to secondary inspection if you give them a reason to suspect that you deserve a closer look. and in the case of the topic of this thread the guy gave them a reason. he wouldn't answer any basic questions and kept asking if he was being detained.


[edit on 4/19/2009 by Mercenary2007]



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 02:27 AM
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I read the first couple of posts in this thread, and I am disappointed in some of the replies. People do not seem to understand their rights. Before replying, how about you read the US Constitution. Now that you have read it, please tell me where it states that a policeman is permitted to detain and search you without a warrant. The truth is that you cannot.

Some people have said they do not like the pastor's personality. That he may have an agenda and doesn't like cops. I can't believe I even have to address this point. Are we to take away the rights of someone whom we do not like? You do not have to be polite to guarantee your rights, as they are INALIENABLE. Even though it is not a smart idea when dealing with a cop on a power trip, you can be a complete jerk and still be protected by the Constitution. This pastor was not "asking for it," he was asserting his RIGHTS. Do you understand? My grandfather, great grandfather, and so on up to the American Revolution, died protecting and in service of the US Constitution. Wake up, America! What has happened to this pastor and across these States is inexcusable!

It is a sad day when being a patriot is out of the norm and a cause for hatred and suspicion.

[edit on 19-4-2009 by Viral]



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by Mercenary2007
 


Merc....interesting take. My Dad spent many years, and retired from the US Customs. He's not around anymore to ask, but some of what you said rings true.

Prior to 9/11....and this, my Dad, long retired, bristled at...the Treasury Dept. held jurisdiction over Customs and Immigration. My Dad worked, thusly, for 'Treasury'. Post 9/11, various 'agencies' were forced to "merge" under the auspices of ONE new 'branch', the I.C.E.

These inter-cine rivalries are the crux of the current problem.... old, reliable factions butting heads with new ideas....and the constant politics that go on behind the scenes....

WE DO NOT NEED this BS in Law Enforcement circles!!!!

Perhaps this is what chafes at the Officer's sides....to make them testy, at times.

I saw, in the video evidence presented regarding this Check-Point incident, some very well mannered, and well-composed officers who dealt with the 'perp'....so, broad brushes aside, no one can lay blame on any individual....UNTIL certain lines get crossed, then it's not for us to decide, in any case.....



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 02:35 AM
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THIS IS GONNA BE A FREAKING HUGE LAWSUIT!

I can't believe this happened, I can't imagine what it is gonna be like the day Obama delcares Martial Law... in the case it actually happens!



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by Viral
I read the first couple of posts in this thread, and I am disappointed in some of the replies. People do not seem to understand their rights. Before replying, how about you read the US Constitution. Now that you have read it, please tell me where it states that a policeman is permitted to detain and search you without a warrant.


Yes they can.

Stop and frisk However, in certain circumstances, authorities are permitted to conduct a limited warrantless search on a level of suspicion less than probable cause. In Terry v. Ohio 392 U.S. 1 (1968), the Supreme Court decided that when a policeman "observes unusual conduct" that leads him to reasonably believe "that criminal activity may be afoot" and that the suspicious person has a weapon and is presently dangerous to the policeman or others, he may conduct a "pat-down search" (or "frisk"), to determine whether the person is in fact carrying a weapon. To conduct a frisk, the policeman must be able to point to specific and articulable facts which, taken together with rational inferences from those facts, reasonably warrant his actions.[20] A vague hunch will not do. Such a search must be temporary and questioning must be limited to the purpose of the stop (i.e., if the policeman stopped you because he had reasonable suspicion to believe that you were driving a stolen car, after confirming that it is not stolen, he cannot force you to answer questions about anything else, such as the possession of contraband).
Source

[edit on 19-4-2009 by alyosha1981]



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 03:12 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


i gave you a star for that post i agree we don't need that kind of BS in any law enforcement agency.

I knew before 9/11 border patrol fell under the treasury departments umbrella along with secret service and the coast guard. post 9/11 they all fall under DHS and yeah i'm sure there has been a lot of agency partisan politics going on in the higher ups as they are merged together.

most of the guys on the line don't play those games, I have see a few that do but they are the minority.

it just gets me all the people in this thread that are bashing the CBP guys and thinking this pastor guy was right for what he did. Probably none of them have ever been to the border, or gone through one of these checkpoints, and actually knows what goes on when you go through one. actually knew what their rights are. they just see it as a step closer to the "Police State" But yet the piss and moan about illegals crossing the border. and they don't come up with a solution to fix the problem.

They might think this guy was right for sticking up for his rights in a CBP checkpoint, but it honestly wasn't the place to do it. these guys were just doing their job and were within the authority that we gave them! all this guy and people like him that keep doing this are going to do is make congress right more laws erroding the few rights we have left.

there is a time and place to pick your fight, picking your fight with the customs and border patrol guys is not who you need to pick the fight with you need to pick the fight with congress, they are the ones that make the rules not the guys on the line!



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