Creepy conclusion: We are alone!

reply to post by Gawdzilla


And while we are at it, you took someone to task over using the truism in response to the OP that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" with the counter that:

"Absence of evidence is all we have"

What unmitigated rubbish!

There is a titanic mountain of "evidence", it just does not amount to absolute "proof" as far as you and some others are concerned, as Nohup expressed earlier. We could debate all day what would finally constitute "proof" to you, but that is not the point.

However, to deny that there is any evidence for the ETH is simply absurd.


[edit on 17-4-2009 by Malcram]

Originally posted by Malcram
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

And while we a re at it, you took someone to task over using the truism in response to the OP that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" with the counter that:

"Absence of evidence is all we have"

What unmitigated rubbish!

There is a titanic mountain of "evidence", it just does not amount to "proof" as far as you and some others are concerned. We could debate what would constitute "proof" to you but that is not the point.

But to deny that there is any evidence for the ETH is simply absurd.


[edit on 17-4-2009 by Malcram]

Still waiting for evidence. What you got?

Originally posted by UFOexisist
I am sorry to crash your dreams, but this is the truth. And the truth sometimes hurt. I know life is boring but you have to face it if you want to know the truth.

The only dream you crashed is your own dream.

People have a hard time to accept a "I simple don't know it yet for sure the one way or the other" status and forcefully make a conclusion based on a few weaky points they heard or put themself together and believe it as the absolut truth. That's fine if it helps someone to bring his or her mind to a satisfying rest if the one really needs it.

However selling this for your own confort build shaky conclusion as THE TRUTH to the rest of the world is a little bit an ignorant act.

Nothing of the points you listed and build your conclusion on alows to get a definitve answer to the one or the other side. Beside most of your points are simple not correct. Like you say it's impossible that..
or you say "Where are they?" I know where you have this from but that question for example is pointless since you don't know if they are already here or not. The base is missing. Hiding is not impossible. Not telling the truth is also not impossible. Beside you also have to wonder about who really knows or can know the truth.

On the other side there are a lot reports and documentations of ufo cases and abduction that you all have to dismiss or bind them to some sort of crazy top secert military project if you exclude the ET possibility.

For once the chance to prove ET's existence is always present and possible also when there were not the slightest hint of ET till now. (which of course is not the case.)
ET just has to ring at your door knop for this now or in 1000 years or whenever ET pleases. Maybe also never and then you never know. That's the Truth. Because..

...to prove that ET once and for all does not exist... is something that is simple not possible to do:

It's the same like trying to prove that the purple invisible dragon flying above your house does not exist.
It is not possible to do.

So you sell something as the TRUTH that can not be proven to be truth strictly seen from a technical point.

You say : We are alone.
I could answer: Prove it!
Impossible you can not do it.

So don't sell it as a Truth. Sell it as your conclusion and your opinion.

If one would ask me about a disinformation agents post..
Your post comes closest to my imagine of a disinfoagent post.. although I don't believe in disinfoagents posting on this forum except maybe in some political issues.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


The OP made the claim of fact, the burden is on them to prove it. That you do not require them to do so simply demonstrates your faux skepticism and overt bias.

And as a supporter of the OPs statements you share the burden of proof to support the claims you are defending with evidence. So, what have you got?

As I stated, the evidence that the statement is wrong is that it is pure speculation. Pure speculation cannot be presented legitimately as fact. You are hypocritically doing exactly what you condemn "true believers" for doing.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by Malcram]

I don't believe that we're the only life in the Universe.

However, other life may or may not be something that we will interact with.

Some life may just be too alien for us to comprehend.

Imagine how far our technology has come in the past hundred years. Where will our technology be in say another 5,000 years? (That is assuming that we don't kill ourselves first). If we survive and continue advancing our technology I assume that we will have been exploring the galaxy for some period of time. Why would we want to interact with another society if it seemed primitive to us? Perhaps other species exist and just view us as primitives and just observe us from an anthropological point of view.

Perhaps their are other species who have no interest in exploring the universe but are quite happy to live and let live.

Perhaps, because mankind is so warlike, that other species observe us, but are attempting to keep us quarantined so we can't take our violence out into the galaxy.

We've been communicating using radio and TV for a pretty small part of our existence. Perhaps this is such a primitive way to communicate that all the advance races can't or don't want to listen to us. Maybe in another hundred years we will use the same form of communications that other advance races use or perhaps it will take us a thousand years to meet some technological limits that will allow us to communicate with other races.

There are lots of reasons that can explain why others are not communication with us (or being very selective in who they communicate with) if you use your imagination. I think that it's way to soon to dismiss the possibility of intelligent life in other parts of the galaxy.

Originally posted by UFOexisist
I am now 100% sure that ET's as described previously don't exist. That because of the following reason

* There is no hard evidence of alien proof
* If Alien exist as describes above, where are they?
* If the US goverment is hiding it what about other governments of the world?
* If they existed then NASA would have found it. But still they didnt find it.

Read 'Need to Know by Timothy Good' and 'Alien Agenda by Jim Marrs', theres lots of other books on the subject of UFOs but these are two of the best IMO.

Re: * If they existed then NASA would have found it. But still they didnt find it.

Watch 'SECRET SPACE, WHAT IS NASA HIDING Episode 1& 2'. Here is hard evidence that NASA not only knows about UFOs, but they are also actively attempting to hide the existence of UFOs from the general public.

There is actually lots of hard evidence that UFOs exist, it just gets hidden / suppressed / ignored by mainstream science and hidden / suppressed / ignored by the mainstream media.

Admittedly, its difficult to directly prove the existence of intelligent aliens, but UFOs do exist beyond a doubt, and seems like the only logical explanation for such phenomena, not to mention the number of claimed contactees, it all gives for a pretty strong case for intelligent aliens.

There are other theories for UFOs such as them being space creatures, demons or elementals etc, or even spiritual phenomena, and this could account for some cases, but most researchers agree that the UFOs people are seeing, in the case of genuine sightings of course, are alien craft and technology.

reply to post by Celestial Encounters


"There is actually lots of hard evidence that UFOs exist, it just gets hidden / suppressed / ignored by mainstream science and hidden / suppressed / ignored by the mainstream media."

What do you have?

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by Celestial Encounters

 

"There is actually lots of hard evidence that UFOs exist, it just gets hidden / suppressed / ignored by mainstream science and hidden / suppressed / ignored by the mainstream media."

What do you have?

hey buddy, enlighten yourself and try using google to find your evidence. All i've seen you do here is tell accuse every believer of aliens on this board they don't have evidence. If your so set on denial of ETs, why are you even wasting your time on ATS?

Originally posted by bl4ke360

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by Celestial Encounters

 

"There is actually lots of hard evidence that UFOs exist, it just gets hidden / suppressed / ignored by mainstream science and hidden / suppressed / ignored by the mainstream media."

What do you have?

hey buddy, enlighten yourself and try using google to find your evidence. All i've seen you do here is tell accuse every believer of aliens on this board they don't have evidence. If your so set on denial of ETs, why are you even wasting your time on ATS?

I'm interested in what evidence people think is valid and why. However, some people appear to be a bit gunshy. I have to ask, is asking questions a bad thing?

Originally posted by UFOexisist
But However after years of vague footages and no hard proof of aliens just vague stories of fraud people and the delay of "disclosure". I am now 100% sure that ET's as described previously don't exist. That because of the following reason

* There is no hard evidence of alien proof
* If Alien exist as describes above, where are they?
* If the US goverment is hiding it what about other governments of the world? China, Russia, Brasil, Germany, French, India, Pakistan, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Italy more than 202 countries what about them?It is impossible that none of them releases info about ET's.
* If they existed then NASA would have found it. But still they didnt find it.
* If you saying the impossible, that Nasa is not telling the truth, then what about other space agencies around the world. European Space Agencies, Russian, Chinese, Indian and other. It is impossible that they are also not telling the truth...

So, according to your very cursory research of the subject do you think you know all the variables to come to such a pointed conclusion? I suggest you quit waiting for other's to hand 'disclosure' over to you on a silver platter, stop listening to other's tell you what is and what isn't, and go get your hands dirty and find it for yourself. That is if you're really that interested in knowing and this isn't just a thread from frustration.

If you continue to think what you've always thought, you'll continue to get what you've always got. I wish you luck on your personal journey.

I think the only way the OP can be 100% sure there are no ETs elsewhere in the universe (as he suggests) is if he himself has scoured, in person, say...a trillion quadrillion galaxies and each solar system/planetary system, not to mention each and every planet and moon within the trillion quadrillion galaxy sample...

....even then he'd only be touching the tip of the iceberg. It's pretty much a groundless, pie-in-the-sky assumption otherwise to suggest there is no other life form other than what's on earth.

reply to post by UFOexisist


Your on the right track flying saucers are military made projects they originated in Nazi Germany look up Nazi Secret Space Program or Project Paperclip..

BUT if you are someone who is religious not meaning tied to a certain religion because if you are you still have a lot to learn but the Book of Enoch which was banned from the bible which Pastors still can't explain to me why considering Enoch is mentioned in 5 verses in the book of Genesis and is the Grandfather of Noah it was also written early enough to be a legitimate document but what can you expect when the Catholic Astronomer/Astrologer is telling people to believe in Aliens! (look it up on youtube yes he did!)

But the Book of Enoch explains about another rebellion in Heaven with Angels lusting after the daughers of men on Earth, God told them not to do such things and they went down and mated with the daughters of men creating an offspring called the Nephilim which were basically giants thats where the story of David vs Goliath generates from and how it proves it's true and the purpose of the flood was to wipe out these Nephilim but the DNA was still corrupted afterwards but God saw Noah to have the purest DNA not the purest of a soul because many like to ask why God later commanded them to take their land and kill them later on was because they weren't fully wiped out.

These Nephilim work with the synagogues and the serpent, Satan.

But don't confuse The Book of Enoch's rebellion with Satans rebellion the angels in Enoch were chained into the abyss but I'm pretty sure they are on the same side as Satan now considering one of the Fallen Angels asked Enoch to ask God for Clemency on his behalf but it was denied.

reply to post by hezekiah


And I forgot to tie up the loose ends I was so eager to make that post but anyways!


Considering the book of Enoch tells us of these Angels descending from Heaven to EARTH, now since we are on earth we look to the sky and whats beyond that? You call it space but The lord calls it The Heavens..that's where the dis information begins in the first place there's only oxygen on EARTH no-where else evidently it isn't apparent 2 people down here that we don't belong out there nor below the seas because if you are looking for the old Atlantis that fell along time ago Atlantis is no more than the first Babylon and the new Atlantis is the Whore Of Babylon..Just scholars amongst the serpent taking truth from the Bible and converting it into things of fantasy and things to amuse to make people brainwashed with dis-information.

But anyways when these supposed ET aliens come here on these flying saucers and abduct people what do they usually leave for after effects?

Usually someone who claims they have been impregnated by such beings or probed or some crazy crap like that and they try and tell you they exist the person who supposedly been abducted by such things..

Well lets look at that and the Book of Enoch and you'll find two beings coming from above mating with women on earth and also having them believe in who knows what!

Basically if you start believing in these Aliens and Not in God your doing exactly what Satan wants, he's making you believe in something else besides the CREATOR because if anyone here knows of Lucifer's Rebellion (satan) when God commanded his Angels to bow to his new creation Satan refused because he felt we humans were lower than him considering we were made from mud and he was made from fire, therefore he rebelled and has wanted to be worshiped as if he was the true God the one and only creator ever since.


Talk about truth, The book of Enoch was written around 100 B.C. way before the 1920's when these flying saucer things had been supposedly seen.

And before anyone wants to challenge this with the ancient civilizations having carvings of flying objects let it be known it's also in the Book of Enoch that these Fallen Angels taught humans magic,how to make weapons,sorcery,astrology, and I'm pretty sure they could give them images in their mind of what was to come during these days giving them inspiration to draw such carvings so you bringing up ancient civilizations to oppose my posts would really only enhance my Biblical aspect of this thread. :-D

Hope this has helped, believe in the Most High and nothing a MAN tells you.


The Epistle of Jude speaks of Pastors,False Prophets,Friends,Family and even strangers coming in the name of Christ in the last days but will deceive many.


and basically you can view the crop circles and cow mutilations and sick rituals and other propaganda to make you believe in such nonsense.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by hezekiah]

Originally posted by UFOexisist

We are living with 6 billion people not just the US, Such a conspiracy is impossible to keep.

They did with the Manhattan Project. This was a project that utilized hundreds of thousands of people who kept quiet until the Atomic Bomb had been dropped. It was a conspiracy and for years was kept totally quiet. As I understand, Jimmy carter couldn't even get the files he wanted about UFO's even when he was President, because George Bush Sr. (at that time CIA Director) would not let him have them.....he was denied.
As I understand UFO's are several levels above the Presidency. Now why would it be several levels ahead of the Presidency and above even our most technical "known" technologies? I am not saying UFO's are from "out there" but Bob Lazar did and although ridiculed for many years, a lot of things he said came to pass that others mocked him on. Take for instance the element 115..he named it, described the weight, knew the use of and decay rate as well as the elemental symbol. The irony is that, I recall reading editorials where they mocked him and said there is no such element..years later that very element 'WAS DISCOVERED' after the Bob Lazar incident had already cooled. This is also one of those elements that has to be engineered in the ostensible vacuum of space and cannot be found here on earth (the bond material). My point is this lends credibility to Bob Lazar's other claims as well. Just because YOU aren't privy to sensitive information, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I mean, come on, ...how hard is it to pull the wool over sheeples' eyes anyway. The government does it to us all day every day in every way possible.......and we "the people" eat it up. There are so many things hidden from us that the sheer amount of things for us to ponder uses up a big majority of the time we need to solve ONE mystery. This is almost like the needle in the haystack analogy only, in this case, the needle is placed carefully in a specific place, we are told it doesn't exist and the more you look for it..the more straw they add to the pile. If..by chance..the aliens were underground, say, in bases, and all workers were heavily monitored and chipped and even if they were to "talk" about aliens living here underneath us, (phil schneider, bill cooper and many others) they usually end up murdered or discredited..and who believes what the government tells us about these people? That's right, we the gullible sheeple. If they are underground in large bases, the size of cities? They won't need to come up to the surface to be murdered by us. After all the incident in 1947 (Roswell) and the Orson Welles experiment to see how people would react to alien presence did not go that well, did it? Not saying they are here, I am saying there's no real way to know unless you are "in the know."
Maybe these Aliens are secretly running ALL governments and all we see everyday is nothing but a big stage play like Shakespeare said "all the worlds a stage" , Maybe this is why they need a New World Order so bad, so they can actually enslave us to the point they can then come to the surface because we will all (worldwide) be contained. It might explain why the world's population is being "thinned out" by wars, poisoning out water supply with fluorides and foods with all other kinds of poisons and why food (that is the most enticing) is also the most dangerous. Maybe they are thinning out the herd to (as the Georgia Guidestones suggest) a controllable amount of people and amount that can't stand up to their ever increasing war machine that is building larger and larger why normal people are being killed off more and more. One day the Aliens might just out number us or at least be able to control us by technology, imprisonment, brainwashing camps and reinsertion back into the slave force pool. Who knows, I could be right. I have never seen aliens with my own eyes though, just the bodies in their wake.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by sinister_scarecrow]

the french did a report and said they do exist.the governments dont want us to know so, they can keep us locked into thinking only about earth and all the creppy things they do to us,to be able to open your mind to the vastness of the universe is something they really dont want people to do.because we mighten go along with their set out of how they want our reality to be.and anyway people from the governments have been leaking information for years.and what, all the craft reported way back in history were government craft,so they have time travel too do they.and the craft were from today going back in time. to support your theory of government flying saucers.i agree the not so advanced ones that crash all the time are probably ours.

Originally posted by Nohup
After many, many years of interest in this subject, I finally concluded that I don't know whether "aliens" exist or not, and I have no idea what might be responsible for the UFO reports that are obviously not delusions, misidentifications, or outright hoaxes. No idea at all.

I think it's pretty obvious something is happening, but in spite of all the evidence, there's nothing that points toward any specific explanation. In fact, I often feel that maybe whatever is happening has more to do with how our brains interact with reality than with something as mundane as aliens. Also, I often feel like it might not even be possible for us to really understand what's going on, because our perceptions and interactions with reality are so fundamentally limited.

That's not much to show for decades of interest (research, I guess), in this stuff. But what can you do?

I couldn't have said it better myself. Sure there is a perception of a phenomenon that gives rise to the UFO subject, and some folks seem to take it and run off the deep end, while others ignore the minimal amount of evidence in an effort to avoid challenging their assumptions. Problems for both sides.

But I will say, beyond a shadow of a doubt in my opinion, there is NO WAY that a secret government conspiracy is in place to hide the truth from us. NO WAY. To believe otherwise to me seems ignorant, and plays right into the fictional stories and tall tales that seem to fascinate those who so very much want that type of utter tripe to be true.

There is not going to be disclosure on anything alien from any world government, because the most obvious reason is there is nothing to disclose. Other than a few classified military projects it may be nothing more than useless eyewitness testimony and blurry photos of god knows what.

I wish the above wasn't true, but simply wishing realty was different doesn't change reality.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by IgnoreTheFacts]

reply to post by UFOexisist


I dont even know where to begin to counter your completely non-logical "conclusions" so I wont bother. But you really need to re-evaluate your sources. Trusting NASA is a huge mistake for one. At least if you want to know the truth.

Maybe its because you live in America and have been growing up with the idea that military organizations can be trusted, that they want to protect you, that they are the good guys and the rest of the world cant be trusted. I dont know. But looking at you from the outside, its difficult to understand how you can lack critical thinking to that degree.

I don't believe for a minute aliens and UFOs are rooted in govt disinfo. There is evidence aliens are really here. However, there is a lot of mistruth and lies spread by uneducated people and govt subversives, agent provocateurs etc.

There is no evidence the big UFO cases from the 1940s and 1950s could be secret Soviet or American technology. Does it make any sense, the encounters and aggressive actions behind some UFOs ? Is top secret NATO or Soviet technology an explanation for waves of remotely disabled ICBMs, in some cases with multiple redundant power supplies ?

There has never been a credible explanation for these events other than ET/non-human intelligent intervention.

The declassified govt files, may not contain pictures of alien corpses but it's clear UFOs are taken very seriously at the highest levels of the military and govt. Remember we've only got a tiny fraction of what the govt knows about UFOs, and nothing classified above top secret. The FOIA documents we do have show UFOs are real objects with radar returns that do things that aren't supposed to be possible. And it's not recent. They've been around since before the jet age.

I think you might be right,It is possible that we are all alone.although I do not find it creepy....I find it kind of miraculous!

Originally posted by sinister_scarecrow

Originally posted by UFOexisist

We are living with 6 billion people not just the US, Such a conspiracy is impossible to keep.

Originally posted by sinister_scarecrow

They did with the Manhattan Project. This was a project that utilized hundreds of thousands of people who kept quiet until the Atomic Bomb had been dropped. It was a conspiracy and for years was kept totally quiet.

Not even remotely true. Please review your history. The Manhattan project was plagued by information leaks (to both our allies at the time and our enemies). There was no chance of keeping that project secret.....no chance. It was more of a race to get there first than anything else. The reason the Russians took so long to test their own was....never mind....off topic to go into that but you can look it up.

I am not saying UFO's are from "out there" but Bob Lazar did and although ridiculed for many years, alot of things he said came to pass that others mocked him on. Take for instance the element 115..he named it, decribed the weight, knew the use of and decay rate as well as the elemental symbol. The irony is that, I recall reading editorials where they mocked him and said there is no such element..years later that very element 'WAS DISCOVERED' after the Bob Lazar incident had already cooled.

I highly recommend you check out This element 115 thread as it is the definitive thread that discusses ALL sides of the fictional Lazar element 115 story. The answer to your incorrect assumption about predicting the element in advance is in there (multiple times).

My point is this lends crdibility to Bob Lazars other claims as well.

Seriously, read that element 115 thread in its entirety before you state that. I would hope even a casual, cursory examination of the story around that topic would be enough to put off even a die hard believer.

wow, hitting the preview button on this thread showed me I have no idea how to do double and multiple quotes, lol. Sorry for the hard to follow read.


[edit on 18-4-2009 by IgnoreTheFacts]