Report: EPA To Declare 6 Gases A Public Health Risk, page 2
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 02:23 PM by jdub297
Originally posted by Beach Bum
reply to post by jdub297
It's amazing how incompetent one group of people can be. When will they learn we can't destroy the planet we didn't create? So tired of hearing these people speak. I agree completely that we have harmed animals and plants and ourselves and a great deal of the earth but to say we might destroy it is the greatest arrogance I've ever heard of.



s4u

You must live inside my head!

See, I agree that, locally, we can do terrible damage to our surroundings.

But, for years we've seen the undeniable healing process that Earth is capable of. Even Chernobyl is being reclaimed by nature!

If we pay half a mind to what we are doing to ouselves, the Earth will recover just fine, giving natural processes a chance to work.

Globally, we are nothing! Earth has shrugged off man several times and we've been close to extinction before due solely to natural processes.

Man can not affect the weather. Man can not alter the Earth for long before it takes back what we've taken.

We are no more than a pest, a benign infection.

We presume way too much to think we control any natural forces.

If Earth does not rid herself of us, we will regulate ourselves out of existence.

deny ignorance.

jw



reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 03:57 PM by jdub297
reply to post by Vitchilo


OK, and guess which party thinks this is "cool."

EPA and USDA will soon dictate what you eat, drink and breathe, and make you pay more for the pleasure.

The bottom line here is that the Obama admin. believes that there is no limit beyond which Gov't. shouldn't control your life. And that you should pay for the privilege of having them make your choices for you.

Obama has already estimated that the CO2 restrictions will generate $650billion in revenue to pay for health care.

Who do you think is going to hsve to dig into their pockets for that $650billion?

Better start turning up the cushions, 'cause the bills will be coming soon.

jw


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 06:10 PM by Adrifter
here comes your renewable energy credits folks...


Funny I was just posting about these earlier today on another board....


I would like to see the studies on the gases too btw..

sounds like lobbyist's to me.. Who knows. I am just glad I am in the Solar industry, Maybe you guys will be hiring me to put your solar panels up on your houses.. I guess I should be happy..

First people that are gonna freak are CORPS, actually, because they are going to have to conform to being green or get taxed. Government is giving them grants right now to conform up to 30 percent of the cost for PV, panel systems, 1st thing that will prob, happen if REC's come up is allot of commercial businesses will be investing in renewable energy to avoid big taxes, also have to understand a typical one family home only eats up a few hundred kilowatts a big business like say a packing house or something eats up MEGAWATTS. Also another thing to think about the OBAMA admins, does not even have a energy Sec. yet, so their is still sometime, its still all in a delay format but I am seeing these taxes prob. start to pop up on a state and local premise at first perhaps. No matter what thou this is going to be the future, taxing on energy and even AIR, folks.. Its all political, and I don't think they can prove C02 emissions are harmful to our health, that is why they are using new language..

here is a link to catch you up on the AGENDA..

www.wisegeek.com...

Hope I helped show you the truth of the future..

[edit on 17-4-2009 by Adrifter]


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 08:51 PM by jdub297
Originally posted by Adrifter
here comes your renewable energy credits folks...


There will be no credits without taxes. Do you really believe Obama admin. is going to give away anything? No! Regs. will be restrictive, with penalties attached to production beyond certain limits, depending on the enterprise. Households will be the lowest level, with 1 5-year old or newer car allowed. Everything above that costs money. That's what gives "credits" any value. t's not intrinsic in the credit, it'smarket-driven. The more credits in trade, the lower the value. The fewer, the higher. Dept. of Energy willthus act like the Frederal Reserve (of Energy).

I would like to see the studies on the gases too btw..


You won't. All studies must account for natural production of these very gases, which will dwarf any input from man. Better not to show that info to anyone.

Also another thing to think about the OBAMA admins, does not even have a energy Sec. yet, so their is still sometime, its still all in a delay format but I am seeing these taxes prob. start to pop up on a state and local premise at first perhaps.


Energy Sec. Steven Chu has gone on record saying that coal gives him nightmares. Seriously. He has also stated that Americans pay far too little for electricity and fossil fuels. He proposes a 'more European' scale for gasoline and diesel. Chu also beleives that electricity should cost at least 25 to 50% more than it does now to reflect environmental "costs." What he means is that if gas-fired or coal-fired electricity is prohibitively expensive, then alternatives become more economically reasonable. Makes perfect sense, right?

Let's hear it for the Democratic process of hearings, votes in each house of Congress, adjustments by the executive, then a signature or veto.

NOT!

EPA is executive not legislative. They say it is so, it is so. They must wait 60 days for "comments," then they're good to go.

Got any "comments?" Nobody at EPA gives a rat's ass. They will tell you what to do with your comments, though.

Good job Dems/Libs/Progressives. America thanks you from the bottom of our wallets.

Do not say you weren't warned.

Deny ignorance.

jw

[edit on 17-4-2009 by jdub297]


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 09:39 PM by Adrifter
reply to post by jdub297


The credits in essence is the tax, bro.. the details are still fuzzy but either you have renewable means of energy, or you buy credits from you power company who in turn are the ones getting the tax, and passing it on to you.. Pretty much, its going to the Government.. I hear ya thou..



reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 10:08 PM by jdub297
reply to post by Adrifter


In the EU model, credits were initially doled out from a pool based on then-cuurent emissions. Future development, increased production, et c. required either the payment of a tax or the purchase of credits from others who had excess inventory.

It was presumed that production/expansion levels would grow at a certain rate. Unfortunately, people became more frugal instead.

Oops! "Credits" have plummeted in value. Nobody needs them when everything is going downward!

EPA starts out otherwise. You are allowed a certain amount of emissions/comsumption, depending upon your status. If your actual figures are higher, you pay a tax. Or, you can purchase "credits" as hedges and hold them until assessment time. At that point, you tender the credits (or hold them and pay the tax), retaining the remainder as your hedge. Depending on the value of the dollar and the credits, you amy do one, but not the other. Especially if you've purchased and held a stockpile of credits from others.

This is essentially a futures market, as envisioned. The idea is to have and maintain an excess of credits in play to be traded as securities. They may or may not have expiration dates. Given dollar volatility and interest rate movement, I'd bet they expire or must be settled "in kind."


reply posted on 18-4-2009 @ 10:15 AM by bluewaterservant
reply to post by jdub297


when you say fossil fuels i belive that is called COAL. gas and oil are made everyday by the natural distillation process which is how we learned how to distill we also can extract harmful gasses by compression /distilltion. don't by the lie!!!!!!


reply posted on 18-4-2009 @ 10:49 PM by jdub297
reply to post by bluewaterservant


Gas, oil and coal will ALL be subject to the EPAregs/restrictions as their combustion results in one or more of the subject GHGs.

Gas is found with oil deposits. Oil deposits are the result of decomposition of organic substances, usually, formerly alive.

I have two stripper wells on my land. They emit gas continuously.

At the bottom of any swampland, you will find organic material that has begun this decomposition process.

jw


reply posted on 20-4-2009 @ 01:33 PM by jdub297
Originally posted by Unnoan
out of everything going on, this is going to prove to be huge in the long run and definitely should be on the hot pages....

I can't wait till i start getting my $400 utility bills and seeing my taxes begin to look like a cellular phone bill with all sorts of itemized taxes - one of which will be CO2 emission.


It's coming sooner than you think. NPR this morning featured three guests, two from the BHO Energy Dept. and EPA. Transcripts of the "Diane Rehm" show are available at www.npr.org... or at the host www.wamu.edu...

Methane will be regulated depending upon tonnage/year emitted. 20 head of cattle will be 1 methane ton/year unit. They will be taxed accordingly!

I kid you not; this was straight from the BHO reps.

Same is true for autos and CO and CO2 emissions. Manufacturers will be responsible for producing vehicles that limit these emissions, either thru modified-fuel combustion, or electric (why not steam?) supplementation. Thinking of a new car? Add about $5,000 to what you thought you'd pay.

Got an old vehicle? Pay up at the pump! Every tank full will cost you.

Work in an office building? Oh no! They use so much electricity that they will be in a special class because power generation for them releases CO and CO2 into the atmosphere. Rents go up, operating expenses go up. Your employer pays. Guess where your next pay raise just went. Or any bonus you thought you might've earned.

Do you eat; feed your family? Wow, that's too bad. Farmers and ranchers will now be taxed on their equipment and livestock, not to mention higher fuel, pharmaceutical, pesticide and fertilizer costs. When you get to the grocery this fall, and they ask if you want to pay in installments, better take them up on it. Or cut back. (Americans are overweight anyway, so think of the indirect benefits you'll enjoy. This will help with national healthcare costs too, so be thankful.)

Hey, though! Your income tax went down $20 per month, if you're lucky (Remember, "95% of Americans will have their income taxes CUT!)

Carbon Tax? Cap and trade? Those revenues will go to pay for nationalized healthcare, so you won't see them anymore. The BHO reps explained it this way: 'That is money that the Obama administration will put back into the economy, so all Amercians will benefit from this tax.'

They didn't explain how, if it's already allocated or already'spent,' it will get back into the economy. Guess I just wasn't following their logic.

Nobody said anything about these other 'taxes," did they?

You got what you asked for. Smile!

Deny ignorance.

jw
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