Pirate Bay co-founders lost

The media industry knew they could not get a conviction against TPB on infringement, so they did the smart thing and went after them as individuals for the charge of facilitating. Now while the site itself may remain operational, as long as it remains so then tose individuals will continue to facilitate and as such leave themselves open to further legal action. If this conviction survives appeal and the site stays open, then expect to see further legal action and subsiquent convictions. It may be that the current operators may have no other legal option than to disassociate themselves from their creation, either that or spend the rest of their days in prison for little more than helping some ignorant freetards infringe copyright.

reply to post by RogerT


true if i take your car, you have no car. the car you had is worth nothing to you anymore. if you steal a copy of my mp3, i still have the mp3. thats fine. but if everyone in the world steals it. i still have it, but it has no value to me anymore. it is still my property, but it has lost all its value.

i'm really trying to keep my mind open about this, but the only conclusion i can gain from most of you who disagree with me, is that you want to justify your free stuff. I hear all of your points but i don't see it any other way than " now that stealing is easy, we have to change the definition of stealing so we can continue to do it and not feel bad."
i'm not telling you what is moral and what is not or what you should or should not do. but that mp3 is mine. and unless i give you permission to use it, you have no right. if you steal it I am hurt, personally. i am a victim of theft. I used my talent, my tools, my studio, my money and my time to create it, and sometimes it's really easy , but other times it is not. it doesn't matter. it's mine and you can't have it for free.....unless I say you can. It is MY F-ING STUFF. its as simple as that.

Originally posted by RogerT

Originally posted by conwaylemmon

i'm gonna take your car tomorrow. it's not your property. i want it.

Thanks, I was just waiting for that one.

The problem with your logic, is if you take my car, then I have no car. If I download your music, you still have your music. However, your impact as an artist on the world has now expanded.

If you could do the same magic with my car, please feel free, I would be delighted for you to get as much pleasure as I do from my motor.

if i could do that with your car, the way you can do that with my song, then there would be no auto industry and no new cars. and I'm not talking about making an impact as an artist. I'm talking about making a living.

reply to post by conwaylemmon


Hi

sorry your wrong on the consumer not having the right to decide what fee they pay, the fact that people download music is stating the obvious, its means that people are voting with their wallets and going for the free download. So the bands and artists who have had free ride for a long time, now are screaming, foul, but people are fed up with the high prices of cds etc esp in the uk, where cd can cost as much as 12 pounds, while cd in the us can cost 12 dollors. We are not stupid we can smell a rat when see he is near. Its the same with games, in the USA its 35 dollars and in the uk 35 pounds. Its a total rip off. I for one think its about time that there should be a new code of conduct, if compaines stop ripping people off people will buy stuff. When i was teenager i use to record music off the radio, but i still went and bough records, why becaue they were good and quite cheap but then the price went up., records fell and artits were miming stuff, no longer do artist have to have a talent, its look pretty, shake your bum and sing dirty words,. For god's sake song writers and record compaines us software to get rid of the bum notes in a singers voice, and what you get is a very different sound from when you see them live. This is why i suscept that alot of artists today sex and looks more than the music, it is because they have no talent.


All we see today, its a big fat ripp off, and record compaines are starting to close down, soon they will not exist, people say its because people are downloading songs. I do not think so., I am using the analogy of cassette tapes. People forget its was very easy to copy stuff from the 1960s on wards and you get great sound. People copied all the time but record companies existed, and adapted, but now we have the opposite, it goes to show the people in charge have no imagination, just like the meida, every one ignores them now as we know its gonner but the party line. We get the same old rubbish on tv, all the crappy over use 60s songs, we see on american idol and x factor, its boring, so people are voting with their feet.


artist should negoitate a fee, for their music, in fact i am sure they do, they might loose a few cents on royalities, but hey we know when they are successful they are doing great. NO 5 pounds is too high for an album these days. I say 3.00 for a down load,

reply to post by Marek


erm people always make art, they do it not for the monetary gain but for the love of it and its that bad now xfactors are here dominat, that is because the music industry is stagnant.

Originally posted by badw0lf

Originally posted by logician magician
I know I'm stealing it when I download it...

Do you?

... or are you just trying to rationalize your criminal tendencies so your ego doesn't take a hit?

Let's see someone take $10 dollars from your paycheck every week and see how much you enjoy it even though your not "really taking a hit"...

Straw man arguments.

This imagined $10 is not going to buy me a dinner or a case of beer, unless someone was actually going to spend that $10 to buy my product.

So if 10000000000000 people INTEND to buy my product but don't, I do not suddenly lose 10000000000000 x $$$ value in revenue.

It does not work that way.

However, if 1 person who would otherwise have not been motivated to purchase my product, downloads and enjoys it, then seeks to purchase a quality copy - I win.

*sigh* people need to think about how it all works, radios have done this for decades. Giving away free samples of (that over time can indeed be shown to be complete sets of) music, in order to entice further purchases from the artist.

It's not rocket surgery.

Straw man argument? Really? Toward what original argument?

Your own response is rather ironic, however.

By the way, how many albums can you name where the entire album was ever played over the radio?

edit:... or streamed over the radio on demand, into your Ipod, after typing a search into your radio?


[edit on 18-4-2009 by logician magician]

Originally posted by conwaylemmon
reply to post by RogerT

 

true if i take your car, you have no car. the car you had is worth nothing to you anymore. if you steal a copy of my mp3, i still have the mp3. thats fine. but if everyone in the world steals it. i still have it, but it has no value to me anymore. it is still my property, but it has lost all its value.

If it has lost it's value because you have shared it, then it was not a true act of creation in the first place and you were just attempting to make money. Nothing wrong with that, but in the new paradigm you will need some other avenue or alternative approach to continue making money.

i'm really trying to keep my mind open about this, but the only conclusion i can gain from most of you who disagree with me, is that you want to justify your free stuff. I hear all of your points but i don't see it any other way than " now that stealing is easy, we have to change the definition of stealing so we can continue to do it and not feel bad."
i'm not telling you what is moral and what is not or what you should or should not do. but that mp3 is mine. and unless i give you permission to use it, you have no right. if you steal it I am hurt, personally. i am a victim of theft. I used my talent, my tools, my studio, my money and my time to create it, and sometimes it's really easy , but other times it is not. it doesn't matter. it's mine and you can't have it for free.....unless I say you can. It is MY F-ING STUFF. its as simple as that.

I feel for you. You believe that what comes through your creative energies ought to remain in your control. The universe just does not work like that, even if we use petty and silly laws and social manipulations to try to force it to do so. When you fight nature, you will ALWAYS lose in the end, it's just a matter of time.

My advice to you would be if you do not want anyone to experience your creative works without paying you a monetary value, then do not release them into a public medium.

In short, if you want to maintain the illusion that something is yours, then keep it safely hidden under lock and key. Of course, that won't work either in the long run, but at least you can continue to live under the illusion for a while longer.

Originally posted by conwaylemmon

if i could do that with your car, the way you can do that with my song, then there would be no auto industry and no new cars. and I'm not talking about making an impact as an artist. I'm talking about making a living.

I disagree.

There will always be individuals who wish to express their creative energies by designing and building new versions on a theme, cars are no different.

There are infinite ways of making a living from creativity. The current paradigm for audio/video distribution has expired. TPB is simply one of the vehicles CREATED to assist the paradigm shift.

I predict the patent will go the same way as the copyright. We are evolving, thank god.

You need to move with the times or die, sorry. No point pissing into the hurricane.

Most people pirate software they have no intention of EVER buying. So saying that is loss of potential profits is nonsense.

Morals and concience? Well consumers are being screwed EVERY day with everything they buy so what's the difference when the tables are turned?

Some of you say that if nobody pays for software, movies or music, then noone would bother making it anymore....This is wrong as well. Look at the MILLIONS of original and entertaining Youtube videos out there many of them movies, or short films with T.V. worthy quality. Look at the exceptional software and gaming modifications people are doing for free. Look at the TONS of good original music that is available for free....
Look at the mind boggling number of collective free online encyclopedias like Wiki, that offer the knowledge of the entire world at the click of the button, without the $100,000 tuition of a Harvard College class.


It doesn't take steel or fabric, nails or glue, factories or hammers to create a series of ones and zeroes. People are seeing that more and more, and soon, No one, will pay for it. LIke it should be.


You want to make money doing commerce on the Internet? Then go back to selling tangible goods. Last I heard, it's still impossible to go to www. bestbuy.com, click and download a dinning set!




[edit on 19-4-2009 by manbird12000]

reply to post by manbird12000


So using that logic there will soon be no more Professional entertainment because no-one is willing to pay for it?

No more $200,000,000 movies. No "Terminator:Salvation", no "Transformers" etc. etc.

Great! Just Youtube and music made by amateurs. That's definitely a step forward.
That was sarcasm in case anyone missed it.

People that make films, music and software are skilled people and these things DO cost money to make. Telling them you are "voting with your wallet" and not paying anything for their work is just downright offensive.
That is what makes stealing these things as bad as stealing anything physical.
It's not driven by a need, it's a want, and some stupid Mentality Of Entitlement.

This will work itself out either way. I'd imagine the ISPs will be forced to monitor all traffic and charge each user individually for copyright content downloaded regardless of where it came from. I'm sure there will be ways around this but the bottom line is if they make it so hard to steal then most people won't.
The upside of this of course is that prices will come down as the customer base increases 100 fold.

People are now willing to pay money for things like Dark Nets to hide their IPs rather than just pay for the content. It's pathetic.

Everyone stealing is just driving the internet to become corporate controlled and monitored. Thanks for that.




[edit on 19-4-2009 by Marek]

[edit on 19-4-2009 by Marek]

Don't take this too personally Marek, but you are ranting out of your bottom.

Professional does not necessarily mean quality. Just look at the open source community for millions of examples. Whilst they produce a lot of crap, they also produce far better, more powerful, accessible and imaginative work than the pro's.

Come on man, do you really believe the nonsense you just posted?

Get with the times, use some creativity, change with the paradigm.

Fighting natural laws for your own petty agenda is a recipe for disaster, nothing else.

No matter what the authorities do to attempt to prevent the shift, it will be about as effective as an ashtray on a motorbike. Creativity will win. TPB may be closed down 5 years from now, ISP's may tighten their control, but for each and every obstacle put in the way of progress, 100 ideas will immediately be born get around them.

If you listen carefully to the press conference, you will hear that TPB owners are not fighting for their 'business' or for 'money' but for the freedom to share.

'There is nothing so powerful as an Idea whose time has come' misquote from Goethe.


[edit on 19/4/09 by RogerT]

reply to post by RogerT


Well, yes I do believe what I posted, being one of those professionals.

Are you suggesting we just all go get other jobs?

Maybe you could suggest a way for me to make a living as a recording engineer when no-one will pay for the final product?

Edit: Oh and thanks for calling my concern over keeping my job a "petty agenda". Sums up the general lack of understanding of the consequences of stealing that all these cyber-hippies have.

[edit on 19-4-2009 by Marek]

[edit on 19-4-2009 by Marek]

reply to post by Marek


First, you have to take your head out of your arse and realise that swimming against the tide is futile, and complaining about it robs you of your energy, vitality and creativity.

Perhaps first, you have to fake it till you make it, and be content to adopt a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" attitude.

Once you begin to feel the aliveness that comes from a true desire to contribute to, rather than profit from, your fellow man, you'll see it from a different perspective and effortlessly find infinite ways to take care of yourself financially.

But first, you gotta let go of being right and indignant, sorry.

reply to post by RogerT


What a load of rubbish.

Not one coherent thought amongst them.

It's so freaking obvious that if you steal from someone they will have less. There is no justification.

Originally posted by Marek
Edit: Oh and thanks for calling my concern over keeping my job a "petty agenda".

Unfortunately, this will be your greatest hurdle, that you take yourself so seriously.

Yes, indeed, your agenda to keep your job is petty in the context of natural law.

How significant do you really believe your job is compared to let's say, the daily death of more than 30,000 children due to poverty and hunger?

BTW, I am trying to genuinely respond to your request for help, not put you down. If your question was rhetorical and not genuine, please let me know and I will stop posting replies.

best
r

I'd argue that stealing something just because it's there is far more petty than worrying about how to feed my family.

I do take that very seriously, but maybe that's just me.

[edit on 19-4-2009 by Marek]

Originally posted by Marek
reply to post by RogerT

 

What a load of rubbish.

Not one coherent thought amongst them.

It's so freaking obvious that if you steal from someone they will have less. There is no justification.

Sorry you feel that way. But if that's how you intend to continue to think, then yes, better find another job/career. Good luck.

Originally posted by RogerT

Originally posted by Marek
reply to post by RogerT

 

What a load of rubbish.

Not one coherent thought amongst them.

It's so freaking obvious that if you steal from someone they will have less. There is no justification.

Sorry you feel that way. But if that's how you intend to continue to think, then yes, better find another job/career. Good luck.

Thanks for your help. Very enlightening.

"I want free stuff, so you better get another job"

Perfect

[edit on 19-4-2009 by Marek]

The companies loose some money sure.
But they gain equally or more on other stuff that is more "in phase" with our times technology.

Copying music and other stuff is not a new thing.
It was done long before cd's was invented. At that time music was copied in just as a large scale as today.
Cassettes were copied daily by the common people.

You might say, "The amount of copying was A LOT lower than today".
I would say: Yes... BUT.

If you compare the number of artists and their paycheck from that time with what they earn today and how many artists we have their loss would be just the same.

The funny thing is, the music/movie and book companies were all fine and dandy and they survived and the artists still got their payment.

However, there are of course victims to the file sharing.
But that would not be the companies who make them, but the small stores that rent movies and the small pc game shops to feel the effect of it.

But why?

I would say prizes.
If the prizes were more correct in reference of how much it costs to make them, then people would gladly pay them I reckon.

Once again.

The society and it's consciousness have developed into becoming more aware and the big companies that earn millions are unwilling to adapt their business so it fits the rest of the world.

I DO think it is morally wrong to share files, but I also see that, unless the companies adapt, people will always share their files and nothing will ever stop that. So if they wanna earn money they HAVE to adapt.

And to be able to control this they HAVE to embrace it.

Yes, of courses, prices are a bit of a bug bear to the downloaders, but it isn't the whole story.

who wants to put on their coat and shoes, drive 20 minutes to the video store in the rain, choose from a limited collection, wait in line, pay over-inflated prices and then do the whole thing again the next day just to take the damn thing back? How many of us incur late fees just because it's 'inconvenient' to make the trip?

Now, those who are internetized, want to click a link, download and watch, without waiting.

If I were running a movie studio, I'd offer super high speed downloads of the movie for a dollar a pop, or less, maybe I'd price it differently depending on the GDP of the resident's country. If you work out how much the studio makes from the box office take, I'll bet they don't get that much more currently, from the $6-$10 ticket fee.

That way, I could release my movie instantaneously to a market of several billion people, with virtually zero distribution costs, and almost no advertising.

At $1 for a download, how many more 'bums on seats' do you think they'd get?

Currently, with an average user connection, you can stream a hi-def movie for less than pennies. Downloading sometimes takes days to get the file, and then you can only d/l what's on offer.

This is already being done. Just look at the success of 'The Secret' and others.

The added bonus is the monopoly of the 'hollywood' big boys gets broken and we start to get some real, propaganda-less entertainment to boot. The pirates are doing us a big favor, forcing us to adapt to the new paradigm as well as accelerating the dissolution of the old. Change is good, say that 100 times a day, 'change is good'

As I said before in this thread, the money to be made now is in the service and delivery of the product, not the ownership. You earn by constantly adding value, not by jealously guarding the value you think you already have.

My guess is this is never going to be simply about the income, it's about control and power too.

Sadly, most of the 'innocents' in the industry will just not get it, as evidenced by the pig-headed posts and constant denial here, and will end up jobless after all sorts of stress and heart-ache.

They'll be sitting in their cars, homeless, whining about the free-loaders who ripped them off, rather than waking up, working with the flow and creating abundance for themselves, their families and their fellow man/woman.

The ego loves to blame others and complain. It gets to be right. For the petty ego, homeless, broke, hungry and right is far better than being wrong. It's a shame people choose to suffer in this way

[edit on 19/4/09 by RogerT]