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Do Navy subs operate in the Great Lakes?

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posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 09:47 PM
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I was wondering if its possible that either or both Canada and the US have regular Submarine operations in the Detroit River-Lake Erie region and the Great Lakes in general?
I and a few others whom live very near this area have seen on occasion what appears too be a large pole that comes out of the water around 20 too 25 feet and is quite a ways out from land and out into where the Big Boats approach from Erie going North on up the Detroit River.
A few other fishing friends have picked up very large schools or ??? on their fish finders
when in the deeper Erie as well as Huron and Lake Michigan areas and swear they seen a dark large possible sub like shadow in the depths.
A couple of us were talking about what if these supposed subs here in the heart of North America were not Nato.
Is it possible?
I know the US Navy brought a couple of their new hybrid Frigates through the Great Lakes but never a word of Subs around here other than museum pieces.




posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by VType
 

There are no US subs operating in the Great Lakes. Nor under Cali in secret underground Navy bases in the 'underground ocean'...
I forget who made that claim lol?

There are three sub bases, New London Connecticut (fast attacks), Kings Bay Georgia (SSBNs), and the one in Washington I forget the name of.

Edit to add: Having said that I have no idea if they have other operations, or training in the lakes, or even mini subs? But I doubt it, as the only Navy base near the lakes is the Great Lakes boot camp, and there are no ships there let alone subs of any kind.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by CityIndian]



posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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Well I'd be surprised if the americans have subs in the great lake. They would have to buid it there or to traval via the st-lawrence river (of witch I have a very nice view from my living room) It would be easy up until Montreal because it can be deep at some places but after they would have to pass into locks.

I don't know if they could built it there, but the St-Lawrence seaway is about 50-60 feet deep, so it would be easy to spot signs of the sub. Not to mention that they would have to pass a few locks to get there. Very likely to be seen by a lot of people.

If there is a sub in the great lake, I'd look for smuglers before the military. The drugs cartel from south america used submarine to bring coc aine into the US. Canada could bring drugs over the border with a sub, but given the lack of security at the US-Canada border there would be much easier way of doing this. Building and maintaning a sub is really expensive.



posted on Apr, 28 2009 @ 07:36 PM
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Well I have done some extensive Google Earth searching along the Erie and Right in the Buffalo,NY area there appears too be a Decommissioned US Navy Cruiser as well as a rather large 50's-60's era sub.
Ive also read that from time too time the US Navy does in fact run training missions on some deisel subs throughout the Great Lakes as well.
As far as Canadian subs operating in the Lakes there seems too be no mention whatsoever.
Im wondering if these drydocked or deccommisioned subs run tourist trips from time too time



posted on Apr, 28 2009 @ 07:42 PM
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Submarines were built in Wisconsin during WWII. IIRC there's one on display on the lakes somewhere. Also a destroyer, which kinda looks like a cruiser to land lubber.



posted on Apr, 28 2009 @ 07:57 PM
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This information, if it exists, is classified.

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This thread is being monitored by the U.S government and your personal information is being recorded. If you do not wish to have your personal information recorded you will not post in this thread any longer. If you do post in this thread after this warning, you have given up all rights to privacy, Internet related or otherwise.

... or so I've heard....



posted on Apr, 28 2009 @ 08:04 PM
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There are two WWII era subs on the Great Lakes.

Preserved War Ships.



posted on Apr, 28 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by VType
Ive also read that from time too time the US Navy does in fact run training missions on some deisel subs throughout the Great Lakes as well.
...


The US Navy has no diesel subs in commission any more.

If they did who would be training in them? Who would be operating them, as the US Navy Sub school no longer teaches diesel sub operation?

And Logician why would this be classified, none of the Sub base locations are classified? You can visit the Groton sub base, and tour a sub if you get an escort. Even the New London ship yard isn't classified.



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 12:22 AM
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Actually there was technically a US Navy sub in the great lakes this past year. When the USS Freedom was docked in Milwaukee for commissioning, the mini-sub carried aboard was out in front of it docked as well.

As for anything else, there is also as standing treaty that the Great Lakes are demilitarized. So there are neither US nor Canadian warships on active patrol in the waters.



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by VType
Well I have done some extensive Google Earth searching along the Erie and Right in the Buffalo,NY area there appears too be a Decommissioned US Navy Cruiser as well as a rather large 50's-60's era sub.
Ive also read that from time too time the US Navy does in fact run training missions on some deisel subs throughout the Great Lakes as well.
As far as Canadian subs operating in the Lakes there seems too be no mention whatsoever.
Im wondering if these drydocked or deccommisioned subs run tourist trips from time too time


Why would they train on diesel subs when they don't use them anymore?

It would be like teaching someone to ride a motorcycle by having them ride a bicycle.



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 03:10 AM
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reply to post by jd140
 



Because not that long ago, the USN was looking into buying some Aus built Collins Class diesel subs, with crews being trained in Australia.

Selected members of US Subs are already trained in Australia in diesel sub operations, same as some RAN sailors are trained by the USN for nuc subs.

And do not forget, Australian Subs are always traveling up your way, maybe one of them was invited to the lakes!!!!!



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by jd140Why would they train on diesel subs when they don't use them anymore?

It would be like teaching someone to ride a motorcycle by having them ride a bicycle.


Let's list some possibilities:

1. It was a nuclear sub.
2. It was a non-nuclear sub.
3. It looked like a sub, but wasn't.
4. It was a USO (Unsubmerged Submerged Object(?)).

#1, not likely.

#2, there are two WWII era subs on the US side of the Great Lakes. They MIGHT have had one out to test recent engine rehab. Also, anybody know if the Canadian or Brits, etc., ever run a diesel boat up the St. Lawrence to show off for the locals?

#3, out of the four, I consider this the most likely.

#4, not going there.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 11:11 AM
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I've been on a sub on the Great Lakes, the USS Silversides. You can sleep on it if you like, it's pretty cool. I could never be a submariner, that has got to wear on you. At least modern subs are a little more comfortable.

That being said, the Great Lakes are demilitarized, with only Coast Guard type vessels allowed. It's not like Canada and the U.S. have to defend themselves from each other.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by Gawdzilla
 


Remember that a USO can be just about anything. It's amazing what washes up here on the shores of Lake Michigan sometimes. Everything from abandoned boats to boxes of cargo that fell off of ships.

There are also innumerable shipwrecks in the lakes, especially on the southern end of Huron and Superior. A sunken ship can really look like a submarine and so can a lot of the other weird stuff that is at the bottom of those lakes.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
That being said, the Great Lakes are demilitarized, with only Coast Guard type vessels allowed. It's not like Canada and the U.S. have to defend themselves from each other.


Well, not any more...that treaty demilitarising the Great Lakes came out of the War of 1812.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Well, not any more...that treaty demilitarising the Great Lakes came out of the War of 1812.


Nevertheless, the Great Lakes do not have permanent Navy forces from either side that guard/patrol them. Both sides from time to time may have a boat there for show/PR purposes but that's it.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:00 PM
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I wouldn't say that subs in the Great Lakes are impossible.

Who would have thought that there are Navy subs in Lakes in Idaho.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by testrat
 


If you're talking about the Dolly Varden, it's a model not a real full size sub along the with Whitefish, used for research by the Model Engineering and Support Facility.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:31 PM
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I don't know about the Great Lakes, but I know that there have been subs used in Crater Lake in Oregon.

www.usgs.gov...
www.nps.gov...



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by CityIndian

Originally posted by VType
Ive also read that from time too time the US Navy does in fact run training missions on some deisel subs throughout the Great Lakes as well.
...


The US Navy has no diesel subs in commission any more.

If they did who would be training in them? Who would be operating them, as the US Navy Sub school no longer teaches diesel sub operation?


Not precisely true.

The USS Blueback (SS-581), Barbel Class, is the last of the US Navy's diesel subs. It was the very last of the non-nuclear submarines to join the Navy.

Although it is "officially" decommissioned, and no longer appears on the National Naval Register, it is still manned by a skeleton crew of retired Navy personnel who are paid by the museum where it is moored. Once a month they have overnight and weekend "missions" where they take museum patrons out into the Willamette River. So, it still functions, but not as an "official" Navy vessel.

(My daughter loves that sub, and has ever since she was 3. At least once a year she insists that we go on one of their overnight tours. She's especially eager for next year when she can go on the weekend missions without parental supervision. All of the crewmen know her by name and swear she must have been a seaman in her previous life.)

I would suspect that there are other diesel subs that have been obtained by other museums that do similar things. According to the National Register of Historic Landmarks, there is the USS Silversides (SS/AGSS-236), a Gato Class submarine, in Muskegon Michigan that is occasionally towed into Lake Michigan.



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