Obama wants to build a nationwide light rail system

Originally posted by poet1b

You don't think you can be enslaved by powerful corporations, that government is the only threat to liberty? You don't think corporations use propaganda to fool the masses into becoming their slaves? If so, you have been bamboozled. If you really think that people demanding that government do that which it was created to do is nothing but begging for government to save them, when the purpose of government is to serve the people, then you have already answered these questions. Wake up and smell the coffee.

I dont think I can be enslaved by powerful corporations. Name 1 way they can enslave me?

If you thnk you are being enslaved by powerful corporation now wait until you give over too much control of your life to the government and then you will know what enslavement is. Just ask someone who used to live in the old USSR or the people that risk their lives just to escape from Cuba.

No I dont think corporations use propaganda to fool the masses to becoming their slaves. What are you even talking about? If you have ever been enslaved by a corporation than you must be weak minded.

Government is not there to serve our every whim. They are there to create a system of law and order and to protect us from external threats and each other. Government should have never been in the business of doing stuff for people outside of that.

I dont remember the founding fathers saying anything about a horse in every barn and a steak on every plate. They didnt see that as governments role. They saw governments role as a necessary evil to keep law and order. They feared out of control government, that is why they threw in the second amendment to protect the people from a government gone crazy.

There wouldnt even have to be lobbyists if the government wasnt interfering in business. If you have a government that just creates all these unnecessary incentives and bull crap to try to make businesses do what they want, and if you didnt have government handing out money to certain causes there would not be a need for lobbyists.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

[edit on 21-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Corporations can enslave you by swindling you out of your property, violating your rights by locking your out of opportunity through the establishment of oligarchies and monopolies, just like any crook can deprive you of property by stealing from you.

You need to go read the constitution. Nobody said that government should act on the whims of the people, but government clearly has a role in looking out for the welfare of the people, regulating interstate and international commerce, along with numerous other responsibilities like setting standards, and protecting intellectual property rights. Government most certainly has a right to make laws to prevent corrupt business practices.

Have you paid any attention to what is going on with our economy? If anything, over the last eight years government has been acting on the whims of corporations because people like you think anybody to the left of Reagan is a communist. Sorry if you don't want to hear that, but you have some major denial going on if you don't see how much power and influence wealth has over peoples lives.

You said:
"Corporations can enslave you by swindling you out of your property, violating your rights by locking your out of opportunity through the establishment of oligarchies and monopolies, just like any crook can deprive you of property by stealing from you. "

So what corporation has enslaved you? What corporation has stolen your money?

You said:
"You need to go read the constitution. Nobody said that government should act on the whims of the people, but government clearly has a role in looking out for the welfare of the people, regulating interstate and international commerce, along with numerous other responsibilities like setting standards, and protecting intellectual property rights. Government most certainly has a right to make laws to prevent corrupt business practices."

I agree with this. Government already has 99.9999999% of the laws that do this. Is it the corporations fault that they dont enforce them or make the penalties harsher?

Also, it doesnt say anywhere in there about redistributing wealth or bailing out companies or building a new rail system either. In fact I am pretty sure the constitution talks about the government not being able to compete with private business. So they dont really have the right to build anything that a private business could build.


You said:
"Have you paid any attention to what is going on with our economy? If anything, over the last eight years government has been acting on the whims of corporations because people like you think anybody to the left of Reagan is a communist. Sorry if you don't want to hear that, but you have some major denial going on if you don't see how much power and influence wealth has over peoples lives. "

This is always going to be true. Some one is always going to have the wealth and the power and the influence. Do you want that in the hands of corrupt politicians or do you want it to be possible that you could become the wealthy one day if you make the right choices.




[edit on 21-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


No corporation has ever succeeded in enslaving me, but many corporation have stolen from me. Ah, but in moy opinion, a great many people have allowed themselves to become slaves to our current economic system, they just don't know it, or want to know it.

I would say that the government currently has way too many laws. It isn't about how many laws the government writes, it about evenly enforcing a fair set of laws. The problem is that corporations and other institutions have succeeded in fooling enough of the people into turning their backs on participating in our government, allowing corporations to develop too much influence, and thus our legal system has become badly twisted in favor of corrupt private sector politicians, who are the people who control our corporations.

You need to remember that it was the creation of our constitutional government that allows us to establish our rights in the first place. I don't want my life to be controlled by any corrupt politicians of any sort, be they working in government, or in the private sector as as corporate executives, they are all politicians. It seems that you would rather blame our government for all of our current economic problems. This is a bunch of nonsense, our economic problems exist because our corporations have screwed the system up. It was the the corporate executives (politicians) who screwed up their own companies, not the government. Don't you think that these corporations should start taking some responsibility for their failures instead of blaming it on government.

Right now a majority of the people in our country want to see our government start spending money on our infrastructure, and that would be a step in the right direction in my opinion, and if the means raising the taxes on the super rich, I am all for it, because in my opinion, the super rich have created this current mess, and they are the people who should pay off the huge national debt built up by giving them huge tax breaks along with enacting deregulation plans.

That is where I disagree. Not everyone that is super rich created this mess. Look at Warren Buffet. One of the major problems in this current economic situation is the use of derivatives. Warren Buffet warned about this 5-10 years ago. He spent millions of dollars ridding his companies of these, so he wouldnt get caught up in this mess.

Did the federal government listen or doing anything to resolve the problem before it became a crisis? No

So should Warren Buffet have his billions taxed when he is not part of the problem?

So you are going to tax the hell out of him and Bill Gates. Neither have which have any hand in this mess. Both of which are putting their money together to help everyone in the world in a strategic way?



[edit on 21-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

wow you people.

the biggest entity in this country that is swindling property and taking things from you is this current government

taxes,imminent domain and giving money to people who are too lazy to work and illegal immigrants.

yup free healthcare and social security to illegal immigrants.

corporations are not evil what is evil? our government they give you want they want you to have and take away when they think you have too much and then gives it away to someone who doesnt deserve it

reply to post by neo67


Thank you!
That is so true. They rob us of our money and dont give us much back in return. It drives me crazy how people get excited when there is a tax rebate. They dont realize they gave you back just a few percent of what they took from you.

At least with a company if you give them money they give you someting in return and you can choose whether you want to give them your money in the first place.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

[edit on 21-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

[edit on 21-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Warren Buffet is indeed in my opinion an exception man, a financial genius, and I certainly don't blame him for this financial situation, I also suspect that he made a great deal of money riding these bubble economies that have been created by foolish deregulation policies.

MAYBE, you might want to look at what Warren's opinion is on the matter?

Warren E. Buffett was his usual folksy self Tuesday night at a fundraiser for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) as he slammed a system that allows the very rich to pay taxes at a lower rate than the middle class.

Buffett cited himself, the third-richest person in the world, as an example. Last year, Buffett said, he was taxed at 17.7 percent on his taxable income of more than $46 million. His receptionist was taxed at about 30 percent.

Buffett said that was despite the fact that he was not trying to avoid paying higher taxes. "I don't have a tax shelter," he said. And he challenged Congress and his audience to see what the people who "clean our offices" are taxed, to loud applause.

Buffett said that he and other privileged Americans must do more to help the less fortunate.

Gates on the other hand is in my opinion the worlds greatest lottery winner, who practiced monopolistic policies to destroy competition and manipulate the markets.

You really need to look into these things before making such statements.

I think Warren Buffet would be willing to pay 90% income taxes if it would stabilize our monetary system, and get our country back on the road to prosperity, as long as all the other super rich people had to pay the same rates.

In 1945 government was far deeper in debt than we are now, and they still built our nations Interstate highway system while paying back that debt, with supre high taxes on the rich. This was followed by one of the longest periods of prosperity in our nations history.

You got a problem with prosperity or something?

reply to post by poet1b


No I am not against prosperity. The reason we were prosperous after WW2 has nothing to do with taxing the heck out of the rich or building highways. We were hugely prosperous because almost every factory and all the infrastructure in Europe and Asia was destroyed. We were fortunate that we could protect our mainland. We were the only people left with the ability to produce most things for several years.

reply to post by neo67


If corporations support government giving SS, and the big gimme, medicaid, to illegal immigrants, than they are just as evil as government. Who do you think hires those illegals? Who do you think works in the homes of the super rich cleaning their houses for slave wages?

The average working person clearly pays too much tax in this country, while the rich pay far too little.

If you don't want to take it from me, listen to Warren Buffett.

Brand new nationwide POV operated electric rail system is just what we need in this country, to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil, insurance, interest rates, and all that other stuff that comes from having to buy automobiles.

reply to post by poet1b


I agree Bill Gates was/is a piece of work. I get a kick out that guy. He kicked so much butt when he was younger, and to him it was all just like playing a basketball game. He is a brilliant man who plays rough to win. I dont really fault him for that though. He just pushed the limits to see how far and fast he could go. Now he is going to take all those qualities and apply them to making the world a better place.

Check out this thread I created that gives more details about exactly what the plan is.

ATS: The plan thread!

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Then why did we have two or three recessions in the fifties? Europe was concentrating on rebuilding, and the only money they had was what they borrowed from us in order to rebuild. That was where their money went, and then we forgave them their debts.

Crack open a book, starting reading about some of this stuff.

What are you afraid of, figuring out that Rush is an idiot?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by neo67

 

If corporations support government giving SS, and the big gimme, medicaid, to illegal immigrants, than they are just as evil as government. Who do you think hires those illegals? Who do you think works in the homes of the super rich cleaning their houses for slave wages?

The average working person clearly pays too much tax in this country, while the rich pay far too little.

If you don't want to take it from me, listen to Warren Buffett.

Brand new nationwide POV operated electric rail system is just what we need in this country, to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil, insurance, interest rates, and all that other stuff that comes from having to buy automobiles.

geez poet hate corporate america all you want too nothing anyone says will change that opinion.


the rich paying to little tax in this country is total bs you know this the top few percent pays for the majority tax in this country.


The latest data show that a big portion of the federal income tax burden is shoul­dered by a small group of the very richest Americans. The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per­cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes. These are proportions of the income tax alone and don’t include payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare.

the comfortable life you are living right now was made through the "evil corporations"

you dont have to buy anything made by or from corporations boycott if you will but you cannont boycott the federal government.


i will listen to warren buffet if hes got a stock tip but that it noone can be right about everything all the time its a statistical impossiblity so thanks but no thanks.

to get down to the bones of this thread in american culture the car is king- mass transit sucks people like the freedom to pick up and go whenever they feel like it and go whereever they feel like it and mass transit doesnt fit that bill


those evil corporations are the reason your sitting there right now using a cheap and mass produced intel or amd processor and cheap dsl or cable. for example.

however anything the government does always equates to them taking more money from you in some way shape or form and giving nothing back
when you pay a corporation you know what your getting and you dont expect nothing in return.

in my book big government will always be the greater evil....

last post in this thread moving on.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by neo67]

reply to post by poet1b


LOL, I think Rush Limbaugh is the biggest jackass on Earth! Maybe we found something we can agree on.

I will try to brush up on that period of history. Got any suggestions?

Cool,as usual,the majority of people on this site who claim to "deny ignorance" refuse to recognize that the system which they are completely enslaved to doesn't work anymore.

The system which you defend is worn out,do you not notice that your so called "freedoms",in reality enslave you?.

Is the problem not so much that you must pay more and more for the same old crap,or that your wages have been frozen for the last 15 years?...

Well.....which?.

Light rail won't fix crap for the long term,it will make it easier for all of us destitute fkrs to get around,while independent transportation will be reserved for the rich,same with TV,same with radio.

You can see the truth if you wipe the crust off of your eyes,and then open them.

You can also glean something of the truth by reading the constitution,it wasn't written with you in mind,it was written to protect "men of means".

What does that mean to you?.

Deny Reality.

Industry brought this country to where it WAS,and that is the only way it will ever return to what it WAS.

We need the return of industries that produce something of substance,not infrastructure enhancements,but repair,not light rail if the components are not built here in this country,...........

Bla!!!.

Hows about we all buy bicycle,and shut down the health club industries?,stiff the petroleum industries too nobody needs either of em if they get excersize getting around,build some bicycle infrastructure so that we can get around without getting run over by ravenous insane cage monkeys on a mission to get a big mac.

Of course nobody really wants any improvement,they just wanna do as little as possible.

What happened to the U.S of A you ask?.

This country really needs help.

Europe is awesome,this place is a joke when it comes to getting around.

America's addiction to the automobile,like any other love affair,when it fails to deliver any real reward or benefit,must end.

Move on,but move carefully.

I could go on and on,but if you don't get what I am saying,really,what is the point?.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by chiponbothshoulders]

reply to post by chiponbothshoulders


Well since you seem to know everything and the rest of us are ignorant, could you please explain how you would fix this mess?

reply to post by neo67


I don't hate or love corporations any more than government. I just recognize that corporations are every bit as much of the problem as government, if not more.

The super rich are not the top 1% of taxpayers. Do you really think that one in every 100 people is worth millions of dollars? The top .01% of earners would be more like it. What they pay in taxes is far less than their portion of the nations wealth, and they should be paying taxes in proportion to the the wealth they own.

The top 10% of wage earners, minus the top .01%, pay too much in taxes, but it is the top .01% that are getting the free ride, receiving far more service from government than they pay for. The bottom 50% of earners are mostly made up of two groups, the first being retirees, who paid far higher taxes all their lives, the next being young people who have just entered the work force, or are going to school, or serving in the military, and so make very little money. Most of these people will go on to earn far higher salaries and pay considerably high tax rates.

Who told you that

"the comfortable life you are living right now was made through the "evil corporations""?

Cause man, if you really believe this, then you need to go through de-programming. You have seriously been sold a bill of goods. If corporations deserve the credit for everything that gives us our comfortable lives, then why aren't people in third world nations, where corporations also exist, living the same comfortable life, especially since often the corporations here are the same ones there?

Considering that the biggest difference between the first world nations and the third world nations are the governments, you might want to re-think your opinion of corporations.

The car is king here in the U.S. because corporations have made sure this is the way things are, because cars maximize their ability to strip wealth and independence away from people. You don't see this because you have been programmed to worship corporations, and there are too many like you in this country, and that is why we are currently circling the drain.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


That is nice to hear, my estimate of your intelligence has risen considerably.

It is just that you make so many of these statementsw about how government is baaad, corporations gooood, that sounds alot like the things ditto heads like to say.

These days, I get most of my information by searching the internet. In this way, you can get history from numerous sources, and therefore, in my opinion, get a far broader perspective.

Here is something you might want to consider. The U.S. wouldn't have a trade deficit if it wasn't for our importation of oil. Our nations per capita consumption of oil is off the charts. Our current primary mode of transportation is horribly wasteful, and within a few generations, we will have consumed almost all the the easily accessible oil resources on our planet.

Our oil addiction is a serious problem.