CNN cover - "Texas governor says secession possible"

reply to post by Mak Manto


I knew oak was dense, ironwood was even more dense, but you're really impressing me.

My opinion nor your opinion will matter.

Historically, the same identical events repeat themselves, and if you took the time to do a bit of study and learn, you could take the blinders off and view the process for what it is.

Eventually, yes, certain states after agreeing on the principles, would in fact join. This too, is a oft-repeated practice.

It's called "strength in numbers."

Texas, of course, is a state with much to offer. New Jersey or Rhode Island are no more than good sized counties in much of the country.

The same principles that work in the micro world also work in the macro world.

Do you not find it interesting in the least that there was a Confederate States that already pulled away from the US?

Did you note that they didn't do so all together, but trickled in?

Did you note that initially, there was not one single leader they all followed? Did you happen to notice that they were seeking to toss off that which denied them the right to self-determination?

Do they not teach history anymore, nor the concepts that can be learned by such study?

People are people, and there are certain behavior trends and characteristics shared, regardless of nationality, culture, continent, or millennia.

For someone to tell me that this is going to continue is just beyond foolish.

For someone to suggest that this time, at this place, with this people will violate every single historical example is ludicrous.

You get the same reactions to the same stimuli. Always.

You can wish all you want, but every single time, there are almost identical patterns.

This current nation will eventually fall, and the rate of deterioration is rapidly accelerating.

I'm just curious as to what event will bring down the house.

And how long it will take to restore order and a new nation/nations.

And which states will eventually join in.

Just like before.

[edit on 26-9-2009 by dooper]

reply to post by Amaxium


CNN is becoming more and more "FOX-ey" every day...
Compare their headline to the first sentence of the actual article:
"Texas Gov. Rick Perry isn't ruling out the possibility his state may one day secede from the nation"

Duh! Of course it's "possible" ("one day"), of course you can't "rule it out". Anyone with a minimum of common sense would know you can't "rule out" anything in politics or history. *Especially* if you have a lot of angry citizens hanging on your every word...
I don't think it means much.

reply to post by dooper

You're right. Our opinions don't matter, so let's look at this historically.

It was tried once, and it failed.

At the beginning of the thread, most of you said that Perry was going to lead the charge.

Now, most of you are saying that Perry will not be involved with seceding from the US.

You just changed several major areas in your secession.

You don't have a group of people who you're looking to to set up a government.

reply to post by Mak Manto


This may come as a surprise, but history goes a bit farther and deeper than 1861.

Even for Texas.

And by the way, the second time around is usually the charm.

The South of today is not the agrarian society it was the first time around.

Now, the North is a rust-belt, it's broke, it's in the hole, it's too liberal to take up arms - you know how those fairy liberals are.

Since you live in Pennsylvania, look around Pittsburg. Harrisburg, and Allentown. Philadelphia has a beautiful skyline, but business is dropping off badly, and folks are packing up and leaving.

And it's much, much worse in New York, New Jersey, Michigan, on and on.

But don't concern yourself. Not only can the Northeast NOT afford another aggression against the South, they don't have the stomach for it.

No one is going to war over this. The country is already coming apart. This country cannot sustain the idiotic crap Washington is pulling. Right now the US population is being told, "let them eat cake."

I never said anything about the Governor of Texas, other that point out the uniqueness of any Governor even hinting at such a thing.

The wheels are coming off the wagon. Secession? We'll be doing good to hold individual states together.

And Texas is in much better shape than most.

You'll be good with holding individual states together?

So, this isn't about Texas and other states gaining freedom, it's about Texas gaining more power, correct?

More states that leave, they'll join with the "Republic of Texas?"

If secession is what you're looking for, it's not going to happen. Texas, and no other state is going to secede.

But if it's a civil war that you're trying to brew, the United States will not allow innocent lives to be lost.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
You'll be good with holding individual states together?

So, this isn't about Texas and other states gaining freedom, it's about Texas gaining more power, correct?

More states that leave, they'll join with the "Republic of Texas?"

If secession is what you're looking for, it's not going to happen. Texas, and no other state is going to secede.

But if it's a civil war that you're trying to brew, the United States will not allow innocent lives to be lost.

Once again, you are twisting words. I do not know if you do not realize it, or if you do it on purpose.

But think of this . . . to even get Perry to say what he did, even to try and get votes, would mean that the number of people that want an independent Texas is far greater than you think.

It isn't.

The only reason why you don't consider that poll true is that because the OVERWHELMING majority has stated that they don't want secession.

So, once again, the majority doesn't want secession. Most people don't want Texas to secede.

You can't secede on a minority of people...

Originally posted by Mak Manto
It isn't.

The only reason why you don't consider that poll true is that because the OVERWHELMING majority has stated that they don't want secession.

So, once again, the majority doesn't want secession. Most people don't want Texas to secede.

You can't secede on a minority of people...

Tell that to the founding fathers of the USA.

Tell that to the founding fathers of Texas.


And once again, I ask . . . if such a small percentage of people want secession, then why would Perry go that far out on a limb . . . for such a small percentage of votes? That does not make sense, my friend.

Because, Perry knows he's popular enough he'll get the mainstream vote, but if he goes, "Well, Texas is getting tired of President Obama, and Texas is tough! We could be able to secede if we want to!" he'll get the minority vote of people who want to secede.

In the end, Perry wins.

This is all about Perry becoming governor again; that's it. He doesn't care if Texas secedes or not. He's furthering his own political agenda, and he's using the people of Texas to do so.

The poll that Mak is so in love with was taken back in April. A lot has happened since April. I would like to see a poll taken today. Results could be quite different cause people are alot madder now that they have seen the liar-in-chief in action.

BTW, the percentage of republicans that would be in favor of Texas secession is 48%.

Do you believe that if Republicans are all for it, that's going to make a difference?

Even the majority of Republicans don't want secession!

How much more can you ask the people?

The majority of Texas doesn't want secession!

reply to post by Mak Manto


Again you are not a Texan Mak?

So how do you know what Texans want?

Have you been reading what Texans on this thread have been saying or do you just wanna continue referencing some internet poll.

Do your own poll on this thread. Count the number of Texans for and against.

Then you will have a truthful reflection of how Texans feel.

[edit on 28-9-2009 by titorite]

I've been reading what about five or six Texans want in this thread.

The numbers, though, in the polls, don't lie.

Even when the Republican number is brought up, it's still the minority.

So, Titor, in the end, are you going to secede from the US by the five or six Texans in this thread, or will you stay that the majority wants?

Because, it seems, you're just looking to secede despite the majority saying they don't want to.

reply to post by Mak Manto


Amaxium, slicobacon, XTexan, slimpickens93, NJE03 , Lemon.Fresh , dooper, titorite, dariousg , sadchild01 , Desert Dawg , getreadyalready , Deus_Brandon , liveandlearn, inthesticks, mopusvindictus, sassylassy, that makes 17.

Not 5 not 6 SEVENTEEN You math is on par with your reading comprehension. I even left out few folks who explained "How Texas could do it" but the did not express specific support. I also left out the folks that sarcastically supported the idea.

I did include non Texans but after going over 9 pages it is clear YOU have the personal issue with it and you have posted on this thread more than anyone else.

Now Member Whaa, being a Texan has a both understanding and a stake in this issue. His opinion I respect and consider. You Mak Manto, have a total lack of understanding and no stake in the issue. That is why I hopped off this crazy train of a thread for awhile. Then after seeing you bump it again to push your opinion I just thought I would double check to see if you ever counted the voices of this thread.

Seventeen by my count... Not six not five Seventeen!

17 PEOPLE, next to hundreds in a poll that states they don't want secession!

75% of people don't want secession!

You're not listening to the people from the get go. How will you listen to them when you have your own government?

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Because, Perry knows he's popular enough he'll get the mainstream vote, but if he goes, "Well, Texas is getting tired of President Obama, and Texas is tough! We could be able to secede if we want to!" he'll get the minority vote of people who want to secede.

In the end, Perry wins.

So he goes out on a limb . . . and looks like a lunatic to everyone else, for a few thousand votes


riiiight . . .

Because crazies always get elected . . .

This is all about Perry becoming governor again; that's it. He doesn't care if Texas secedes or not. He's furthering his own political agenda, and he's using the people of Texas to do so.

You keep bringing that up like we do not know that already

I think people automatically equate secession and isolationism.
Why can't Texas be trading partners with the remaining 49 United States?
Why can't Texas import products it needs from Mexico or the U.S./Canada?

Just because they become their own country doesn't mean they will be a country alone all to themselves.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
17 PEOPLE, next to hundreds in a poll that states they don't want secession!

75% of people don't want secession!

You're not listening to the people from the get go. How will you listen to them when you have your own government?

I'm afraid I'm going with the timing of that poll on this one. I'll bet that if you asked the same questions now, many more would be in support of such an idea.

Many were still riding the fake wave of "hope" created by Obama's election win, and now that it has been shown consistently that Obama is just towing the same old line, people are mad as hell.

But... I'm with you on democratic process, the decision is down to the majority. If or when there is another vote, the numbers will change, and if it shows that secession is supported by the majority, you'll just have to accept that this was the democratic process too.

The funny thing about democracy though, is that most call foul when they find that the majority did win, and that the majority opinion goes against theirs.

Secession is a bigger can of worms than most people appreciate, and although Texas is perhaps uniquely suited among the several states to become a nation in its own right, I think the average Texan would be very surprised at just how dicey things would get as a consequence of the things most people wouldn't think about.

For example:
Upon the secession of Texas from the union, the United States Constitution and any of the rights afforded by it which were not echoed in Texas law would expire for Texans.

Without the 14th amendment, questions would likely arise over exactly who is and is not a citizen of the Republic of Texas. A Mexican-American who now has American citizenship by virtue of being born in Texas to resident aliens or to illegals might well lose his citizenship. Likewise an Oklahoma resident who had moved across the border into Texas just a year or two before the secession. Arguments over matters such as this could lead to a counter-revolution almost as soon as the secessionists gained the upper hand either politically or militarily (i'm not assuming that Texan secession would have to be military in nature).

Texas would also find itself living next to a very different United States than it is used to. With the largest of the red states gone, and likely others on their way to the door, it is probable that US politics would swing wildly to the left, opening up the possibility that Texas might unexpectedly find itself living next door to a communist nation and facing a refugee crisis, especially if what was left of the US proved less prosperous for its immigrant population than it once was. There would even be some possibility of a civil war in what remained of the US spilling over the Texas border even in the event of an amicable split.

It is hard to know exactly how the new United States would view Mexico either. With much of the Mexican border now a distant foreign problem, the US could conceivably abandon Mexico to the drug cartels, and in that case Texas would likely find itself at war with narco-terrorists almost immediately, as said traffickers gained strength in Mexico and began feeling out their new opportunities in the fledgling Republic to their North.

Likewise, if other states did begin to seceede, some would most likely petition for annexation by Texas, and depending on their economic strength, would not necessarily be attractive partners. This means that Texas might have to choose between taking responsibility for weaker neighbors or having failed states on its borders.

And last but not least there is the matter of foreign affairs. Texas does enjoy a reputation, whether deserved or not, as the seat of many of the traits that our allies dislike in our country. Recognition and favorable trade agreements with former allies may not be a given for Texas.

So despite its advantages, Texas could readily find itself alone and surrounded by enemies at the same time that it was coping with the intial economic shock of the transition, and their potentially very impressive nation might come out stillborn.

As with any revolution, the aftermath would depend heavily on the wealth and standing of its patrons, not to mention their positions on government and eachother.

If you think revolution is a simple business, imagine that Yorktown had gone horribly wrong at the end, with Washington killed by one of the last shots fired in the battle, leaving Alexander Hamilton to finish what little remained of the war and lay the foundation of the American presidency, quite possibly over the cold dead bodies of James Madison and Thomas Jefferson (the later of whom President Hamilton killed in a duel during his third term, not long before his own assassination at the hands of Aaron Burr).

reply to post by Mak Manto

I've been reading what about five or six Texans want in this thread.

The numbers, though, in the polls, don't lie.

Oh good grief. Polls are run and published by the mass media. The mass media has been owned by the bankers since 1917. Polls lie ALL the time. they are designed to lie. Unless you see ALL of the actual poll you can not know if it is true.

Headline EXAMPLE:
New medical study shows eating Beef causes cancer!!!

The actual study shows a very slight statistical bias for one type of cancer. Another part of the study show a much higher correlation that beef eating women have a lower risk of breast cancer.

The banker controlled media spins stories any way they want. They even out right lie. In 1970 there was nation wide TV coverage showing a major riot on the Purdue University Campus. Scared the heck out of my parents. THERE was no riot. If they mainstream media intentionally broadcast fake riot footage you do not think they would fake a small thing like a poll???


When you look at ANYTHING today always ask "Who benefits?" if you want the truth.