You'll be good with holding individual states together?

So, this isn't about Texas and other states gaining freedom, it's about Texas gaining more power, correct?

More states that leave, they'll join with the "Republic of Texas?"

If secession is what you're looking for, it's not going to happen. Texas, and no other state is going to secede.

But if it's a civil war that you're trying to brew, the United States will not allow innocent lives to be lost.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
You'll be good with holding individual states together?

So, this isn't about Texas and other states gaining freedom, it's about Texas gaining more power, correct?

More states that leave, they'll join with the "Republic of Texas?"

If secession is what you're looking for, it's not going to happen. Texas, and no other state is going to secede.

But if it's a civil war that you're trying to brew, the United States will not allow innocent lives to be lost.

Once again, you are twisting words. I do not know if you do not realize it, or if you do it on purpose.

But think of this . . . to even get Perry to say what he did, even to try and get votes, would mean that the number of people that want an independent Texas is far greater than you think.

It isn't.

The only reason why you don't consider that poll true is that because the OVERWHELMING majority has stated that they don't want secession.

So, once again, the majority doesn't want secession. Most people don't want Texas to secede.

You can't secede on a minority of people...

Originally posted by Mak Manto
It isn't.

The only reason why you don't consider that poll true is that because the OVERWHELMING majority has stated that they don't want secession.

So, once again, the majority doesn't want secession. Most people don't want Texas to secede.

You can't secede on a minority of people...

Tell that to the founding fathers of the USA.

Tell that to the founding fathers of Texas.


And once again, I ask . . . if such a small percentage of people want secession, then why would Perry go that far out on a limb . . . for such a small percentage of votes? That does not make sense, my friend.

Because, Perry knows he's popular enough he'll get the mainstream vote, but if he goes, "Well, Texas is getting tired of President Obama, and Texas is tough! We could be able to secede if we want to!" he'll get the minority vote of people who want to secede.

In the end, Perry wins.

This is all about Perry becoming governor again; that's it. He doesn't care if Texas secedes or not. He's furthering his own political agenda, and he's using the people of Texas to do so.

The poll that Mak is so in love with was taken back in April. A lot has happened since April. I would like to see a poll taken today. Results could be quite different cause people are alot madder now that they have seen the liar-in-chief in action.

BTW, the percentage of republicans that would be in favor of Texas secession is 48%.

Do you believe that if Republicans are all for it, that's going to make a difference?

Even the majority of Republicans don't want secession!

How much more can you ask the people?

The majority of Texas doesn't want secession!

I've been reading what about five or six Texans want in this thread.

The numbers, though, in the polls, don't lie.

Even when the Republican number is brought up, it's still the minority.

So, Titor, in the end, are you going to secede from the US by the five or six Texans in this thread, or will you stay that the majority wants?

Because, it seems, you're just looking to secede despite the majority saying they don't want to.

17 PEOPLE, next to hundreds in a poll that states they don't want secession!

75% of people don't want secession!

You're not listening to the people from the get go. How will you listen to them when you have your own government?

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Because, Perry knows he's popular enough he'll get the mainstream vote, but if he goes, "Well, Texas is getting tired of President Obama, and Texas is tough! We could be able to secede if we want to!" he'll get the minority vote of people who want to secede.

In the end, Perry wins.

So he goes out on a limb . . . and looks like a lunatic to everyone else, for a few thousand votes


riiiight . . .

Because crazies always get elected . . .

This is all about Perry becoming governor again; that's it. He doesn't care if Texas secedes or not. He's furthering his own political agenda, and he's using the people of Texas to do so.

You keep bringing that up like we do not know that already

I think people automatically equate secession and isolationism.
Why can't Texas be trading partners with the remaining 49 United States?
Why can't Texas import products it needs from Mexico or the U.S./Canada?

Just because they become their own country doesn't mean they will be a country alone all to themselves.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
17 PEOPLE, next to hundreds in a poll that states they don't want secession!

75% of people don't want secession!

You're not listening to the people from the get go. How will you listen to them when you have your own government?

I'm afraid I'm going with the timing of that poll on this one. I'll bet that if you asked the same questions now, many more would be in support of such an idea.

Many were still riding the fake wave of "hope" created by Obama's election win, and now that it has been shown consistently that Obama is just towing the same old line, people are mad as hell.

But... I'm with you on democratic process, the decision is down to the majority. If or when there is another vote, the numbers will change, and if it shows that secession is supported by the majority, you'll just have to accept that this was the democratic process too.

The funny thing about democracy though, is that most call foul when they find that the majority did win, and that the majority opinion goes against theirs.

Secession is a bigger can of worms than most people appreciate, and although Texas is perhaps uniquely suited among the several states to become a nation in its own right, I think the average Texan would be very surprised at just how dicey things would get as a consequence of the things most people wouldn't think about.

For example:
Upon the secession of Texas from the union, the United States Constitution and any of the rights afforded by it which were not echoed in Texas law would expire for Texans.

Without the 14th amendment, questions would likely arise over exactly who is and is not a citizen of the Republic of Texas. A Mexican-American who now has American citizenship by virtue of being born in Texas to resident aliens or to illegals might well lose his citizenship. Likewise an Oklahoma resident who had moved across the border into Texas just a year or two before the secession. Arguments over matters such as this could lead to a counter-revolution almost as soon as the secessionists gained the upper hand either politically or militarily (i'm not assuming that Texan secession would have to be military in nature).

Texas would also find itself living next to a very different United States than it is used to. With the largest of the red states gone, and likely others on their way to the door, it is probable that US politics would swing wildly to the left, opening up the possibility that Texas might unexpectedly find itself living next door to a communist nation and facing a refugee crisis, especially if what was left of the US proved less prosperous for its immigrant population than it once was. There would even be some possibility of a civil war in what remained of the US spilling over the Texas border even in the event of an amicable split.

It is hard to know exactly how the new United States would view Mexico either. With much of the Mexican border now a distant foreign problem, the US could conceivably abandon Mexico to the drug cartels, and in that case Texas would likely find itself at war with narco-terrorists almost immediately, as said traffickers gained strength in Mexico and began feeling out their new opportunities in the fledgling Republic to their North.

Likewise, if other states did begin to seceede, some would most likely petition for annexation by Texas, and depending on their economic strength, would not necessarily be attractive partners. This means that Texas might have to choose between taking responsibility for weaker neighbors or having failed states on its borders.

And last but not least there is the matter of foreign affairs. Texas does enjoy a reputation, whether deserved or not, as the seat of many of the traits that our allies dislike in our country. Recognition and favorable trade agreements with former allies may not be a given for Texas.

So despite its advantages, Texas could readily find itself alone and surrounded by enemies at the same time that it was coping with the intial economic shock of the transition, and their potentially very impressive nation might come out stillborn.

As with any revolution, the aftermath would depend heavily on the wealth and standing of its patrons, not to mention their positions on government and eachother.

If you think revolution is a simple business, imagine that Yorktown had gone horribly wrong at the end, with Washington killed by one of the last shots fired in the battle, leaving Alexander Hamilton to finish what little remained of the war and lay the foundation of the American presidency, quite possibly over the cold dead bodies of James Madison and Thomas Jefferson (the later of whom President Hamilton killed in a duel during his third term, not long before his own assassination at the hands of Aaron Burr).