CNN cover - "Texas governor says secession possible"

I would never support fighting against Texas if it chose to secede nor would most Americans.

If Texas seceded you can guarantee the USA would fracture into blocks almost over night.

there might be some violence, but the Tanks wouldn't be rolling into Texas.

I'd bet anything this would look allot more like the collapse of the Soviet Union than the Civil War.

It's a fiction, that our armed forces would be coming home and gearing up for war in this day and age against a state that chose to secede, If a State the size of Texas chooses this, the United States of America will cease to be.

I almost think...

This could be a good thing, I would expect in due time, The Union would reform after States rights had been redefined and people once again had assurance that their local beliefs and laws would be respected again, strong state powers.

And frankly the United States just isn't the United States anymore with all this Federal Law mandating how we Live...

I would love to see a CURRENT poll!! I would love to see them Poll, TX, MS, GA, FL, OK, KS, AR, NM, AZ, and LA TODAY!

All the Oil Rich areas are in favor of secession! All the arable farmland is in favor of secession! All the hard-working blue-collar types are in favor of secession!

So, what would the "old" government be left with when the dust settles. Welfare recipients, bankers, and politicians!! That is going to make things pretty rough on them!! But, on the flipside, the "new" government would have the heart and soul of America! The hard-working farmers, and roughnecks, industrious folks! The small businesses, and innovators! The moral and upright backbone that the "old" government was taking advantage of to support their bankers, politicians, and welfare programs!

So "old" government would be completely inept, and toothless after the dust settled!

The "new" government would be vibrant and patriotic and financially solvent, and maybe, just maybe, we would offer to help those of you that stayed behind out of fear or stupidity!

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Once again you keep me on my toes as i find myself in total agreement with you mopusvindictus.

Very well said.

I also believe that eventually everything would be better for it...The states just might re-define their state rights and cast of the yoke of Federal UCC law.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Mopus, you are exactly right!

The temporary chaos would be frightening, and the few casualties here and there would be sad, but overall, the Republic could return to its glorious roots, and the Nation would be better off!

States would form 3 or 4 Unions amongst themselves, and eventually cooler heads would prevail, and a new "Union" would emerge on the basic precepts that our forefathers had laid out, and we would again be on top of the world! (Plus, we would forfeit a whole lot of debt!)

reply to post by dooper

It would be best if Vermont, Massachusetts and California stay with DC.

My feelings exactly

reply to post by titorite


Don't ya' just love it - arguing with idiots! Don't know a bloomin' thing about Texas, but always more than willing to spout "their" truth about what we are capable and not capable of doing.

I hope I am still alive the day Texas does leave the Union, and she will eventually, just to see all those that say "Texas couldn't survive" eat their words!

reply to post by dooper

What would happen is that any number of other states would follow suit, and when the dust had settled, and enough states had also pulled out - they'd likely call a Constitutional Convention - and form a government like was intended by our Founding Fathers.

Ok there are facts everyone is ignoring. Cap and trade and "green Energy aimed at killing Texas oil is one .

Agriculture is a big part of Texas. The US Congress is about to pass a bill that farmers absolutely HATE.

Waxman's bill takes the worst parts of the other dangerous "anti-food safety" bills out there now and makes a kind of frankenstein version.
Waxman's monster
1. ends US sovereignty over its own food supply, gutting our Constitutional control over our food supply and transferring it to the hands of multinationals like Monsanto, Tysons, Cargills, etc....


Another point is if the states lead by Texas leave the Union and then return to the Constitution MINUS the Federal Reserve, what happens to the trillions of dollars the US citizens supposedly owe the Banksters? We could just leave Washington DC and Massachusetts with the bill

You're not getting your wishes.

Perry will not absolve from the Union. It's hot air from him, and he knows it.

You're with the good ol' USA!

Though, I find it ironic on here.

When the former governor of Texas is no longer President, now, all of you want to leave.

And don't give me the crap of "It's Obama."

reply to post by Mak Manto


So you are down to your final argument, which no one is arguing with you about

No, a large group of members, along with me, agree that Texas would fail as a nation.

Your views on isolationism are dumb; besides, your economy would dwindle in a second.

For example, let's look at defense contractors. Now, if Texas were to become a nation, they would not be able to handle the business of a defense contractor, seeing they wouldn't have a formalized army.

All of your defense contractors that are within Texas would join the US, seeing they would be still working with them, and not with Texas.

Actually, a majority of businesses would probably leave Texas, seeing how financially unstable Texas would be when they would break off.

Also, I've been studying your power grid. There are several major problems with it if you become a nation. First, wind power is becoming a major innovator in alternative energies, but I see that when you have a lack of wind, it can cause an emergency within your power grid, causing Texas to cut power to several areas.

Also, thousands of people would lose jobs within important areas.

For example, NASA, in Houston, would leave, causing thousands for unemployment. The same with civilian jobs within government departments.

You're not thinking this through too much.

reply to post by Mak Manto


Mak, where are you from?

From where do you obtain this certainty?

I'm from Florida, but even I know enough everyday Texans to know you don't ever count them out for anything.

The guys I knew from Texas were always willing to fight at the drop of a hat, and wouldn't hesitate to drop theirs if that's what it took.

Your mistake is in thinking Texans are the only ones thinking along these lines. Trust me, they're not alone.

Once you get out of the big cities, out of Massachusetts, California, New York, and Vermont, the people are fed up with what attempts to pass as the United States.

One state passes legislation preventing the Fed from interfering with State gun laws, and a bunch follow with their own.

All it would take would be one state - just one. And we'd see this thing break up into smaller nations.

Many of the former Confederate states would rejoin, and this time, New Hampshire would likely join, as would many midwest states, and I'm not too sure about a couple of the Pacific northwest states.

But as long as the original Constitution were followed, I'm sure that Texas would have scores of states imitating their actions, and then combining.

And all that Federal Debt?

Let DC pay it.

They borrowed it. They can figure it out.

And this would be a much better nation than ever before.

[edit on 24-9-2009 by dooper]

You're once again going on the fact that you want it all about Texas.

"Many states will follow Texas."
"A lot of states will join Texas."

Yet, I don't see any other congressmen or governors saying that their states will be leaving the US.

Just Texas.

Only Texas is saying it, and as far as I have seen, Perry's been going on about it for a while now. So, probably after the election is over, he'll quiet down.

reply to post by Mak Manto


We'll just see.

Folks don't always reply honestly to polls, not all senators, representatives, and governors speak openly and honestly if you've noticed.

Still water runs deep.

And besides, probably if a poll had been taken in early 1776, 75% would have stated that they didn't want any problem with Britain.

Come to think of it, only about 10-12% fought anyway.

The other 88%-90% stayed home.

But it got done, didn't it?

reply to post by Mak Manto


Ya know, all it takes is one state to take the lead and others will follow. And if not the others states, Texas would be inundated with people wanting to move here and take up citizenship.

Their are many people with a pioneering spirit left in the US, not to mention the ones who just want to get outa dodge.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Mak Manto

 

We'll just see.

Folks don't always reply honestly to polls, not all senators, representatives, and governors speak openly and honestly if you've noticed.

Still water runs deep.

And besides, probably if a poll had been taken in early 1776, 75% would have stated that they didn't want any problem with Britain.

Come to think of it, only about 10-12% fought anyway.

The other 88%-90% stayed home.

But it got done, didn't it?

First off, unless you have evidence of polls, don't bring anything else up. What you just said, "if a poll had been taken in early 1776," is a clear opinion. It's not backed up by anything other then what you said.

Second, I agree with your point on governors and representatives not speaking truthfully.

So, under your logic, that can also fall to Perry too.

He may be just lying to the people of Texas to get more votes.

Originally posted by liveandlearn
reply to post by Mak Manto

 

Ya know, all it takes is one state to take the lead and others will follow. And if not the others states, Texas would be inundated with people wanting to move here and take up citizenship.

Their are many people with a pioneering spirit left in the US, not to mention the ones who just want to get outa dodge.

I don't disbelieve that there aren't people out there who would come to Texas if it separated from the US.

I just think that they clearly do not understand what it would take to set up a government for a nation.

What you have is a government for a state. You're not prepared for separation.

Which is why I said, I think it's hot air from Perry to get more votes.

Fight? Texas does not have to fight.

We have a right solely based on the 10th Amendment of the Constitution.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Military? 10-15% of all active-duty military are Texans. Including Pilots. Tx has National Guard, State Militia, Texas Army National Guard [36th Infantry & 49th Armored], Air National Guard with 2 full fighter wings – 1 airlift wing. Texas State Guard which includes 6 land and 1 maritime regiments + air and command. Texas Rangers.

Defense Industry. (We have over 65% of it.)

Foreign invasion???... We don’t need an army – most Texans own at least 6 rifles/shotguns. Remember - there are almost 30 million Texans.

Mexico invade? Not likely. Mexico is one of Texas's biggest importers of goods and exporters of goods.


Federal Funds?: Texans pay more in Federal taxes than they receive and much of what is received is not spent on Texans. Texans pay more than any state except Calif and would be the most if the disaster relief was not received.

Gross Domestic Product of TX: 1.245 Trillion (2008) Ahead of 183 independent nations.

Labor Force: approx 12 million

Texans paid $225.4 billion into the Federal tax system in 2005. State of Texas collected $77.5 billion in the 2008. That could leave a possible revenue of 300 billion.

Texas exports 151 billion (2006) – 28th globally
4% of that revenue put to military/defense would give TX 50 billion/yr and would rank it 5th on a global scale in military spending. More than 190 other independent nations.

Crude Oil? 4,613 million barrels FIRST in US. Self-sufficient in energy resources, on its own grid, oil, gas, natural gas, coal, nuclear energy, wind, solar and methane energy.

We refine over 85% of the gasoline in the United States.

We have Nasa and the communications. IT STAYS.

Computer Industry: we currently lead the nation in producing computer chips and communications:

Computer Industry - we currently lead the nation in producing computer chips and communications: Small places like Texas Instruments, Dell Computer, EDS, Raytheon, National Semiconductor, Motorola, Intel, AMD, Atmel, Applied Materials, Ball Semiconductor, Dallas Semiconductor, Delphi,
Nortel, Alcatel, Etc, Etc.

Health Centers - We have the largest research centers for Cancer research, the best burn centers and the top trauma units in the world and other large health planning centers.

We have enough colleges: UT, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rice, SMU, University of Houston, Baylor, UNT, Texas Women's University

There would still be plenty of FOOTBALL.

We have a ready supply of workers. (just open the border when we need some more).

We have control of the paper industry, plastics, insurance, etc.


We are totally self sufficient in beef, poultry, hogs and several types of grain, fruit and vegetables and lets not forget seafood from the gulf.


Last but not least: Texas would partner with Alaska and drill baby drill.


just sayin

reply to post by Mak Manto

I just think that they clearly do not understand what it would take to set up a government for a nation.

And that is why I said it would be difficult for a while in an earlier post and referred to people with a pioneering spirit in the last.

Granted there are folks who would move out in a minute, but most of us are die hard and Texas proud and do what has to be done to get where we need to be.

I am not doing research on this one as it has already been done in this thread.

reply to post by sassylassy


Sorry Sassy, but military and National Guard will not be joining Texas. For all intents and purposes, you better not see them as part of a "military force" for Texas.

They're apart of the US.

reply to post by sassylassy


Also, like I said, defense contractors will leave Texas. Texas is not going to have a formalized army that will be able to buy what contractors have to sell. The US government, though, will.

So, say bye-bye to them.