Are there secret chambers in the Great Pyramid - how likely?

I've been looking into the Pyramids for a few weeks now - just out of general interest - and they do indeed seen incredibly mysterious. I find the fact that no artefacts/hieroglyphs were found in the pyramid incredibly unusual.

I have a couple of questions that maybe some more experienced researchers can help me out with:

1) I have heard that a couple of copper 'cartouches' - symbols/seals representing a certain pharoe, were found in the Great Pyramid. Could these have been added at a much later date - or does this blow the theory of the pyramids being much older than suspected out of the water?

2) Many Egyptian ruins, like their European counterparts from much later ages, contain what can be described as 'graffiti' by the masons/slaves that made them. Has anything like this ever been found carved/painted in the Great Pyramid (obviously on the interior to discount later additions to the exterior).

The main motivation for writing this thread was to ask everyone their opinion on whether there could be a number of other secret chambers contained in the pyramid.

It occurred to me that with the structure being of solid stone, and a pyramid shape, it would be difficult to use any kind of acoustic/radar techniques to image the interior. Does a suitable technique exist to image the interior? Has it ever been attempted?

There is a shaft coming out of the queens chamber which terminates in a dead end - do you think this was an error/change in construction? Or perhaps an entrance to another chamber? Apparantly it was sealed with not one, but at least two layers of stone/copper 'doors' when the discovery channel tried to drill through with a robot.

Why would anyone go to the trouble of sealing a dead end with two 'doors' more than half way up the shaft?

And if there is another chamber? What do you think is in there? Why isn't anyone attempting to verify this further?

I just find it amazing that there could be secrets inside the pyramid - one of the worlds most scrutinised monuments - that have remained secrets for thousands of years, despite all of the expertise and technology we have available to us these days. I guess the Egyptians new a thing or two about building things to last...

The more I read about the Pyramids, the more convinced I am that there is something the world is missing about them and their purpose. What an amazing structure.

Many Egyptian ruins, like their European counterparts from much later ages, contain what can be described as 'graffiti' by the masons/slaves that made them. Has anything like this ever been found carved/painted in the Great Pyramid

In the Upper Chamber are builders marks on the limestone walls and graffiti from several centuries of visitors and explorers. There is also a census of cattle and crops with (I think) Khufu's cartouche on it.

Regarding undiscovered chambers, I guess it's possible, although unlikely. I remember a Japanese/ French geophys study whereby they used deep sensing equipment to locate any empty spaces. The results indicated that the pyramid isn't made of solid limestone blocks. Instead there are empty spaces that have been filled with sand. Shifting sand would be less labor-intensive than carving and transporting those huge blocks. It would alter any estimates about workforce and length of construction. source

The small shafts are intriguing still. It's generally accepted that they are exits for the Pharaoh's soul and that the doors are symbolic. The 'handles' weren't handles but magical symbols to allow safe passage. It's informed speculation as nobody is entirely sure. One thing is sure, the builders were disciplined and very practical. The shafts will, or did, have some meaning.

I don't know anthing about secret chambers in the pyramids,
but about half a year ago I read something in a german magazine about secret chambers under the Sphinx....
Maybe there is a connection. I will try to find it so I can post it
-Pakd

About 1984 (around the middle of the eighties, memory fading) a French/Egyptian team used ultrasound over the pyramid to research it, and from their work we have calculated how many stone blocks make up the Pyramid.

The ultrasond showed empty chambers full of sand, but this is believed to be part of the pyramid building technique.
The large cavities are known as "chamber method" and were designed to make the building go faster.....if they were secret chambers and not for building what purpose was there to sand fill and they stored nothing else?

I think i read somewhere about a large maze complex, or tunnels, under the pyramid.

Maybe a secret chamber leading underground to more rooms?
Or connected to the tunnels apparently underneath the Sphinx?

Jacob

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
The ultrasond showed empty chambers full of sand, but this is believed to be part of the pyramid building technique.
The large cavities are known as "chamber method" and were designed to make the building go faster.....if they were secret chambers and not for building what purpose was there to sand fill and they stored nothing else?

Maybe they were filled up with sand to hide other treasure-chambers?
Since it is said that they already had lightbulbs and things, perhaps one of these caught fire and they distinguished it by filling up the room with sand...
maybe not and I'm just thinking too complex....

[edit on 16/4/2009 by Pakd-on-mystery]

Originally posted by Dutty_Rag
I've been looking into the Pyramids for a few weeks now - just out of general interest - and they do indeed seen incredibly mysterious. I find the fact that no artefacts/hieroglyphs were found in the pyramid incredibly unusual.

I have a couple of questions that maybe some more experienced researchers can help me out with:

1) I have heard that a couple of copper 'cartouches' - symbols/seals representing a certain pharoe, were found in the Great Pyramid. Could these have been added at a much later date - or does this blow the theory of the pyramids being much older than suspected out of the water?

I read that the writing found (an apparent builders mark), was made up of different styles of Heiroglyphs, some from the time of Khufu, some of them from centuries later. I have never taken egyptian or even seen the markings, but I though it was an interesting 'tidbit'.

Also, look for the 'Inventory Stella', it's a stone slab that was found near the pyramid which actually says on it that the sphinx and pyramid where there before Khufu's father, thus making impossible for him to have built it. Many around here will tell you this is a hoax from centuries later, but I have yet to see proof, it seems the only proof is that it refutes Khufu built it.

The main motivation for writing this thread was to ask everyone their opinion on whether there could be a number of other secret chambers contained in the pyramid.

Personally, I think there could be, but again, many here will contest that there is no chance.

It occurred to me that with the structure being of solid stone, and a pyramid shape, it would be difficult to use any kind of acoustic/radar techniques to image the interior. Does a suitable technique exist to image the interior? Has it ever been attempted?

They did image the ground beneath the pyramid, but never the pyramid itself I think, from what I heard they found some interesting results, I think it was Robert Schoch, he was concequently thrown out on his ear by Hawass.

There is a shaft coming out of the queens chamber which terminates in a dead end - do you think this was an error/change in construction? Or perhaps an entrance to another chamber? Apparantly it was sealed with not one, but at least two layers of stone/copper 'doors' when the discovery channel tried to drill through with a robot.

I'd like to point out that we 'think' the doors are symbolic, it does not mean that was their original function, just the function we have given them, same for the 'shafts' that guide the pharoahs soul.

Why would anyone go to the trouble of sealing a dead end with two 'doors' more than half way up the shaft?

IMO, they wouldn't, but I'm not an Egyptian, with their beliefs in the afterlife and crossing over.

And if there is another chamber? What do you think is in there? Why isn't anyone attempting to verify this further?

A few have attempted, most of them get their license revoked if they apply for it, some even went ahead and tried to do it without informing the proper authorities, they were also kicked out.

Where as I don't agree with them doing it without permission, I am curious as to why they tried to do it without permission, knowing full well they would get kicked out if they did get discovered.

I guess the Egyptians new a thing or two about building things to last...

Yea they did! We would still have trouble building that now, also look up the stones at Baalbek, if you think the Egyptian pyramid used big stones, check those bad boys out.

The more I read about the Pyramids, the more convinced I am that there is something the world is missing about them and their purpose. What an amazing structure.

We are in agreement, on both there is more to them and that they are amazing structures.

EMM

Edit to add: Can someone clarify if one of the chambers has a constant temperature? I read this a while ago and have not been able to find anything on it, not even a good thorough debunking, which surprised me actually.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

It's kinda off subject, but has anyone heard of the radioactive sand they found inside the pyramids?

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
I read that the writing found (an apparent builders mark), was made up of different styles of Heiroglyphs, some from the time of Khufu, some of them from centuries later. I have never taken egyptian or even seen the markings, but I though it was an interesting 'tidbit'.

Originally, when the writing was found by Vyse, the hieroglyphic forms used were thought to be from a later time. Given that Vyse had to dynamite his way in, this threw some doubt on the theoretical date the G.P. was built at that time (1837.)

Subsequent discoveries have proven beyond all doubt that the hieroglyphic forms found by Vyse were indeed in use during the life of Khufu, so there's no problem with this now.

However, Zecharia Sitchin stirred up this old story when he bagan writing his serious of fraudulent "works" about ancient history. He did so in an attempt to refute the accepted date for the construction of the G.P. because it didn't fit his fantasy timeline. His claim was that Vyse forged these marks. An incredible claim given the fact that in Vyse's time, the particular forms found weren't recognized but when Sitchin brought it up they most certainly were. IOW, how could Vyse forge hieroglyphs that weren't known in his day but would be found elsewhere after his death?

Sitchin isn't an idiot, he just assumes that we are.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Also, look for the 'Inventory Stella', it's a stone slab that was found near the pyramid which actually says on it that the sphinx and pyramid where there before Khufu's father, thus making impossible for him to have built it. Many around here will tell you this is a hoax from centuries later, but I have yet to see proof, it seems the only proof is that it refutes Khufu built it.

No, it might seem that way to you. All that means is that you haven't looked into it for yourself and that, if anyone has tried to show you the evidence (and maybe no one has,) you decided to ignore it.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
[They did image the ground beneath the pyramid, but never the pyramid itself I think, from what I heard they found some interesting results, I think it was Robert Schoch, he was concequently thrown out on his ear by Hawass.

Schoch examined data collected by earlier surveys.

Schoch has never been "thrown out" by Hawass. To my knowledge, Schoch has never even applied to work in Egypt.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
A few have attempted, most of them get their license revoked if they apply for it,

A license cannot be "revoked" if it has not been granted.

The guy you're talking about, Gatenbrink, did not apply for any permit to go further than he already had. Please note that the discovery Gatenbrink did make was under the full authority of the Council of Antiquities, IOW, he had fiull permission to do what he did.

Also, these passages have since been explored further robotically by a Japanese team, so your claim about nobody being allowed is obviously just a lot of hot air.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers some even went ahead and tried to do it without informing the proper authorities, they were also kicked out.

Where as I don't agree with them doing it without permission, I am curious as to why they tried to do it without permission, knowing full well they would get kicked out if they did get discovered.

This did not happen either.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic MultiversEdit to add: Can someone clarify if one of the chambers has a constant temperature? I read this a while ago and have not been able to find anything on it, not even a good thorough debunking, which surprised me actually.

In the same way that caves maintain constant temperatures, a large stone edifice will do so.

The G.P. is no exception.

Harte

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery


I seen something on discovery channel a year or so ago about beneath the pyramids, said there could be a river of mercury or something running through a scale model egypt or something. I wish I remembered what it was all about. To the research lab....errr....google. Dunt Datta Daaaa

Originally posted by Harte
Subsequent discoveries have proven beyond all doubt that the hieroglyphic forms found by Vyse were indeed in use during the life of Khufu, so there's no problem with this now.

Fair enough.

Sitchin isn't an idiot, he just assumes that we are.

I liked Sitchin, now I believe he wasn't as 'on the money' as I thought back then, but thats what we do, we progress our perspective. He does raise some interesting questions, I know you don't think this but hey, I do.

No, it might seem that way to you. All that means is that you haven't looked into it for yourself and that, if anyone has tried to show you the evidence (and maybe no one has,) you decided to ignore it.

I have not been shown it, if you would care to link it, that would be great, if not, I will look for it myself when I get back, when I look a while ago, the main argument was that it was by a 'Isis sect' centuries later that forged it, but I have not seen any others.

Schoch examined data collected by earlier surveys.

Schoch has never been "thrown out" by Hawass. To my knowledge, Schoch has never even applied to work in Egypt.

I'm pretty sure he has as I was having a discussion about it with Hanslune a while back, again, I'll look it up when I'm back.

A license cannot be "revoked" if it has not been granted.

And if it has, it can. I'm not sure where you where going with this, it wasn't specific to one person or research group, just that I've heard of it happen.

The guy you're talking about, Gatenbrink, did not apply for any permit to go further than he already had. Please note that the discovery Gatenbrink did make was under the full authority of the Council of Antiquities, IOW, he had fiull permission to do what he did.

From my memory, it was a woman that attempted to go 'under the radar', not Gatenbrink.

Also, these passages have since been explored further robotically by a Japanese team, so your claim about nobody being allowed is obviously just a lot of hot air.

I didn't say nobody was allowed, I was mentioning that a few who have tried have not been allowed and I did know that it had been explored robotically, wasn't this when Hawass made the TV show that dragged out for ages, I'm pretty sure he was wearing a cape at the time.

You know my views on Hawass, no point bringing it up again in this thread.

This did not happen either.

I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I read about it, in fact, I'm sure you commented on the thread saying they deserved to be thrown out for not obtaining a licence.

In the same way that caves maintain constant temperatures, a large stone edifice will do so.

The G.P. is no exception.

Harte

Thank you for clearing that up, do you happen to know the temperature?

I'll find it if you don't.

EMM

The execution of the Inventory Stela is poor and the names used for the various deities mentioned in the text are clearly those employed during the Late Period. This has led many to argue that the Inventory Stela is a fake - a fraudulent attempt on the part of the Late Period Egyptians to re-discover a past which was, even then, of great antiquity.

Although the Inventory Stela may be a 'pious fake', the possibility should not be discounted that it is a copy of an earlier artefact. There are precedents for this - for example, a black granite stela of Shabaka (c 712 to 698 BC) states that the pharaoh found an original document 'being eaten by worms'. Shabaka ordered the writing 'to be made anew', and so the wooden or papyrus original was recarved in stone. [12] Furthermore, the Inventory Stela refers to the tail of the Sphinx's nemes head-dress being struck by a 'thunderbolt'. As both Hassan and Mark Lehner have confirmed, there is indeed damage at this location, consistent with a strong blow, together with the apparent remains of ancient repair work. [13]

This seems quite fair, slightly biased against, but hey, no one is perfect. This says it was a bad forgery, where as I have read, it was a very good one, if it was.


[edit on 16-4-2009 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

A license cannot be "revoked" if it has not been granted.

And if it has, it can. I'm not sure where you where going with this, it wasn't specific to one person or research group, just that I've heard of it happen.

The guy you're talking about, Gatenbrink, did not apply for any permit to go further than he already had. Please note that the discovery Gatenbrink did make was under the full authority of the Council of Antiquities, IOW, he had fiull permission to do what he did.

From my memory, it was a woman that attempted to go 'under the radar', not Gatenbrink.

Below you refer to a post I made on the subject. The woman you refer to above was in the same post.

She was denied a permit after she failed to follow the protocol clerarly laid out in a permit she had recieved immediately before that. That is, she went public with her findings before presenting thenm to the Council on Antiquities.

As an American (or citizen of any free state,) this rubs me the wrong way as well. Suffice it to say that the Egyptian government has a vested interest in their antiquities and any researcher that accepts a permit to investigate from the Council on Antiquities is bound by Egyptian law to follow what they have contracted to do. In the case of presenting findings to the C.O.A. first, it can be viewed as a way for the C.O.A. to protect their own newly discovered artifacts from would-be blackmarketeers. For example, Germany and their possession of thr bust of Nefertioti.

I don't know, but I can see how the C.O.A. would want to know first what was found in order to make arrangements to protect it before every Tom Dick and Harry decides to go try to steal it.

Anyway, my comments in this (quoted) portion of my previous post were about the small shaftss and the woman you mention had nothing to do with that. IIRC, her research was in fact about Nefertiti (coincidentally.)

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
I didn't say nobody was allowed, I was mentioning that a few who have tried have not been allowed and I did know that it had been explored robotically, wasn't this when Hawass made the TV show that dragged out for ages, I'm pretty sure he was wearing a cape at the time.

You know my views on Hawass, no point bringing it up again in this thread.

I admire what he's done for Egyptian antiquities. I'm willing to leave it at that as well, except to add that, yes, he's a bit of a media whore.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

This did not happen either.

I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I read about it, in fact, I'm sure you commented on the thread saying they deserved to be thrown out for not obtaining a licence.

Again, in that post I was not referring to these small shafts that were being discussed by yourself and the O.P.

It's true that some people were removed from the Giza Plateau. One was John Anthony West, though he lives in Egypt. Another was Graham Hancock. These two were actually digging around the area conducting investigations unbeknownst to the C.O.A. That is because there was no way they could get a permit. They dio not meet the criteria, which aren't really all that stringent.

Same thing would happen to you if you're caught metal detecting at, for example, Gettysburg here in the U.S. Except, the market for Civil War mini balls is far, far less lucrative than the market for Egyptian Antiquities.

In the same way that caves maintain constant temperatures, a large stone edifice will do so.

The G.P. is no exception.

Harte

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

This seems quite fair, slightly biased against, but hey, no one is perfect. This says it was a bad forgery, where as I have read, it was a very good one, if it was.

As you can see from the Colin Reader article you quoted from, what is in question is not the dating of the inventory stela, but rather whether or not it is a copy of an earlier record.

Harte

[edit on 4/16/2009 by Harte]

I believe there are many chambers and a huge bldg. under the Giza plateau. The underground city or whatever you want to call it, was abandoned and is probably flooded. There is much info. on it in Drunvalo Melchizedek's 2 books. "The Ancient Secret Of The flower Of Life". I'm posting the best sites and info. I've read on the subject. I'm not saying all of it is verifiable but it is fascinating and can give possible answers to a lot of questions. Drunvalo claims the ancient being Thoth appeared to him and taught him much of the Egyptian mystery school knowledge and the secrets of the Pyramids. Those 2 books are jam packed with info. He also has alot of youtube videos. Those that I've seen aren't as good as the books.



www.bethcoleman.net...
www.amazon.com...
www.larryhunter.com...
www.thehiddenrecords.com...

www.spiritofmaat.com...
www.philipcoppens.com...

Larry hunter talking about things from the sea all over the pyramid. Could it be evidence of the Great Flood?
www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 18-4-2009 by Sargoth]

[edit on 18-4-2009 by Sargoth]

[edit on 18-4-2009 by Sargoth]

My understanding in the GP that Khuful's Cartouche is is not spelled correctly. It is claimed that at one time writing was on the outside of it. I am inclined to think that they could understand pictures but not the writing as explaining the conflict over reading it. Some odd things to add.
Isaiah talks of an alter to the Lord in this very location add to that a GP shape. Being much larger is the shape of the new Jerusalem Rev. 21:11 that comes down from heaven. Regardless of the people who built it. It is inspired of the nature of God I would say.

As many have said over and over there is no way they could have built such with the tools seen and there is evidence of ultra sonic drill used by cores found.

Re te internal chambers:
I recently caught a documentary that I thought was very well considered, that put forward the theories of a Frenchman.
The belief was that approx 10 Feet (3metres) in from each side, there was a ramp that allowed the blocks to be hauled up a 7% inclne INSIDE the structure. This indicated a "square spiral" of galleries inside the pyramid rising to the top and was backed by computer models.
Where the gallery came to a corner, the pyramid was left open to allow a derrick type crane system to turn the block around ready for its journey up the next corridor.
The theory was also put forward that a long external ramp was put in place later during the construction to raise the large "cover" slabs that would give stability to the structure. These blocks were not drawn by man-power but by using weighted pulleys in the vaulted section of the Pyramid for which room there had previously been no reasons for its existence.
I found the evidence offered to be very convincing

graham hancock discusses that passage in the queens chamber in a few of his books, as does von daniken. both say it was discovered a while back when they were ventilating the chamber and a robot was sent up to look and took photos of a door w metal handle. they said they saw dust or something at base of door which indicated air inside/hidden chamber (seems like there would be SOMETHING behind a door, in my opnion anyway). the guy who had the robot thought it would be a major discovery and announcement to the public and they would open it and look inside. instead he was told to stop his investigation and no announcement was ever made to the press as to what had actually been found. i think when he tried to tell he was dismissed/ridiculed or something but you can check the details in those books if you want.
the thinking of archaeologists was apparantly that it was a tomb or whatnot, so that there was no reason for there to be any chamber there, so therefore there wasn.t, and no point in looking.

(alarm bells ringing for anyone ?)

Also japanese scientists apparantly did tests in the pyramid - radar maybe? - and found lots of chambers, but this wasnt investigated further either.

personally i htink they have investigated and recovered stuff, but its never been announced. as for being a tomb - no heiroglyphs, decorations, nothing ever found - objects couldnt have been looted as big ones wouldnt have fit out the door; no body ever found in any of the major pyramids; etc etc... in short. probably not a tomb.

Originally posted by rapunzel222
graham hancock discusses that passage in the queens chamber in a few of his books, as does von daniken. both say it was discovered a while back when they were ventilating the chamber and a robot was sent up to look and took photos of a door w metal handle. they said they saw dust or something at base of door which indicated air inside/hidden chamber (seems like there would be SOMETHING behind a door, in my opnion anyway). the guy who had the robot thought it would be a major discovery and announcement to the public and they would open it and look inside. instead he was told to stop his investigation and no announcement was ever made to the press as to what had actually been found. i think when he tried to tell he was dismissed/ridiculed or something but you can check the details in those books if you want.
the thinking of archaeologists was apparantly that it was a tomb or whatnot, so that there was no reason for there to be any chamber there, so therefore there wasn.t, and no point in looking.

(alarm bells ringing for anyone ?)

Also japanese scientists apparantly did tests in the pyramid - radar maybe? - and found lots of chambers, but this wasnt investigated further either.

personally i htink they have investigated and recovered stuff, but its never been announced. as for being a tomb - no heiroglyphs, decorations, nothing ever found - objects couldnt have been looted as big ones wouldnt have fit out the door; no body ever found in any of the major pyramids; etc etc... in short. probably not a tomb.

But what exactly could they be trying to hide by dropping investigations on these?

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Also, look for the 'Inventory Stella', it's a stone slab that was found near the pyramid which actually says on it that the sphinx and pyramid where there before Khufu's father, thus making impossible for him to have built it. Many around here will tell you this is a hoax from centuries later, but I have yet to see proof, it seems the only proof is that it refutes Khufu built it.

No, the proof is in the language. There is as much a difference in "Old Ancient Egyptian" (spoken/written in 3500 BC) and "Fairly Late Ancient Egyptian" (600 BC) as there is in pre-Chaucerian English and modern street slang. Anyone who reads English well can tell the difference immediately.

Same with Ancient Egyptian. The Inventory Stele really is a piece from 600 BC or so.

The main motivation for writing this thread was to ask everyone their opinion on whether there could be a number of other secret chambers contained in the pyramid.

Personally, I think there could be, but again, many here will contest that there is no chance.

I'd like to point out that we 'think' the doors are symbolic, it does not mean that was their original function, just the function we have given them, same for the 'shafts' that guide the pharoahs soul.

Agree with you 100%.

And if there is another chamber? What do you think is in there? Why isn't anyone attempting to verify this further?

A few have attempted, most of them get their license revoked if they apply for it, some even went ahead and tried to do it without informing the proper authorities, they were also kicked out.

Where as I don't agree with them doing it without permission, I am curious as to why they tried to do it without permission, knowing full well they would get kicked out if they did get discovered.

A number of crews, however, have gotten permission including a German crew.

Edit to add: Can someone clarify if one of the chambers has a constant temperature? I read this a while ago and have not been able to find anything on it, not even a good thorough debunking, which surprised me actually.

Most of them should have a fairly constant temperature and humidity. The stone is very thick and temperature changes (heat and cold) don't pass well through lots of rock. A good example is caves -- which generally maintain the same temperature year around.

aliens probably. i dont know.

check out the race of elongated heads - i think there have been some posts on them on this forum.

or maybe evd was right, and there are alien artifacts lying around - flying saucers or something. ??? who knows. im sure if there was, it would be 'above top secret' and we probly wouldnt be told.

but again. i dont know.

Originally posted by rapunzel222
aliens probably. i dont know.

check out the race of elongated heads - i think there have been some posts on them on this forum.

or maybe evd was right, and there are alien artifacts lying around - flying saucers or something. ??? who knows. im sure if there was, it would be 'above top secret' and we probly wouldnt be told.

but again. i dont know.

As far as I know that's a fluke. The "annunaki-skulls" were self made, and due to a whole row of very painful streching procedures. Skulls like this were found all around the world.