Should we protect sex offenders??

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posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by cindymars
This alleged criminal is innocent until proven guilty. What if ever you were falsely accussed? What if you were falsely accussed of molesting or raping a child and YOU were sentanced to prision? She may very well be guilty but she has not had her day in court.

If I knew for a fact a person had harmed a child I would have NO problem killing them myself if I were given the legal right to do so.

I do believe that she killed the child however my intuition and nothing else says that it was accidental and that she paniced and did the other to make it look as if a pedophile murdered the child. Hopever its just a feeling. She may well be the monster some of you think her to be?


Well, that is why we have experts in forensics and all kinds of other experts. To ensure that mistakes dont happen. Will mistakes happen? Yes (OJ case as example). But as time goes on and science and experts get better, the mistakes are less and less. The forensic experts and technology out there is a zillion better then it was a decade ago where the chance of being wrongly prosecuted and stuck on death row was higher.

You are right, she still needs to go thru trial and evidence needs to be brought forth. Im all about making sure that the one on trial is fairly tried and and all 'T's are crossed and all 'I's are dotted. And it pisses me off when LE and CSI screw things up.

Anyways. I for sure will be watching this case like all other similar cases.




posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 12:34 PM
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I'm with pieman and LDragonfire, yes, protection should be given to them. No matter how horrendous the crime. Firstly because i really am of the opinion that this whole 'kill the perverts' thing is not good for ourselves and is on the basis of the crap we are currently swimming in as a whole.

Yes, in the case of child molesters it is hard to do it because they target the smallest and most precious of our society and the knee-jerk reaction is to strangle them to death with their own intestine while jumping on their heads. And when i read in the paper that a parent kills some guy that molested his kid i can understand the emotion while not agreeing with the action. But still, if we ever want to be able to go beyond the societal mess we are in we have to be above those people and give them a chance to rehabilitate and just do the time without dying. Protection is not only for the ones doing the time is also for the society as a whole to show we are no monsters.

It really is terrible we are in a world where people like rapists, child molesters and God knows what else exist but exterminating them does not solve the problem, we should go and find the source of these abominations of the human psyche and deal with that instead of trying to clean up the symptoms.

So until then, protection for even the biggest scum of the earth and accept that we as a whole are responsible for the dismal state of our society.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by greeneyedleo

Originally posted by pieman
i am saying that it is acceptable to assess the danger a person poses to society and act in the interest of society, i am not judging the worth of their soul or life.


What you are saying is that it is acceptable to judge and punish a person up to a certain point - a line in the sand - one that you, another human, has chosen.


are you just determined to have the argument you want to have regardless of what i am saying? let me be clearer still.

incarceration as a punishment is a waste of time and money, the only reason for incarceration is to protect society. it is not the place of you or i or any other human to judge another, we just ain't qualified or capable. this is clearly shown by the fact that sooo many people are convicted and sentenced incorrectly and unsafely.

it doesn't work, it doesn't help and it surely doesn't do society any favours. it only serves to satisfy the twisted blood lust of those that seek to externalise and legitimise their own shameful drives.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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I am still sticking to my guns on this one.
It is hippocritical to say that they will be judged by their peers and then not let their jail peers judge them as well...after all they will be judged by their peers right.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by DrumsRfun
 


it's equally true to say that we don't trust a convicted criminal to sit on a jury, either you trust them to judge everyone or you don't trust them to judge anyone, one or the other.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by pieman
 


I would trust an animals judgement alot more then regular citizens when it pertains to this subject.
A jury of people can't punish as good as a bunch of animals disgusted with a fellow animal could.
It would seem to be more fair...you are right a jury is filled with regular people so not exactly his peers so much as they are your peers.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 01:08 PM
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I can whole heartedly say that almost everyone in this thread have no idea what the hell they are talking about and that you people need to open your eyes to new ideas instead of condemning each other and flaming about the most stupid sh** i have ever heard of... get a life



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 01:22 PM
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All this protective custody is unfortunately at our expense so I do think we have a right to complain. Why is it Dahmer was in the general population?

Imo all prisoners should work. They should get up and go to work from morning till night with 1 day off, so many of us live like that and we're considered "free."

Working with livestock, farming or factory work would keep them busy, it could serve as rehab and probably for the first time in their lives they would be taking some responsibility. They would be working to support their worthless selves with their own time and sweat instead of mine. I can't see this as being cruel and unusual.

As far as protective custody BS. Seems sex offenders are oozing out of the woodwork these days I say lump them all together and make one giant maximum security prison with nothing but sex offenders. No bias they're all the same.

I'm sorry but most people are not satisfied with the punishments currently on the books for sex offenders. Come up with a better solution and maybe people will not feel so frustrated. It seems the numbers are growing people are fed up and want action.

I've got to agree with greeneyedleo



There I said it: I am better than them.


Instead our systems treats them better than me. I get no free medical, I don't have free time for the extras they enjoy, I get no free schooling, I don't have a membership to a gym, I don't have a cook preparing my meals and I never had 24 hour protection and I grew up in Gary, Indiana where I sure coulda used it! No lets keep sex offenders safe they might snap out of it someday and make a worthwhile contribution, yeah right.

No our current method of dealing with criminals has gotten completely ridiculous and out of control. It's the corporate prison system. They justify huge contracts with food service, contractors of all kinds in the guise of being PC. It's always about money.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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This is how the "eye for an eye" system works.

A family member of mine is charged with and convicted of a capital offense and put to death for it. But I know this person and know there is NO WAY they could have done it.

So, my innocent relative has been murdered. Who is responsible? The judge, the jury, the prosecutor, the executioner. So now I am justified in killing all those people.

Of course their families will believe they are justified in killing me and my family will then be justified in killing them... ad infinitum....

...and everyone is dead.

Have fun



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by Vasilis Azoth
 


This thread isn't about capitol punishment or eye for an eye system.
Its about how the law says you will be judged by your peers and then protects sex offenders from their peers in jail.
I find this to be a load of BS and see it as hippocritical.
Why protect them from their peers...after all it says they will be judged by their peers?
Theres alot of different viewpoints and I appreciate everyones input regardless.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 02:05 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


reply to post by DrumsRfun
 


I think you might be missing the point. Being judged by your peers doesn't mean plumbers will judge plumbers and pickpockets will judge pickpockets. The principle of being judged by a jury of your peers means we don't have a system where some high and mighty caste bestows judgment on the lowly downtrodden. It's designed to be an egalitarian system to avoid class distinctions.

You're taking the "judged by peers" out of context and making it something it isn't.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


Your right,I have focused soley on those exact words.
My definition of peers is anyone and everyone...we are all peers.
I am word picking for sure because I really can't understand protecting sex offenders.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by DrumsRfun
 


but , the accused has human rights too ??

why do people on ATS advocate sharia law?


'innocent until proven guilty ' , the person has a right to lawyers too



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 

excellent statement . why are abortion doctors not executed ? after all its murder , though legalised and made in USA .

simple ,its law, and 'person is innocent till proven guilty'


[edit on 15-4-2009 by Kombatt98]



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by DrumsRfun
 


Well I have will have to say that no, they don't deserve to be protected by anybody, and should have to deal with the consequences of their actions in the general jail population.

I'm sure some people will say that a life is a life, regardless of what that person has done, however if you ask anybody whose ever been molested by a sex offender or even been in the presence of these people then you realize that you can't really help them.

It's a sickness, something that yes, perhaps we can educated and rehabilitate them, but do you really want to take that chance? We are talking about the innocence and beauty of children here, not adults.

These incidents scar children for life, while most do eventually learn to deal with their pasts it still leaves an open wound and a breach of trust that can't ever be repaired.

They make that bed, they make the concious choice to violate that child's right to a safe and happy childhood. Now they have to lay in it, even if it lined with nails.

~Keeper



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by Kombatt98
 


I don't know why you think I am advocating sharia law.
The thread was about the word peers and being judged by them and how inmates don't get to judge their fellow peer so to speak.
This isn't about death or capitol punishment...its about SEX OFFENDERS.
As far as human rights goes,if he really cared about human rights then maybe he would not have interfered in others human rights as well...and yes I think he should not have many human rights after waving anothers human rights away and raping them.
Lets not get heated...its just a thread and a post which we will forget in a month anyways.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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Bah, until prison becomes an effective rehabilitory system EVERYONE deserves to be protected from it. There is a purpose for punishment, and that purspose is NOT "to inflict pain upon those who harmed others" it is to help them learn a better way to be. Our prison system, on the other hand, chews people up and spits them back out much worse for society than they went in.

Point number two is that I am a psyche worker, and i deal with children. I often see children who have sexually abused other children, some perpetrators as young as 7. I HAVE seen the massive amount of how much this is a cycle, how most of those perpetrators had been raped in their youth, and they reenact that out upon other victims...this is a common human pattern, and often the perps are victims as much as anything else. Perhaps this is easier for me to see than others because the "perps" i deal with are 7, 8, and 9 year olds that also cry for their mothers and are scared of monsters under the bed at night, while they clutch their teddy bears. The humanity is there, its just lost in the confusion and pain of events they went through themselves.

Point number 3 is that in our justice system, 18 year olds having sex with their 16 year old lovers are categorized the same way that violent serial rapists are, as are, apparently, 14yo girls who take pictures of themselves naked on their phone and text it to their boyfriends....so until this also is cleared up, YES our sex offenders deserve protection.

There is a name for punishment for the sake of punishment, and without hope of redemption. That name is sadism. As any thinking human knows, vengeance harms the soul of the avenger much as the original crime harmed the soul of both the perpetrator and the victim.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 02:41 PM
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No, we should line them up in a row as the Romans' did, and shoot them, one by one, in between their eyes.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by pexx421
 


A very good post.
I think this is the most sober of posts so far.
You deserve a star for sure.

I have no comeback to that.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by pexx421
 


Thank you for that, i agree. Prison as it is doesn't work. In The Netherlands we at least have Involuntary commitment when people are convicted of these crimes. Link. It normally is after prison time served and until the clinic thinks they have it under control or are cured. It is not perfect but at least it is something.





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