IIG's investigation of the Billy Meier HOAX, page 9
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reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 01:13 PM by Indigo_Child
reply to post by Frankinmouse


I think Mister-old-school is just being unreasonable now.

He claims this is a hoax, but wants the luxury of not proving this is a hoax.

He says that just a layman analysis done on the photographs is enough to prove it, but wants the luxury of not having his analysis tested.

Then when presented with a proper high-level vigorous scientfic analysis by a peer-group of top scientists and experts at the time, using state of the art equipment, replete with the full scientific report, assorted data and statistics and exhausive descriptions - he just dismisses it without reading.

So clearly he is being disingenious. He's already made up his mind he is a hoax. So I think we should respect his wishes on what he wants to believe and move on to others who are prepared to be reasonable.


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 01:50 PM by NightVision
reply to post by Indigo_Child


I've tried getting thru to Mr. Old School before, not necessarily for the purposes of the Meier case, but simply to teach him how to be a better skeptic. He claimed that the Meier UFO's were spray painted silver. I find this assumption very off the mark. Even if the they are models, it doesn't take very long to determine that they are not spray painted.

At any rate, I would urge all involved here to be reasonably kind. These Meier threads have a nasty history on ALL sides, even the Mods have tore some people up. Not cool.



reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 02:52 PM by Indigo_Child
RE: Marcel Vogel. I have not misrepresented his claim. In four different sources (three books and one movie) it is stated that he used a scanning electron microscope to identify thulium in the Billy Meier metal sample. Just because a later film says something differently is not relevant. The original sources all said the same thing. Consider this, perhaps the later film falsely claimed that he used spectrometry because they later realized it was scientifically impossible to determine the composition of an object using magnification.


I have covered this earlier on several occasions. He never claimed to use electron-scanning microscrope to determine the chemical composition of the metal. It is impossible to do that, because if one looks under the microscope, they cannot see elements and end up with a spectrogram. This is a lie spread by IIG and by James Randi who have ended up slandering Mr Vogel calling him "silly" or not a trained scientist etc just because Vogel stated his findings on Meiers metal sample.

Watch the video of the original investigation a few decades ago I linked in the new documentary earlier where Marcel discusses his evidence. He presents his findings by two means:

1. He shows a spectrogram/spectrograpth which shows the different substances present inside the metal sample and then points to the peaks in the graph to indicate which metals are present.

2) He shows a photograph taken of the metal under an electron scanning microscrope showing the micro-machining that has taken place, indicating the discreet 7 diagonal streaks and hoirzontal streaks.

The analysis done on the sample metal was as again very extensive and not just done by Vogel, but a whole team of experts.Unfortunately, while Michael Horn was able to provide the report for the previous(From Lee Elders book) on the photographic ananysis. This one you have to pay for to view($9) and is available on steelmark.com

This document is very technical and describes the methods used for analyzing and evaluating the metal samples given to Billy Meier by the Pleiadians. It includes:

Elemental analysis using x-ray diffraction
Scanning Electron Microscope examination of the specimen
Spectrographic examination

(I personally think it is silly that FIGU charges for people to see the reports. You would think they would make all their reports freely available so everyone can read them)

Here is some original footage along with an interview with Marcel Vogel:





Watch segment 2:05

[edit on 17-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

[edit on 17-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 03:56 PM by Soloist
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Again recall the original investigators searched costume and clothes suppliers, stores and for fabrics which would appear and behave as the same, and they found nothing.



They must have not searched too hard, all they would need to do is go to a store selling Christmas items and pick up some gold foil wrapping paper. Easy as that. No need for space blankets or gold leaf or anything else exotic.

Oh, and while they're at it they can pick up some ball ornaments to glue to the "wedding cake" model also.

They could also pick up some cardboard boxes, or perhaps use the ones the ornaments came in to make the raygun , glue it to a empty paper towel roll, cover the thing in the dull side of some aluminum foil, attach some random brightly colored plastic to it, and there you go.

Of course I also love how he has no video of him shooting it! One would think that might make for pretty good proof considering it would be very tough to fake that, especially in the 70's -80's.

Think about it, if you were going to hoax a "raygun" (forget this is a science fiction concept for now) you would not just go buy a toy gun and take pictures of that, as it would be too easily identified.



LOL@Billy Meier !

It's hoaxers and fakes like this that make people who are actually *serious* about Ufology look like loons in the eyes of the rest of the world, and a darn good reason why it will never get taken seriously. Fools like Meier (the prophet, LOL) need to just go away and never return.


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 04:33 PM by Frankinmouse
Originally posted by Soloist
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Again recall the original investigators searched costume and clothes suppliers, stores and for fabrics which would appear and behave as the same, and they found nothing.



They must have not searched too hard, all they would need to do is go to a store selling Christmas items and pick up some gold foil wrapping paper. Easy as that. No need for space blankets or gold leaf or anything else exotic.

Oh, and while they're at it they can pick up some ball ornaments to glue to the "wedding cake" model also.

They could also pick up some cardboard boxes, or perhaps use the ones the ornaments came in to make the raygun , glue it to a empty paper towel roll, cover the thing in the dull side of some aluminum foil, attach some random brightly colored plastic to it, and there you go.

Of course I also love how he has no video of him shooting it! One would think that might make for pretty good proof considering it would be very tough to fake that, especially in the 70's -80's.

Think about it, if you were going to hoax a "raygun" (forget this is a science fiction concept for now) you would not just go buy a toy gun and take pictures of that, as it would be too easily identified.



LOL@Billy Meier !

It's hoaxers and fakes like this that make people who are actually *serious* about Ufology look like loons in the eyes of the rest of the world, and a darn good reason why it will never get taken seriously. Fools like Meier (the prophet, LOL) need to just go away and never return.




I see, and your particular field of expertise in research is recreating Billy's photos with household objects is it? Please point us to your christmas wrapper space suit and your jingle bells space ship.

IIG also suggested that Billy used christmas tree ornaments to make his UFO, they have yet to reproduce it with these objects as far as I know and they have had years to do it.

Why do people simply discount the onsite investigation that went on for nearly six years and found no evidence of either a hoax or how it could be performed?
Are your powers of observation from your computer vastly superior to all the people originally involved who had access to the original material and were actually there?





reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 06:04 PM by NightVision
reply to post by jritzmann


I thought you were finished with the Meier case, Jeff? Do u want to have a civilized debate over why these models aren't spray painted? i would be happy to, if you can keep things cool and not take things so personally. That being said, I don't think either of us can definitively proof either way weather these objects are chrome or not chrome without a physical sample. Chromium the mineral is very dull textured in it's appearance until it is refined. There are many types of Chrome finishes.


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 06:40 PM by neo2012
reply to post by Indigo_Child


The problem with the billy meier story is nothing is conclusive.
So maybe aliens make guns that look like cheap plastic kids toys and wear tin foil hats but where is the real evidence.

Where is the video of the ray gun shooting a hole through a tree?
After all the videos of beamships you would of thought he would video the ray gun or did they not allow it?

What about a picture of meier standing next to one of these craft so we could get a real perspective of the size of these things? Let me guess they wouldnt allow it.

After years of contact countless videos and pictures not one of them can be called upon as proof.

If you ask a fighter pilot "shows us what this plane is capable of" do you think he would fly in a straight line turn around and land again?
Surely the craft are capable of doing something more interesting than bobbing around a tree.

If i took a stealth fighter back 100 years do you think they could associate it with anything they had?
Yet the ray gun looks like a kids toy, the suit looks like foil, the "wedding cake ufo" looks like a trash can with some balls stuck on the side with a lick of spray paint.

They have evolved to look exactly like us and yet have travelled from another solar system to reach us.

Sometimes you have to look at what hasnt been presented to really understand the story.

Last point, i am a believer in the UFO subject but this story is too hard to swallow.



reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 06:43 PM by Indigo_Child
Originally posted by Soloist
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Again recall the original investigators searched costume and clothes suppliers, stores and for fabrics which would appear and behave as the same, and they found nothing.



They must have not searched too hard, all they would need to do is go to a store selling Christmas items and pick up some gold foil wrapping paper. Easy as that. No need for space blankets or gold leaf or anything else exotic.

Oh, and while they're at it they can pick up some ball ornaments to glue to the "wedding cake" model also.


I think you really do underestimate the lengths to which these investigators went. Basically, whatever you and I have thought, they thought as well. The difference was they investigated those possibilities, rather than just asserting them.

Consumer Gold wrapping paper does not have the consistency of the gold-metallic suit Alena is wearing. I demonstrated earlier by linking to objects with gold foil that it does not look the same. It would be similar for gold wrapping paper, unless you can show me that you can create a suit of wrapping paper that would look the same.

hey could also pick up some cardboard boxes, or perhaps use the ones the ornaments came in to make the raygun , glue it to a empty paper towel roll, cover the thing in the dull side of some aluminum foil, attach some random brightly colored plastic to it, and there you go.


Go ahead and do it then and see if you can create the ray-gun. Although I personally think it's not outside of the remit of possibility to create that ray-gun, but perhaps doing it will make you appreciate how difficult it would be build it at home.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 06:51 PM by Frankinmouse
reply to post by Soloist


Yes Meiers ex wife made some statements in an staged interview conducted by this man....

video.google.com...

Meiers wife is not a reliable witness as anyone familiar with the case knows because she previously recounted her own experiences and sightings and passed lie detector tests.

Kal Korff is a confirmed lunatic who thinks he is a high ranking military agent endowed with nanotechnology that he invented and is responsible for fabricating much of the false evidence that damaged Meiers case in the first place.

Not exactly reliable sources of information.

We are trying to have a rational discussion, here which is impossible it seems when you have people screaming hoax based on information like that. Read through some of the previous posts first instead of posting without thinking as I couldn't be bothered commenting on the rest ofwhat you said.


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 07:02 PM by Indigo_Child
The problem with the billy meier story is nothing is conclusive.
So maybe aliens make guns that look like cheap plastic kids toys and wear tin foil hats but where is the real evidence.


Well they are not wearing tin-foil hats. They are wearing a gold suit which happens to be the best protection for heat and radation in a spacecraft.

As for this evidence not being conclusive. This evidence is the closest to conclusive we have and I will demonstrate this soon.

Where is the video of the ray gun shooting a hole through a tree?
After all the videos of beamships you would of thought he would video the ray gun or did they not allow it?


How do you know the ray is visible? Have you heard of infrared lasers? The laser is within the infrared range so you do not see the laser. However, I suspect you're right, the Plejaren probably did not allow Meier to show it while active.

What about a picture of meier standing next to one of these craft so we could get a real perspective of the size of these things? Let me guess they wouldnt allow it.


We already have enough evidence for perspective and size. In some Video Meier is actually standing under the the ship high above in the altitude.

[quite]If you ask a fighter pilot "shows us what this plane is capable of" do you think he would fly in a straight line turn around and land again?
Surely the craft are capable of doing something more interesting than bobbing around a tree.

There are several videos where the craft actually isn't around a tree but high above in the sky either descending, ascending, or flying over.
Interesting you mention a fighter, there is a picture where a fighter actually attempts to intercept the beamship and Meier captures it.

There is only one video where the beamship encircles the tree and this is a deliberate motion. The experts have analysed this and they confirmed that this is not tethered above on a string.

If i took a stealth fighter back 100 years do you think they could associate it with anything they had?
Yet the ray gun looks like a kids toy, the suit looks like foil, the "wedding cake ufo" looks like a trash can with some balls stuck on the side with a lick of spray paint.

They have evolved to look exactly like us and yet have travelled from another solar system to reach us.


All of these are arguments from incredulity really. Have you considered the possibility that human looking ET's maybe common in the universe? Moreover, have you considered that they maybe our ancestors?

The ray-gun may look like a toy, but it doesn't mean it is a toy. Again look at my previous analysis of its shape and its unique design features.

The Wedding cake beamship has already been established is not a trashcan. This is shown in the picture where it is hovering in front of a van at close distance and the one where it is hovering in front of the tree and Meier is filming it from an extreme distance. As well as the night time shots of the ship flying over the car and tree.

Do not regurgitate the lies told by IIG. They never were able to prove their trash can hypothesis. Their argument for the trash can is purely based on one thing: "something sticks out of the UFO" and look "something sticks out of a trash can" therefore they are the same.

Last point, i am a believer in the UFO subject but this story is too hard to swallow.


And that is the irony. The Billy Meier case is the smoking gun of the UFO subject. You know when skeptics always demand hard physical scientific evidence? And for every other UFO case you don't have any? Well you have it with Meier. Do not fall for IIG's and Randi and co's lies.
They have not proven anything. All they have done is spread and repeated a lie so much that people have accepted it as a truth. This is why I started this thread: to expose them.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 07:32 PM by Indigo_Child
The Smoking Gun

After reviewing this thread and the objections made and examining all the evidence, I think I have enough data to formulate a conclusion and put everything together and form a coherent whole. I was going to start a separate thread to present my conclusion, but I think we already have enough Meier threads running concurrently.

Conclusion: Eduard Billy Meier,also known as the one armed farmer WAS and possibly still is in contact with an ET race known as the Plejarens(Pleidians). The photographs he took of UFO’s were in fact genuine beamships of the Plejarens, which are literally riding on the Earth’s magnetic field.

The Billy Meier case is the smoking-gun of ET/UFO study. The hard evidence which has often been demanded by sceptics for this phenomenon is present in abundance and is consistent with other evidence as we will find in this summary. In this summary I will make available all the evidence in one post and present it in a coherent and consistent manner. The majority of this evidence is from the original investigation team in the 70’s headed by Lee elders and Wendel Stevens.

In this post will be referring to the reports available at steelmark(unless specified otherwise) and the original documentary made on Billy Meier in the 70’s.

I am posting the parts that I will be referring to here:

Part 2:



Part 3:



Part 4:



Part 5:


Part 6:


Part 7:


Part 8:


Metal Sample Evidence

The Plejaren beam ships are made out of a highly advanced metal. A sample of this metal sample was presented to Billy Meier who then presented it to Lee Elders and Wendel Stevens investigation team. They then in turn consulted a team of scientists to investigate the metal.

The following tests were done on the metal:

* Elemental analysis using x-ray diffraction
* Scanning Electron Microscope examination of the specimen
* Spectrographic examination

Results:

The metal was found to be an alloy of silver, iron, copper, silicon and the rare metal Thulium. It showed evidence of micro engineering showing 7 diagonal striations under an electron scanning microscope(The Plejaren claim the 7 striations represent 7 stages of manufacturing the material undergoes before it is used in construction of their spacecraft) Dr Marcel Vogel, IBM’s top scientist also observed that the metal sample had unknown dual properties of being metal and crystal at the same time.

The study can be accessed here at Steelmark for $9:

www.steelmarkonline.com...

The documentary footage of the metal analysis and interpretation:

Watch segment 2:06 of part 4

Also watch the following clip of an interview with Vogel and original lab footage:




Photos and Videos

As well all know that Billy Meier has taken hundreds of photographs and videos with the Plejaren beamships. We also know that these are irreproducible using small models as has been demonstrated in the OP and throughout this thread. The original investigation team submitted the original negatives and film to a panel of the best experts in the world at the time.

The following tests were done on the photographs and video films:

* Microscopic examination of film, transparency or print to very high magnifications, up to 500 diameters.
* Microdensiometric scanning of film or transparencies, using various scanning programs.
* Scanning Electron Microscope examination of the film and film make-up.
* Laserscopic examination of film or transparencies, and preparation of laser holographic plates for computer work.

Excerpts from the scientific reports published in Lee Elders book “Contact from the Pleides” in the early 80’s:

Discussions were held with leaders in the field of research, including: optical science engineers, aeronautical engineers, computer programmers, laser specialists and photographic technicians and latest state-of-the-art equipment was reviewed and evaluated.

SNIP

Basically we started by examining the sample transparency or negative with a laserscope, the same way used to examine black and white negatives with microscopes to determine fakes before computer came along, and we made preliminary judgements about factors. Laser technology makes it possible for a skilled examiner to determine much before he ever goes to the computer. He can set up a grid, 10,000 lines per centimeter veritical and horizontal, and go back and forth scanning the whole picture. With the laserscope we can blow up even further to look at individual grains or color laminations in the film emulsion and make judgements particle by particle. Laser holography is then used to provide a 3-dimensional image from a 2-dimensional picture. And laser projection of the hologram is so fine that a 10th of a centimeter square can be blown up to many feet to view the grains and laminations in graphic 3-D. The finest suspension threads and expert retouching overlaps should stand out graphically. Homogenity of the grains and color layers can be studied carefully for deviations from norm.

SNIP

We still find no evidence of trickery in any of these photographs so enhanced. On the other hand, we find details revealed that tend more to establish the validity of the story told by the witness

Still another method referred to us by Ron Spanbauer of De Pere, Winsonsin was tried in judging the depth of field or distance of objects in the picture from the lens of the camera at the time photographs were made(SNIP) The Meier photographs from Switzerland analysed by this method were found to be consistent with the reported data, and with the photogrammetric and computer data generated


Results

The results showed that the beamships shown in Meiers photographs and videos were genuine. They were not small models but very large objects(up to 20 m) There were no strings or wire supports. They were distant from the camera and suspended very high above ground.

The results also showed that the UFO had an artificial field around it(I stated this myself earlier on) Also that the UFO’s movements in the video of suddenly jumping from one spot to another or disappearing and reappearing suddenly all happened in real time in a fraction of a second. There was no cutting.

The investigators also tried to duplicate Meiers photographs using a small model that was a miniature of one the Plejaren beamships, using a pole and a string. These photographs, most of which looked bad and Wendel in particular was not impress with them, were submitted for testing and the experts had no problem in ascertaining they were small models.

The entire study can be accessed here for free:

Scientific Analysis of Meiers Photographs and Videos

The documentary footage of the actual tests taking place and experts analysing and interpreting them:

Watch segment 4:00, 7:45 of part 3, 0:00, 6:30 of part 4, 6:44 of part 5, 0:00, 6:48 of part 6, 0:00 of part 8

The sound recording evidence

The Plejaren ship’s propulsion self is using a field-generation technology which is able to generate a resonance that matches the earth magnetic field resonance(aka as Schuman resonance). This allows the Pleajaren ship to ride the Earth’s magnetic field. Not only does this allow the craft to float on the earth magnetic field, but at higher resonance it can disappear out of our dimension and enter hyperspace(I.e., jump out of phase) In Semjase’s Wedding Cake beamship this artificial field is generated from the bottom of the aircraft from the patterned light balls in the centre(Hence why most UFO’s have a glow underneath) Billy Meier was allowed to record the sound of the UFO using his cassette recorder and microphone to hear the field. The recording was then submitted to the investigation team which then sent it to be analysed by sound experts using state of the art technology.

The following tests were done on the sound sample:

1. Computer analysis of the sounds
2. Analysis at a state of the art sound engineering studio

Results

The analysis shows that the clip contained many sounds: the sound of a dog barking, the sound of a European police siren but they could not match the basic sound of the ship. The scientist speculated it was a very specific sound for specialised applications.

The analysis found 10 frequencies converge and suddenly become one frequency very quickly which was not possible even if one had 10 synthesisers going off at once. The experts opined that such a sound cannot be duplicated with their equipment.

The most interesting result was that the sound frequencies actually generated a magnetic field of increasing intensity which was within the range of Earth’s magnetic field - Schuman resonance. The expert drew the field by graphing out the sound. It turns out the graphic representation was the same as the pattern of the bottom light on the underside of the Wedding cake beamship and the expert had not even seen the photo.

The scientific report on the analysis of the sound recording can be found at Steelmark.

The documentary footage of the analysis of the sound recording and its interpretation:

Watch segment 1:05 of part 4, 4:40 of part 7

Summary continued in next post.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 08:34 PM by Indigo_Child
Smokig Gun: Continued


Testimonial evidence

Hundreds of people in Meiers town have seen the Plejaren beamships in different locations. There is an also ex UN diplomat who was at the same Ashram(Ashoka Ashram) in India Meier was at during his younger years and had seen the beamships. Of course then there is Billy Meier and his children’s testimony. The investigators interviewed some of these witnesses and did a lie detector test on Billy Meier which was analysed by a top lie detector expert. In the recent documentary produced by Michael Horn a NLP expert and consultant to the US government and military was consulted to examine videos of these witness giving testimony.

Results:

The interviews conducted by the original investors interviewed people who seemed sincere including a schoolteacher who just said, “I’ve seen one now” and laughed it off like it is a mudane thing(One would imagine for a town that has had UFO's appearing over it for decades would be desensitized to them)

The lie detector test showed that Meier was definitely telling the truth that he really did photograph beamships and he did not use any strings and small models etc and the only thing he lied about was whether he was still drinking coffee or not!(He has promised his wife he would quit, but he was sneaking in a few cuppa) The NLP expert agreed that Billy Meier is telling the truth. He also confirmed his UN diplomat friend was telling the truth.

Note: The above merely establishes that the witnesses believe they are telling the truth

Documentary footage of witness testimony and tests:

Watch segment of 3:35 of part 2, 0:00 of part 7

For the NLP expert analysing the UN diplomat watch Horn’s documentary and segment 25:00 and42:29.

Miscellenious evidence

* The tree that Meier had shot at using the Plejaren old model ray-gun was found parched around the entry-hole and entry hole was oval and and went right through the other side. It was smoothe as glass inside. The Investigators tied a string around the truck of the entry-hole and went back as far into the forect they could from the point Meier said he used the weapon and found that everything within a straight line from there was parched just like the tree and twigs were broken in between as if a laser had passed through them.

* The disclosure project verifies that Billy Meier is telling the truth

George Green, ex CIA official confirms that Billy Meier is telling the truth and also claims contacts of its own(which are not supported by Billy Meier who claims he's the only one in contact)

EVALUATION

Normally you end with a conclusion but I began with my conclusion. The entire sum of the evidence validates that Billy Meier is telling the truth. The evidence supports exactly what Meier claims. These beamships are real, up to 20feet in size, they are flying hundreds of feet above the ground, they are using field-propulsion and they make their jumps by increasing their field resonance above the earth resonance which causes them to jump out of phase into hyperspace.

Everything is internally consistent and forms a coherent whole:

1. The sound analysis validates that the beamships are indeed are using the earths magnetic field(as Meier tells)
2. The photographic and videographic analysis validates that the beamships indeed do have a artificial field surrounding them(explaining the slight blur and light anomolies) and they are very large craft and at a significant distance from the camera.
3. The metal sample analysis validates that it indeed is a space-age metal using chemical and metallurgical technology beyond our means
4. The NLP expert examinations and lie-detector tests do indeed validate that the witnesses are sincere and do believe they are telling the truth
5. The oval-hole in the tree and the parched things in the line of the fire and the unique and unknown type corrboroate that this is a ray-weapon. The gold metallic space suit having the same properties that protect against heat and radiation in a spacecraft validate that it indeed is a spacesuit.

So where does this leave some of the other "evidence"? The Asket and Nera pictures, the Dino pictures and other pics? Most of these fall into the most likely fake or unfalsifiable category. They can be explained as an unfortunate side-effect of the Meier case running out of control, leading to either members in his organization or himself feeling the need to create pictures to support his real-life trips. It is also possible that these are set-ups by powers that are trying to demolish his case.

However, what really matters is the sum of the hard evidence presented in this summary and that is clearly shouting out very loud:

Billy Meier really was and possibly still is in contact with Plejarens

Thus we have the closest to proof positive on the existence of ET and its vistations to Earth. Now that we have established that the Plejarens are real, we should take all of Meiers contact notes very seriously and learn more about our history, proper science, our future and spirituality.

I rest my case.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]
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