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IIG's investigation of the Billy Meier HOAX

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posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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neo2012, your comment on the case is based on photos and films is horrendiously wrong. Billy Meier said this SEVERAL times that the main goal for his mission is to introduce the true spiritual teachings and that the photos is more like a "bonus feature".

We dont always bring it up, the skeptics brings it up and then were expected to defend it. If you would like to stop concentrating on these pieces of evidence then stop bringing them up and say "hoax, lies, easily duplicated hoax, etc..."

Regarding your l.ast paragraph neo2012, about landing a ufo or photographing the actual human beings is because in one of the contacts, they mentioned that some people in teh world was capable to send negative impulses to these ETs.... And like the ETs often stated, they are not here to entertain us, merely to give us a helping hand to begin accepting responsibility for damaging our only home, make peace among ourselves on earth and the spiritual teachings.




posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by EffEcTiVe_UniT
 



Regarding Wendelle admitting that billy used models. I demand you to show me proof of this exerp. If you dont then i demand you to retract your comments.


Demand ?...lmao
why don't you do some homework so i don't have to lead you around like a child ? i said he had models in his home...don't twist it to ridicule me


here is your Link Mr. Demanding...click on the 2006 conference.





easynow please to save trouble for other colleagues, provide a link or proof of your accusations such as these tests and enhancements. Or how can anyione take you seriously if you never provide your source.


i posted the links...look again

if your referring to pictures try Google...it's your friend not me








Regarding Kal Korff. Any referances from him is considered a joke even from skeptics nowadays. Kal Korff is delusional and lying.


how about you prove he is lying ?

oh wait you can't can you ?


















the testimony from Meiers Children cannot be accepted since there is a possibility that they are being influenced by monetary gain. Period













[edit on 18-4-2009 by easynow]

[edit on 18-4-2009 by easynow]



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by easynow

yep your right just saying something doesn't make it true

so that means Meier's claims cannot be taken as truth. period


But Meier didn't just "say something", he provided videos and photos and metal samples and sound samples and physical trace evidence, as did other eyewitnesses and scientists. So your point makes no sense. Period
And I'm not arguing that Meiers case should be taken wholesale as truth, neither is the OP as far as I can see. Their point is more subtle than that. My point is that much of the Meier evidence has not be successfully disproven, which is why an open mind is, IMO, the more correct response.


it's been more than just "explained away". selective logic on your part


Actually, it hasn't. Others have provided alternative explanations in some cases, but haven't come close to categorically proving them to be fact. Which means that in those cases we are simply left with two possibilities, not one as you claim. I am not prepared to make the leap of faith that you and some others are are and declare it a "fact" that the entire Meier case has been "debunked" when that is patently not the case. I prefer my open mind to a closed and narrow one.


[edit on 18-4-2009 by Malcram]



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by neo2012
 


You said that I said I consider the ray gun to be most likely a hoax. I do not believe I said that. I think what I said was that I think it's most likely true or even genuine.

We have to consider all the evidence to form a greater understanding of this case

1. Photographic and Videographic evidence
2. Metal sample evidence
3. Sound recording evidence
4. Testimonial evidence
5. Written evidence

So far it is only the Asket and Nera and Dinosaur pictures that I suspect to be most likely fake. I think other pictures associated with travels back in time and in space maybe also fake. Most of them are unfalsifiable for me.

I have never said the Wedding Cake beamship is fake. I consider that amongst the stronger evidence actually. I have no problem with its aesthetic.

Why do the Plejarens place limitations on what Meier can collect as evidence? Well they have explained they are not trying to prove their existence but only give enough evidence to stimulate discussion. This is why in one video they are deliberately flying their beamship in a pendular motion but providing enough evidence to show it is not a beamship. I personally think the Plejarens are experimenting with us and testing our reaction to their possible presence.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by EffEcTiVe_UniT
 


Ok lets forget the pictures and videos for a bit. How exactly has billy meier or the aliens helped anyone spirtually.
What are they doing to promote this agenda?
How have they helped to change what we are doing to each other and the world. The world seems to be poised on a knifes edge at the moment, what are they doing to help us survive and not blow ourselves up?

Why exactly would an advance "human race" think the best way to help the world is to use a one armed farmer as a go between.

The idea is to help the whole world but walk down the street and ask people who billy meier is, i,m guessing most people dont know.

If he can make prophecies of upcoming events then how can their presence change anything as obviously the future has been decided.
I think this part of the case is not brought up much as its even more laughable than the pictures



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by neo2012
 


Your perception of their inefficiency as agents of spiritual change doesn't really disprove the Meier case though does it?

I think the character of Jesus was a pretty exceptional dude, as were some of the early Christians, but I don't think much of the organizations that sprang up in his name or of it's role in promoting spirituality and positive change in the world.

It doesn't really prove anything.


[edit on 18-4-2009 by Malcram]



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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@easynow. How does the interview with bily meier and randy winters prove that wendelle stevens admitted to models? Wendelle isnt even in this interview.

If the Figu community was in it for the money would you think they would make more then only maybe 4k swiss francs a year? Thinking they would be money hungry they would charge higher or charge everything on all their materials. No they dont, in fact their books are dirt cheap and thast just to cover the manufacturing costs. The information itself is pretty much free. So using the children as an excuse for monetary gain is self defeating to all that figu stands for.

Regarding to Kal Korff, do you not hear what he says? He has several conflicting stories such as the accusations of his secre service to "do away" with billy, the law suit, which still hasnt happen, his book deal which never happened, and so on.

The gold suit. The one you provided seems like its seemed into the suit that is under it. The one that is with billy has wrinkles in it. Is it possible for you tp provide a picture with a gold wrapper or some sort with wrinkles? Or atleast posing the same way the Et is posing so we can duplicate the wrinkles?



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by neo2012
reply to post by Indigo_Child
 


The billy meier case is based on videos and pictures so lets stop talking about the oval shaped hole the raygun shot into a tree when there is no evidence to back this up.
You keep saying that you most likely dont believe the raygun to be real and yet you keep talking about this oval shaped hole.

Also you say that the skeptics keep talking only about the raygun, dinosaur, spacesuit and wedding cake UFO and that we should look at the rest of the evidence but you cant just discard this evidence as it makes up a large part of the case.

When i started reading about the limitations the aliens placed on the evidence that could be gathered i began to become skeptical. Why couldnt he film them landing and getting out of one of these crafts?




To EffEcTiVe_UniT: OP means Original poster of the topic as far as I know.

Neo, the reasons for the evidence being presented as it was is well documented, whether you want to believe it or not dosen't matter it goes as follows.
This ocurred in the late 1970's , the alleged aliens were not prepared to give absolute proof of alien existence to the public as the turmoil it would create in society would be catastrophic, they wanted to provide evidence which would provoke contoversy and discussion and that could be debated for years giving humanity time to acclimate to the idea of life outside our planet. The term used to describe the nature of the evidence was one of plausible deniability. This means that the evidence was given in a way that could be neither be proved or disproved conclusively making sure that it never left the public eye completely but gradually entered the human conciousness as a possibility world wide. Which I might add it has, whether its true or not.

I grew up in Ireland in the 1970's, a country ruled by religion at the time the same as many countries which are still ruled by theier religons which is in direct contrast to the message of the alleged Aliens who advocate personal responsibility for their own spiritual developement
A message which I think is most important for this world whether it comes from Billy Meier, the Plejarans or the Bajorans by the way, but I'll leave it at that.
Any alien race coming to this world trying to force theier beliefs on another culture would end in catastrophic failure because of the nature of our current but changing social systems, so they allegdly did this in a way that gave an out with the evidence to anyone who could not accept what they were presented with . That to the best of my knowledge is the basic explanation why you don't see Billy shooting a lazer through the tree or the Plejarans landing on the whitehouse lawn or any other event which would force humanity to accept something thay are not ready for.
The people on this forum may have a long history of belief in some form of alien life but only recently have religious orders even begun to aknowledge the possibility. And billions of other people on this planet are engrossed in constant religious struggle, The message they convey ( which is the point of the whole exercise) would undermine most world control systems and plunge the world into chaos and anarchy if forced upon people, this is supposed to be the only way of easing these ideas into the world conciousness. Even to the point of Meier beng subjected to riducule for the rest of his life.
Anyway whether its true or not you can't argue that its been central to bringing the idea of extraterrestrial life to the mass public for the better part of 30 years, and here we are still arguing about it.
If that was really their purpose then it seems to have worked, what other case has the world been talking about for hat last 30 years without a definative answer?



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by EffEcTiVe_UniT
@easynow. How does the interview with bily meier and randy winters prove that wendelle stevens admitted to models? Wendelle isnt even in this interview.

If the Figu community was in it for the money would you think they would make more then only maybe 4k swiss francs a year? Thinking they would be money hungry they would charge higher or charge everything on all their materials. No they dont, in fact their books are dirt cheap and thast just to cover the manufacturing costs. The information itself is pretty much free. So using the children as an excuse for monetary gain is self defeating to all that figu stands for.

Regarding to Kal Korff, do you not hear what he says? He has several conflicting stories such as the accusations of his secre service to "do away" with billy, the law suit, which still hasnt happen, his book deal which never happened, and so on.

The gold suit. The one you provided seems like its seemed into the suit that is under it. The one that is with billy has wrinkles in it. Is it possible for you tp provide a picture with a gold wrapper or some sort with wrinkles? Or atleast posing the same way the Et is posing so we can duplicate the wrinkles?




click the 2006 conference as i instructed...the link won't go directly to the video for some reason.

you obviously haven't read the thread..i already post a wrinkly solution


Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by Indigo_Child
 



I did a search for gold-foil to see I can get anything similar to the Pleadian gold suit.


plenty of options for the explanation of the Gold suit...



Space Blanket

Google


Manufacturing

First developed by NASA in 1964 for the US space program[1], the material consists of a thin sheet of plastic (often PET film) that is coated with a metallic reflecting agent, usually gold or silver in color, which reflects up to 97% of radiated heat.[2][3]

In the US, space blankets are made by vacuum depositing a very precise amount of pure aluminum vapor onto a very thin, durable film substrate.















more options...






what does this prove ?....it proves that it could be fake, there was plenty of gold material he could have used. unless of course you believe the Pleaidians gave us the material....










I want conclusive proof if people are going to claim that the dino pic is from the illustration. "Looks like" is not enough. A demonstration that using the illustration you can duplicate Meiers pic exactly is what I want.



will this satisfy you ?.........












without a doubt...they are the same picture. stop denying it. anyone can easily see that the picture was from the book.










[edit on 17-4-2009 by easynow]

[edit on 17-4-2009 by easynow]



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by Malcram
 


That fact that billy meier claims they came here to help humanity and yet they have done squat makes me believe he made them up.

Also, as i have said how can they change the world if billy meier can predict future events. That doesnt make sense.



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by neo2012
 


In fact for me the most strongest part that has drawn me to Billy Meier is the spiritual teachings. I am not that impressed with the beamships, but most impressed with their teachings about spirituality and history. They have helped by spreading real spiritual teachings that once were being spread by the Aryans in yore.

These teachings are noble, beautiful and logical and if you look over them and meditate them you will find that they do not serve anybodies interests, except your own.

The Plejarens are concerned for our planet and the well being of the human race because they see us as family. To help us evolve they are giving us some knowledge of the real universal spiritual teachings and knowledge on how we can solve our problems such as racism, war and overpopulation. Billy Meier has been contacted because his spirit-form is similar to their own and as advanced, so this enables them to have contacts with him. However, as I alluded earlier, I think this is an experiment for the Plejarens to test our reactions to their possible presence. I suspect, much to the denial of Meier and FIGU, that they have contacts with others as well, but not nearly as strong as they have with Meier.



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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neo2010 they are promoting the idea of diverting us from WW3, which seems more and more real with every day passing. Prophecy is an indication of what COULD happen, a prediction is what is sort of set in stone, usually with volcanoes or comets etc...

lets look at Prophecy as a noun since we are using it as a noun. This definitions is from www.dictionary.com

prophecy
noun
1. knowledge of the future (usually said to be obtained from a divine source)
2. a prediction uttered under divine inspiration.

prediction
noun
1. the act of predicting (as by reasoning about the future)
2. a statement made about the future.

Billy is merely prophecising about what could happen. This is one of his main goals is to help divert WW3 which would be a huge disaster.

The Ets. feel abliged to help us out as they see us as younger brothers/sisters and that their forfathers was the original "gods" sort of speak and that they attempted to bring the spiritual teachings to mankind at such a young evolutionary level at the time. Unfortunately we erronously interpreted this wrong. And this was exxagerated when Jmmanuel story began.

The farmer is according to the Ets a very old and ancient spirit. Other then that i really have no information that i could use as a discussion. But they did mention they only picked billy and no one else(under extreme circumstances a few other humans were allowed mostly in psychic connection and once or twice face to face). As the saying goes "Too many chefs spoils the soup"

The prophecies is no laughing matter as most of them already came true. People would LIKE to use the excuse that he just published it after they happened. Most of the prophecies came true around early 1990's, but the prophecies was published much earlier then that in the Contact to the pleadies or even winters tapes came out i THINK 1988 with the prophecies in it. Ruling out prophecies as a hoax is very tough. We should be thankful that we even got the heads up as in this world we clearly are missing logical solutions.



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by Frankinmouse
 


I dont think the billy meier case has been brought to the masses. You only know about it if you take an interest in UFOs.
If they puposefully gave evidence that cannot be proved hoax or real then why do believers try and prove it real?
Skeptics obviously try to prove them fake as they dont believe the aliens exist so cant believe something they supposedly said.



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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Neo,
Billy Meier is not doing anything to help humanity except passing on a message, do you want some aliens to come down here and take away all our nuclear weapons , feed everyone in the world, rid the world of disease, stop all strife in the world for us, what are we children? The whole point is to suggest a better way so we can grow up and choose to do these thigs for ourselves. I work with drug addicts and homless people, to make an analogy if you do everything for people who are hell bent on destroying themselves how would they ever learn to do anything or themselves, they won't! .Your argument is ridiculous.



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by neo2012
reply to post by Frankinmouse
 


I dont think the billy meier case has been brought to the masses. You only know about it if you take an interest in UFOs.
If they puposefully gave evidence that cannot be proved hoax or real then why do believers try and prove it real?
Skeptics obviously try to prove them fake as they dont believe the aliens exist so cant believe something they supposedly said.


This was brought to the masses in the 1980's then subsequently brushed aside after Kal Korff brought out a best selling book debunking the case in which he fabricated evidence to discredit the case , one of the people who actually worked on the book posted previously and stated this as fact, and its been documented in other places, it was accepted as fact at the time and the case dropped from the public eye.
As for the rest did you actually read my post properly, it explains your question.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by Frankinmouse]



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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yes, you have satisfied my curiosity about the dino pictures, i will ask billy meier and see what he thinks of it. This is a very good comparison but even when this is proved as a excellent comparison you cannot possibly label the whole case as a hoax due to 1 fault.

Regarding to the prophecies and neo claiming that they didnt do anything for us. It is because the governments does not listen to the warning resulting in no change.

I would like to bring up another question. Why if billy is such a hoax does he have a military operations base near him admitting that they listen to billy meier 24/7. If he was such a hoax then why are the militaries of the world wasting so much time and effort on him monitoring all his conversations and so on and so forth.



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by Frankinmouse
 


The fact it took only one person Karl Koff to tell a lie and everyone just readily accept it just illustrates how much people wanted to believe Meier was a hoax.

Think about how many toes Meier is stepping on

1. He reveals the Abrahmic God is false
2. He reveals that homosexuality is considered unnatural by the Plejarens
3. He reveals the original Jesus was an ordinary man named Jmmanuel and he was the child of an ET.
4. He reveals ET exists and that they are our forefathers
5. He reveals reincarnation is fact

Surprisingly, it is the last one that gets the most. Most people in the West do not want to believe in reincarnation. They find the whole concept of constantly coming back in the world to be repugnant.

This may explain why there is so much bile and seething hate against him.
I find it ironic that he is portrayed as a prophet and just like Jesus was, he is being persecuted as well. It just goes to show how little has changed since the times of Jesus.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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indigo this could very well explain the 21 documented assasination attempts on his life

But people tend to look the other way for that. That was what caught my eye



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by Frankinmouse
 


If we shouldnt expect them to treat us like children then why dont they present us with some real evidence instead of evidence that they know can be disputed.
I wouldnt expect them to take away our nukes and promise to give them back if we play nicely with each other.
They are the ones who said they came here to help humanity and i am just curious as to how they are doing this.



posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by neo2012
 


To understand their motives you need to understand something about their science, philosophy and culture. According to them we are spirits that are evolving over time, literally millions and billions of years, and how we evolve is based on our own free will and choice. If we miss a natural step in our evolution such as ET intervening and dictating to us how we should live it will be detrimental to our evolution. So to ensure that we have a natural evolution ET cannot actively intervene. They can, however, share knowledge and teachings through human messengers. Hence why in previous religions messengers would have contacts with "angels" The angels were none other than the ET.

If ET suddenly appeared before the world tomorrow there will be worldwide pandamonium. This is why they are easing humanity into contact, gradually testing the waters by allowing their beamships to be seen and photographed and giving bits of evidence to stimulate discussion.
When humanity is sufficiently developed enough to accept the existence of ET and the truths of reality, then ET's will reveal themselves and perhaps even openly engage us in trade, science, culture and technology. At this moment only some governments in the wold have some contact with ET.




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