The Great Gun Rush

Americans are snapping up guns and ammunition at an increasingly alarming rate despite drastic price increases on arms and economic downturn. But it's the economic downturn, as well as the fear that Obama will limit gun access that is fueling the run for the guns. A must see coverage by Lesley Stahl for the investigative news show 60 Minutes.

Here is the whole segment without interruptions or commercials. I used the highest framerate, AV bitrate and screen size available within the weight limit alloted for the media portal. Aired on CBS April 12th.



So i'm thinking a little gold and silver might be a wise investment right about now

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[edit on 14-4-2009 by The All Seeing I]

To shed a little more light on this subject...

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Data from the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) shows a 42 percent increase in November firearm purchaser background checks.

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Makes me wonder where the maroon/red bar is at for dec, feb, mar ...

[edit on 15-4-2009 by The All Seeing I]

So no wonder the Department of Homeland Security created a threat assessment that labels gun owners as potential terrorists... called the Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment (PDF link)

Full details and discussion can be found on this thread
and this thread
and this website.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by The All Seeing I]

I've always been into guns and have bought them regularly as funds become available. Since AWB talk is all the buzz I have been buying them as I find them.

A benefit of this I guess is that as a lifelong gun-nut and a shooting instructor who until recently was living in a slave state I've always been on the defense against the onslaught of pro-totalitarian types some of which are pretty close friends despite their love of shackles but now they're coming to me asking my advice and wanting to spend range time with me. Of course they still have their "government knows best" tendencies but a little light is hitting the shadows for them. While for me, and I imagine many other shooters, a whole lot of shadow is starting to block out the light.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


You say you are a "lifelong gun-nut".

I have had many curiosities of your kind/fetish.

In Chicago it's illegal to own a gun, otherwise i wouldn't have to ask...

but what is it exactly that you are drawn to... other then a sense of security... craftsmanship, history, sport, power?

...and what would you say most other self-professed "gun-nuts" would consider their affection/admiration for guns?

I know there are quite a few collectors out there, but i never really understood why... seems to me that one or two guns should suffice.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by The All Seeing I]

reply to post by The All Seeing I


Mostly it's the historical significance of certain arms. At least that's how the fascination started. I have family connections to most major American conflicts and got to handle a Garand at an early age while I was being taught to shoot my first .22. Naturally I had to get myself my own Garand. Then my own Nagants, Enfields, AK's, AR-15's, FAL's and so on collecting 'battle rifles.' Then I went on a brief Old West kick grabing up various cowboy action guns like single action revolvers and lever carbines and such. Participating in cowboy action shoots and rifle competitions and now IDPA matches keeps the love alive.

Power and security and all the typical garbage the gun-ignorant attribute to being the attraction of firearms are for sheltered urban children who watch too many movies and play too many video games.

reply to post by The All Seeing I

Maybe I can shed a bit of light, and provide at least one answer for you that you didn't list.

I can go out to my shop right now, and lay my hands on a brass hammer, a plastic head hammer, a 16oz. claw hammer, a small, hard rubber hammer, a large, soft rubber mallet, a 22oz. framing hammer, a roofing hammer, a tile hammer, a cut-nail hammer, a finish/trim hammer, and about four other types I can't recall off the top of my head, and then multiples of these in different weights.

That's just hammers. Doesn't include any of my other tools. I have chain saws, large 6' cross-cuts saws, coping saws, on and on and on.

My Model 1897 with a 32" barrel, full-choke is a fine weapon, but won't perform the same function as my Browning Upland over and under, nor my BPS, nor my sawed-off home defense shotgun.

My .270 Browning BBR is a great rifle, but there are conditions that would better suit my hardy, brushmaster Marlin 30-30. My Ruger .22 will do things that my .308 Remington 7600 won't do, and my CAR-15 will meet my needs that neither of those will do. My .308 Galil will do things my Browning .338 won't do, and vice-versa. My Smith M-14 will do things my Sharps won't do, and vice versa.

My HS .22 Magnum Derringer has its uses, but won't do what my 1911 3" Kimber Ultra CDP will do, and even then my other 1911 Springfield 5" will do. I have taken two-score deer with my .44 magnum, but my wife likes my lightweight Colt Agent in .38 for personal carry. I have black powder handguns that hold a special place in my heart, but they aren't as quick to load or as reliable as my Ruger .357.

For one raised around firearms, they are tools. Some are more purely functional, some are true works of art and craftsmanship. Some are more like "fairweather" shooters, and others you don't mind dragging through the forests on a rainy day and getting filthy. Tools are tools. Not one tool does all things.

An artist has more than one brush. A craftsman more than one tool. A doctor has more than one diagnostic tool.

A hunter/shooter/collector likewise has different needs at different times, for different purposes.

Hope this helped!

Thanks guys for the view from behind the trigger.
Makes much more sense to me now.

I suppose another way of looking at it is... the difference between a wine in a box consumer and a wine coniesseur, who usually has at least a dozen different bottles on hand to go with any kind of cuisine or special occasion.

I can also understand the allure of collecting history and i could definitely see myself moving in the weapons direction with my appetite for WW2 memorabilia.

The tool analogy also speaks to me, being that i'm the go-to probono handyman in the family. I had to learn the hard way, that having the right tool for the right job makes life a whole lot easier.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by The All Seeing I]

reply to post by The All Seeing I


I know my self and two of my friends spread over three states are all having trouble finding ammo.

my judgement tells me, that the public is scared that the big O is going to ban guns and they want all they can get while they can get it. i however dont think it is likely he will. the man doesnt want a war with the american public. in a few months or a year when the public sees this is not going to happen, the "panic" so to speak will pass. just my thoughts on the matter though.

Im into Firearms for the same reasons some people are into fishing, or poker, or building train sets. Its just my thing, my hobby. America has a long and rich history with guns. Im damn proud to own guns. On another note, as far as ammo goes im buying as much as my checking account will allow. "If you don't need ammo today, buy it and burry it, cause when you will need it you wont be able to get it." By the way, great post. I liked the rifle lamp...to shed some light, lol I thought that was funny.

Excellent point, it's not as if they have an expiration date stamped on the box.

Knowing how to handle and care for a gun seems to me to be the most important and fundamental requirement for ownership. Are there any laws on the books that make it mandatory to take a class on such? I'm thinking of this as a parallel to driving a car... that you have to pass a comprehension test before they issue you a license.

Also wondering what you guys think of paintball as a form of training for accuracy and strategy in a real life situation, to help gain some valuable experience in gauging time and distance in hitting a moving target... but not just any moving target, if you know what i mean.

reply to post by dooper


Dooper, you never fail to amaze me. Out of all of the times I've read your posts, I've never once been able to find a fault in any of them. Not once. You have the sound, and the outlook, of a man that's 'been there, done that', seen everything, more than once, and remembered it from the first sighting anyhow. I hope that doesn't come across as sarcasm or snideness, because it's neither. It's respect.

I have to admit, however, that neither my collection, nor my tastes are as finely divided as yours. I have a 9mm HP35, a Ruger 10/22, an AK74 clone, and a Mossberg M590 shotgun. Exactly as you said, each has a particular function. The only thing I lack in the way of firearms at the moment, in my estimation, is a good sniper...er I mean DEER rifle, of the scoped, bolt action variety. Sure, I CAN hunt deer with my AK, contrary to what Elizabeth Dole or Hillary Clinton may say. It will sure as shootin' knock one down. However, in some states the 5.45 caliber is unacceptable for deer hunting. Not to mention that Game Wardens tend to give you the Hairy Eyeball when they find you in the woods with one, in whatever state.

I've been around guns all my life, and earned my living with one for several years. I don't fear them, at all, but I have a very healthy RESPECT for what can be done with one. The uninitiated, it seems cannot differentiate that, and so tend toward opting for fear.

The OP asks about the "fascination" with guns. In my case, as apparently yours, they're tools, intended for a specific job. Each has its own niche. Furthermore, my choice of those particular arms is a bit more complex. The AK74 has a nostalgia value for me, as well as taking into consideration that AKs in general are the most reliable firearms I've ever run across. There are just times when a malfunctioning weapon simply won't do. The HP35 also has a nostalgia value. That was the first sidearm I ever carried out into the places on the map marked "here there be dragons." Back then, it was the highest capacity pistol available, and everybody wanted one. It allowed one to be obnoxious just a little longer between reloads. And so on and so forth.

I'm not in the market these days to increase my collection, so the 'gun purchasing craze' has a minimal effect on me, and I have no effect on it. Ammo, on the other hand, is a different matter. Can one ever REALLY have too much ammo? When push comes to shove, and TSHTF, I can't EAT a Krugerrand, but my gun may net me a deer that I CAN eat. Or that several folks around me can eat. And it may, just may, keep us alive long enough to eat it. If I should find too much ammo on my hands, I'm willing to bet that I can find someone, somewhere, willing to trade a bag of flour or a few ears of corn for ammo they may need. Maybe the 5.45x39 not so much.

When I was a kid in the appalachians, a dinky little .22 single shot rifle put grub on my table not a few times, and was much appreciated when there was precious little grub to be found any other way. Yeah, I really WAS that poor. And not curiously, those times taught me the value of a handy firearm.

I plan to ALWAYS keep one handy.

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
Excellent point, it's not as if they have an expiration date stamped on the box.

Knowing how to handle and care for a gun seems to me to be the most important and fundamental requirement for ownership. Are there any laws on the books that make it mandatory to take a class on such? I'm thinking of this as a parallel to driving a car... that you have to pass a comprehension test before they issue you a license.

Also wondering what you guys think of paintball as a form of training for accuracy and strategy in a real life situation, to help gain some valuable experience in gauging time and distance in hitting a moving target... but not just any moving target, if you know what i mean.

No test to own one, but a test to carry concealed in several states. You have to check your local laws. No federal laws requiring testing. With that said, care and handling knowledge are IMPERATIVES. In a serious scenario, those who think just having a gun is enough usually have them pried out of their cold, dead hands by folks who know better. Consider it a 'donation'. It's not law, it's common sense. The two frequently don't coincide.

Paintball has value for all of the things you mentioned, and a few you didn't. It also teaches you when to DUCK, when to HIDE, when to RUN, and finally, WHEN to attack. If the game is run properly, with enough people, one can also garner a good bit about the practical applications of small unit tactics. I'll tell ya this, you can't get that experience from just reading the 'Ranger Handbook', any more than you can defend yourself by just HAVING a firearm. There are no substitutes for training and practical experience.

Here's another hint: Your STRATEGY in a real life situation is to get out of it alive, TACTICS are how you get that job done. Strategy pertains more to the objective. Tactics pertain more to the way you get the workload to accomplish that done.

nenothtu out

reply to post by nenothtu


Thank you for the invaluable insights and excellent points.

It seems strange to me that we require more of someone who owns a car (pass written exam, pass drivers test, air emissions test, insurance) then owning a gun (register/background-check).

Speaking of "tactics", could a combat video game like Call of Duty and Rainbow Six help in gaining a sense of strategy? The U.S. Army developed a video game that they give out at the recruiting offices and have available online, called the American Army... that covers many real life combat situations.

My objective in part is to see if there are any readily available alternative forms of know-how that could be utilized in one's pursuit to protect oneself in the event of an end-of-times scenario.

[edit on 23-4-2009 by The All Seeing I]

Another Pro Gunner here!

Its our RIGHT, end of story.

As far as I am concerned, you don't have to like guns but I'll be damned if your going to take them away from me.

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
It seems strange to me that we require more of someone who owns a car (pass written exam, pass drivers test, air emissions test, insurance) then owning a gun (register/background-check).

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

"shall not be infringed."

Period.

Thanks for the kind words, Neno.

I was raised around guns, cars, and of course around women.

When I got old enough, I loved cars, guns, and women.

When I got married, I'm not real sure what happened, but the multiples of women was suddenly a no-no, so I was left with collecting cars and guns tools.

Driving a car is a privilege, whereas owning a gun is a right.

Thus the difference in licensing requirements.

And you can kill with either one, but generally you have to willingly point the gun at someone to kill them with it.

The right to bear arms means exactly that, the right to bear arms.

It doesn't mean right to own, or right to possess, or right to pass some test, or right to conceal. Though, all those rights are covered by default.

It means the right to bear arms. Period.

Any restrictions or regulations beyond that are infringments upon your right, which the U.S. Constitution declares will not be allowed. Each and everyone one of our elected officials took an oath to uphold and defend the U.S. Constitution. They have failed to defend the U.S. Constitution and have failed to maintain their oath.

I reserve my rights, regardless of any constitution or laws. Unlike the lawmakers, my rights are not for sale. Nor are they subject to legislation.

I see... so since the constitution says that it's our born right to have a fire arm, under no exception shall there be any conditions?

For those who lost their life or a loved ones due to the ignorance of not knowing how to properly care and handling a gun, i want to present some findings that suggest we may have a problem in how we relate to our guns. This laissez faire approach written down at the time of our founding fathers made perfect sense at the time, it was a very different world... but a lot has changed since. We have 300+ million people, drugs in the streets, and more stresses/pressures in peoples lives then ever before. Introducing some sort of a mandatory class that covers proper shooting technique, safety, cleaning and storage... to at least help prevent accidental adult and child deaths. Much like a driving test but more comprehensive. A psychiatric background check should also be conducted, so that people with chemical imbalances will be required to show record of being under a physician's care before being issued a gun.

U.S. Leads Richest Nations In Gun Deaths

BY CHELSEA J. CARTER
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths -- murders, suicides and accidents -- among the world's 36 richest nations, a government study found.

The U.S. rate for gun deaths in 1994 was 14.24 per 100,000 people. Japan had the lowest rate, at .05 per 100,000.

The study, done by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is the first comprehensive international look at gun-related deaths. It was published Thursday in the International Journal of Epidemiology.

The CDC would not speculate why the death rates varied, but other researchers said easy access to guns and society's acceptance of violence are part of the problem in the United States.

``If you have a country saturated with guns -- available to people when they are intoxicated, angry or depressed -- it's not unusual guns will be used more often,'' said Rebecca Peters, a Johns Hopkins University fellow specializing in gun violence. ``This has to be treated as a public health emergency.''

The National Rifle Association called the study shoddy because it failed to examine all causes of violent deaths.

``What this shows is the CDC is after guns. They aren't concerned with violence. It's pretending that no homicide exists unless it's related to guns,'' said Paul Blackman, a research coordinator for the NRA in Fairfax, Va.

The 36 countries chosen were listed as the richest in the World Bank's 1994 World Development Report, with the highest GNP per capita income.

The study used 1994 statistics supplied by the 36 countries. Of the 88,649 gun deaths reported by all the countries, the United States accounted for 45 percent, said Etienne Krug, a CDC researcher and co-author of the article.

The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and 95 times higher than in Asia.

and here's an interesting chart from 2004 that gives a general break down on domestic deaths by age, gender, ethnicity www.nytimes.com...

If anyone comes across currents stats please post.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by The All Seeing I]

reply to post by The All Seeing I

I would agree with you that there are more drugs in the streets, more lawlessness, and more threats.

Come to think of it, maybe it's more of a violent wilderness than when our forefathers first set foot here. All the more reason to be armed and able to defend ourselves.

You talk about training and familiarity with firearms.

When my kids started walking, I took them with me shooting. I took the time to demonstrate what a weapon will do to things like a watermelon, a jug of water, and so on. I stressed that all my guns would be very dangerous when pointed at anyone.

We repeated this practice for years. All my weapons except a few in cases are loaded. Always have been. Knowing curiosity of children, I told them that anytime they wanted to hold or look at a gun, to simply ask.

I would drop whatever I was doing, take down the weapon, show them how to clear the weapon, do it twice, and then let them handle the weapon. After just a few moments, their curiosity was sated, the weapon would be reloaded, and replaced.

All their lives this was done. When my sons turned eight, they owned their own .22 rifles. Chipmunks. Bolt action single shots.

One night when a former employee showed up at the house drunk, raising hell and looking for me when I was not at home, he was startled sober to see one son age ten, holding his pump shotgun, and his eight year-old brother holding a .22.

Not a smile on their faces.

He later apologized and told me that my wife with her .38 was bad enough, but it scared the hell out of him to see those boys, prepared to defend their mother.

You take a child and train him to do right in all things. And that would include handling weapons.

I can take any non-shooter, and within three day, not only have them familiar with their weapon, but hitting quarter-sized slugs tossed up in the air.

Practice, familiarity, respect, and more practice.

It doesn't make for perfect, but damn near.