I can't believe in greys and Reptilians. But I can believe in aliens!

I feel It's time I take a critical look at greys and reptilians. For a while now I've been trying to bite the bullet and accept that there's too many witnesses to say they can't exist. But I simply have to give my critical opposition to the public for them to eat away at so that people can understand why I feel this way.

First up, my personal favorite: Reptilians.

Now I'm the first to love them because I also live dinosaurs and they kind of look like them, but lets get down to scientific plausibility. Today on Earth, the smartest reptile, or more precise, the smartest descendant of reptiles, is the crow. This little bugger, with a tiny brain the size of the diameter of a quarter or so, is quite amazing. It can make spears, count, imagine what it's prey is looking at (something only we humans are known to poses), and do simple math. If you've noticed like me going down the high way, they often hunt in 2 pairs. I find it amazing that they know how to use a stick to pluck out bugs from a tree. They can also use metal to be bent and use as a hook. So what am I getting at with this? Well I'm getting at the fact that they can do all this with that tiny brain. So if they can do all that with their brain, why, may I ask, does a reptilian have to be so big and have such a human-like brain? Now many of you may claim "because it has to have it to be as smart as us". Not true. A big brain is mainly used for facial recognition, as I have learned. I could be wrong, but this is what I was taught and what I feel is right (seeing as we have the most advanced brain and face in the world). But that's the bullet in the reptilian theory. How can you have complex facial movements and actions with scales and skin like a lizard? Not only can the skin not stretch too well, but it makes it impossible to make anything more complex then happy face/frown face. You know who does have scales on their face that we know of? Harliquin Icthyosis victims. Yea, look how easy it is to move their faces. Now we most all remember that it would be perfectly possible that they could use some kind of oil to allow more movements. But that defeats the very purpose of scales. Scales are, in fact, a primitive form of skin to keep water and liquids in. There's a reason why amphibians evolved it first. There's also a reason why some creatures even evolved it to have canals so water goes straight to the mouth. If you had scales that secrete oils, then there would be no purpose to scales, because why would you want to hold in liquids if your just putting them out again. That's why feathers evolved. That's why our skin is the way it is. So that you could have something that keeps the liquids and oils in, but have it open enough to keep pouring out oils. Scales make this impossible, meaning that you wouldn't be able to make complex facial movements. And if you can't have that, why would you need a big brain? And if you don't need a big brain, why walk upright at all? That's my next point. Walking upright is a trait which only two species I can think of have evolved: penguins and man. Penguins have it to have less surface on the ice. mankind has it for it's top-heavy brain. But if you don't have a big brain, why walk upright at all? Hell, I can understand walking on two legs. Even a dinosaur with a brain no smarter than the basic necessity to live could walk on two legs. But to think an intelligent lizard has to look like a human is funny.

Now we can go to tails. Why would you need a tail? Why would you have one? Tails are for creatures that have horizontal postures. Tails are for balancing. And why would you have that anyway? Don't give me the evolution left-over BS. We have a lot left over, be we don't have things like hand-feet left over. Know why? because it's an obstruction and energy-consumer. If your case for walking upright is somehow for energy saving, then you have to abandon tails for you reptilians, because that's an energy sucker right there for walking upright.

And the ability to change your appearance? I'm sorry, but why would this be needed for a creature that walks upright? Upright posture, and the human form in general, is for hunting. Built for speed, resilience, and tactician. Why would you need to change your appearance. OK, you can say it would help in hunting, but if your a hunter, it is far better to evolve faster legs, or better eyes, or stronger muscles, than to change your entire skin and it's format. Not only that, but it's even better and easier to change your skin's color and natural camouflage, then to make it completely environment-sensitive. So far the only creature on Earth which can quickly change it's skin color is the cuttle fish and other species like it, and I believe that's something related to water. Land creatures simply can't do it. A lizard that can change it's color, even though that trait's been there for millions of years, still can't do it instantly. Take a cuttle fish out of the water, and it's the same thing.

Now lets go onto grays. Now I for one admit there's some interesting plausibility to them. A lot more than reptilians. They still have some things that make no sense however. For one, their very skin color shoots them out for being what they look like. Grey, the color, is seen only in a few kinds of species. Mainly ones that live in the water, live in the dark, or live in mud. I'm going for dark based on their eyes. The reason is they seem built for the dark, and if there's any validity to them, it seems plausible then why most abduction happen at night. That sized cornea would be fried in the day. So lets throw out mud and water. Now onto dark. WHY would you walk bipedal in the dark? That's like a suicidal evolutionary path. The dark is very hard to navigate, and even if you evolved those great big eyes fro seeing in it, chances are your still going to miss a lot. And their lack of nose or any real ears leads me to believe that they probably are very dependent on those eyes. But now here's the thing. Why would you have such big eyes. That's pretty dangerous. Fall and your liable to lose one, or both. Their smooth skin indicated they have a pretty smooth environment, though. Rough skin is needed for rough environments. Smooth skin for easy. But wait a tic. If your living in the dark, how are you going to live in a smooth environment? You either live in caves, or somewhere else at night, And either or, that's freaking cold. For now, I'll leave the eyes to the side, lets go into heat. Why don't you have any fur in that cold? Now of course, maybe their night is as warm as day and their day scorching. But then I beg to question why would you evolve bipedal or even upright posture? That kind of environment needs a save 3 or 4 leg support system so you can quickly outrun dangers. And You need a small brain, because a big head is liable to make you fall down. You can, of course, have a crow-like brain. But then why do we humans picture them with big heads or something? Then there's the question with facial expressions. The potential is there, because they have smooth skin. But if we're talking darkness, there's no way you can see the face? Unless you have some way to do it by other means. Now there are dozens and dozens of alternatives to this, such as chemical signatures, electric sensations, or even chirps and clicks. All, however, don't need big brains. And if you don;t have a big brain, you don't need to walk upright. Of course, then maybe the place has higher gravity? That would explain their short height. But then why would you bother to evolve bipedalism? You could have a short body frame on the ground with a good brain.

I could go on, and I will on request, but I want to get to the "organic slaves" element. OK, first of all, why? Why would you engineer the imperfect human shape to a short species for slavery? You could just as easily make robots. Or, as some have told me, you NEED to have living worshipers, why not robots with an organic brain? That's just as good. I'm sorry, but the whole slave excuse is dumb. A machine is better in all cases.......

...I for one beg to question why we imagine all aliens need to walk upright. I beg you to please look at all higher-than-normal intelligent species of earth. How many of them walk upright? Just to get the picture clearer, let me list all the creatures we know of that have, or had, above average intelligence for their line of evolution:

Whales
Dolphins
Trodon
Crows
Man
Cuttlefish
Squid
Octopus
Fruit Fly
Ants
Bees

Now that's all I can think of at the moment. but of all of those listed who have higher intelligence fore their respective groups of animals most related to them, how many walk upright, have a big brain, or even walk on two legs? Well none but man even walk upright. Only 3, man, dolphins, and whiles, have any remarkable brain size, and 2, squid, cuttlefish, and octopus, don't even have limbs to begin with. So why is it then that you think intelligence = human form?


I have done plenty of thinking. Hell, I even tried that remote viewing stuff. Sure I had dreams. But I didn't dream of greys or reptilians. Hell, why don't I tell you about it! I dreamed of a world half in fire, and half alive. The planet had an impact of its moon many eons ago and the scare never healed, making a permanent hole. The planet's atmosphere is massive, but its size is small. It's kind of like a gas giant, but not that big. The land is as big as somewhere between the moon and mars, same with the gravity strength, but with the atmosphere, it's something like 4 or 5 earths in diameter. The planet's life forms are populated by squids that live on land and have evolved simple exoskeletons to support their size. But the intelligent species is a 6 leg, 2 arm creature that's something like 3 or 4 ft tall, 6-ish ft in length from front to back. It's eating and breathing systems are separated. The eating system is a web structure that comes out of its legs and eats the air. The air is so light it's like the ocean, so cells easily live in it, and you can literally eat the air. The breathing still comes out from the head, on a neck, into lungs. It's head is like a horse, but also like an ostrich. The land squids come in many varieties. They fist came from the sea, then went into the sky as fliers. Some then went to land and became walkers. the biggest is a T-Rex-sized one with three tentacles on its mouth, each lined with teeth. Another two tentacles serve as its legs, and one more has become a fin for a tail over the millions of years. Here, all squid have 6 limbs, rather than 8. The squid in the air have 3 on the mouth, 2 for wings, and another for the tail fin. One species lost it's mouth-arms. Those three became legs instead. It's a flying tripod. This is also the smartest squid of the planet. It's a sky-whale like species, massive. Bigger than any whale on Earth. Their population globally is just a little over 1,000. A male can claim an entire continent as his domain. In reality, the females are the species leader,s but the males, like the grunts they are, fight for females. many times a younger will challenge an older for his domain. They duel in a simple, brutal way: ripping out their lungs. See, all squids on this world evolved a very complex lung system that works like this: you have to run to breathe. The lungs are built right into the mouth, and when it runs, they take in massive amounts of oxygen. The heart is literally adjacent to the brain. All this makes most squid as intelligent as our apes. When these sky beasts dual, their wings, armed with large talons the size of a few humans, rip into the mouth, tearing out the lungs. First one that does it wins, the loser falls to his death, food for the carrion squid.

See, that's from 3 days of dreams. THAT's more plausible. That's freaking awesome too. I have no doubt that it is nothing but my imagination. But if this remote viewing business is to be believed, I'm sure as hell more likely to believe that than current Earth-culture aliens.

Yes I believe in ufos, Yes I love the thought of intelligences out there. But reptilians and greys are, to me, implausible.


Anyways, what do you all say?

[edit on 14-4-2009 by Gorman91]

We have as humans a very limited understanding of the universe or of the life forms that may exist. If we look at evolution here on earth as the way things developed out there in that huge universe we are even more limited.

For all we know there is intelligent plant life out there in the cosmos. Mammals are the ones that reached the so called top of the food chain here on earth but it doesn't have to be so on other planets. Just a thought.

yes, exactly what I thought. No planet is the same, and the tiniest of gravity changes could result in massive alterations down the road.

Imagine this:

Here, on earth, apparently we evolved from apes. Gorrilas. Whatever they are. We came from monkeys.

So imagine on other planets, all aliens are, are humanoids, or not always that, but that evolved from different species like lizards, or reptiles.

In that sense, anything is possible, hairy aliens, like cats or dogs. Just aliens descended from different species.

Maybe some aliens think that humans are weird looking like we do reptiles.

S'all possible my friend.

Jacob

If your vision was really remote viewing....I think I will have nightmares for weeks. A planet where squids roam land? I'm relieved at the fact that I can get away from regular squids by just avoiding the ocean..but but...for one to be able to come right up to me on land? I think I found out where my Hell is O.O.

Yeah, it's quite unusual that the aliens usually come in a humanoid form. Greys I can see as being some failed form of cloning but I think you are spot on about the repitilians.

[EDIT] To add the "I think" statement because I could always be wrong. Originally said he was right. Like I would know

[edit on 4/14/2009 by HarlieQuinn]

reply to post by JacobNH


But the humanoid form is incredible rare while intelligence seems to be common in many species. In all the millions of years of evolution on Earth, one species became man. But dozens became higher in intelligence.

reply to post by HarlieQuinn



Cloning is interesting but odd. Conning usually doesn't make mutations unless there is an older genetic code. Not many people realize this but if you take a cell from someone who is 100 years old and clone it, that fetus, when born, will technically be 100 years and 9 months old. so you have a good point there.

I can see how some humanoid form could have evolved from dinosaurs. I can also see how the greys could even be descended from some form of reptilian. I also understand how this might scare some people. Those people should only view pictures of aliens through Barbie pink sunglasses to lessen the shock on their systems.

reply to post by Gorman91


Perhaps somehow, someone got a hold of some DNA that came from an older generation of alien that hadn't quite fully developed it's own intelligence just enough to make them good workers, but workers none the less. Or, I could just be starting to realize a sci fi novel to write .

reply to post by groingrinder


Well I'm sorry, but dinosaurs were around for 500 million years. In that time, one species became upright in posture. Therizinosaurus. And that was only when it ate.

Why would a dinosaur need a big brain or upright posture?

Not only that, but a sentient dinosaur does exist: crows. You should look them up. It's a bird that, if you read my OP, can do all that apes do. It really is something amazing. That thing looks nothing like man. It doesn't even have arms, or hands, or even an opposable thumb!

The only reasons humans have a big skull and walk upright is the result of rapid evolution needing to adapt to rapid changes. Dinosaurs had it layed back. They ruled the planet. humans rules one tiny corner of the earth.

reply to post by HarlieQuinn


hmm. The government wants super soldiers for WW2, thinking the war effort will go longer than planned. Then they need it to fight the Russians. They know that the Russians have too much land. But material captured from the Germans looks interesting. The fear of fighting something nonhuman and superior may help America win the col war!!

The good thing is that no one mentioned eel people running around. That would be my Hell. Eww. That gives me the willys just thinking about it. Squid people I can live with and reptilians, but never ever eel people.

Maybe on some planet there are giant single cell amoeba like aliens of super intelligence with some near-invisible plasma or spirit like 'brains' inhabiting each! The dumbest looking thing possible, but who knew...
The possibilities are endless lol....
The one thing that makes me think aliens are more likely not visiting our planet is that the ones people end up taking seriously are bi-pedal, always similar to us in some basic ways. We're kinda...creating them in our image perhaps?
On the other hand, maybe there are strange creatures visiting us that we absolutely, simply cannot detect because they are far to different and few have even considered looking seriously into the possibility of their presence, function, features, etc.

Hey, what about those 'space serpents' or whatever...
Is that a hoax or something? I still don't get what that is all about, but some seem to think they are living things...

Anyway, I really don't believe in reptilians either. 'Cept for the one that just told me to say that.

I would imagine so. All it would take would be a world where multicellular life never evolved and creatures simply grew in logic and chemical responses.

I honestly don't believe in reptilians at all, and I never have.
Greys, I'm not sure. I'm just not. I've seen and heard the evidence, I used to be more convinced. I'm not sure about the whole remote-viewing/psychic/third dimension thing with them. I think they might be tied to UFOs. I don't know if they're necessarily aliens. I think there are a lot of things that we don't know about that we should.

Aliens, I don't know either. I just do not know. I feel like the odds are small but high at the same time, especially for bacteria type forms. Humanoid though? Probably not, besides us. I think greys could be aliens. I think anything is technically an alien. I just don't know enough to say.

But reptilians, not so much. In my opinion.

The probability of life is pretty high.

In our solar system, some 5 worlds to my reckoning have the potential for life. Venus, Mars, Earth, Titan, and Europa. Out of those, we have know we have life, we have found the possibility of life on mars (Methane simply doesn't come out of stagnant continents), and the other 3 are good enough for a life form to exist. that's 5 out of dozens and dozens of worlds in this solar system. Seeing as we have already discovered a few other extra-solar locations with water and land, it's safe to say that water-land planets exist. On the basis of our local group, they probably are quite common. Now if you can have a couple dozen potential life-harborers in the sea of a few hundred worlds, then chances are you might have a few dozen places with life within a quarter of the galaxy or so. Now the question is how many could have advanced life? That would take some time. But take into consideration that stars and planets have existed for at least 800 million years after the universe formed (based on the Hubble photos). So if we know Earth had life on it since roughly a billion years after it formed, and the universe is some 15 billion years old, and there are billions of worlds in just one galaxy X the billions of galaxies out there, chances are your going to have life out there somewhere. To my estimate, thousands of worlds with life in one local group of galaxies.

So basically, life is probably very common in the universe, but complex life is probably quite rare.

It's perfect understandable to believe in aliens but not the more widely reported ones. Most people think of aliens as short, bug-eyed creatures or dinosaur-looking monsters but if they look at it in a more logical scientific view (like with evolution), it's nearly impossible that aliens could take on a sort of humanoid form because it was the events on Earth that caused us to be shaped with two arms, two legs, etc.

It's not that I, myself, don't believe in Grey aliens and Reptilians but unless there is a logical enough theory that proves they look like that for a reason, it's very hard for me to actually accept the fact they look like that.

On science fiction shows like Doctor Who or Stargate, they provide perfectly acceptable explanations on how aliens look like that. They range from short and vague explanations like it is "the best survival shape" to more omnipotent ancestors we all share that implanted us with similar DNA structures.

I guess it's just how you look at it.

Well the problem about "implanted DNA ancestors" that that if you put dna of a human in a primordial frog's egg, it will form a human. You can't force something to evolve into a human shape just because of some dna implant. And the human form is most definably not the best survival shape.

If there were reptilians, I would imagine them as raptor-like in body shape, with a brain the size of an orange or grapefruit. They would have evolved complex wrist muscles for hand manipulation, and they would have developed feathers on much of the body.

But still, your are very much so right and it looks like both of us have the same viewpoint.

I think that there is a wide range of alien physiology,but I do think the Greys and Reptilians exist.Are all these people lying?Also you are taking our limited knowledge on extra terrestrial evolution and making assumptions where the counter evidence is stronger.The thing with the Greys and their frail,hairless body can be explained by a very old race that has become totally technological and thus has lost all need for hair,muscle,etc.

reply to post by jkrog08


Why? A species so advanced would have developed a means to preserve and stop their evolution. I don't know about you, but if you showed me a fatter, zity-er, lazier human from the future that's dependent on technology, I'd be grotesqued.

Now lets step back into reality...

Look at the technology they're developing today. We are creating anti-wrinkle, anti-age, anti-blemish, anti-cancer, and other antis. How exactly is all this technology going to ALLOW evolution? What you have instead is the complete stopping of evolution in all forms. When a society can begin to engineer their own children, what you will form is a society completely independent of evolution. You will no longer change. You will stay the same for ever, because you won't be attracted to anything else.

If the greys were dependent on technology, they would have developed perfection technologies, preventing any genetic changes or mutations from occurring and thus halting evolution. They would still be the super sexy devils they supposedly once were. yum!

Now as to all the supposed observations, maybe they are a way of looking more friendlier. You know I've dipped in the pool of speculative evolution and you've hopefully seen some of what I made. If I were approached by a squid person that walked on all fours and had robotic appendages, I'd be freaked out of my willies! But show me something humanistic, and I'm willing to listen to what you say.

Wouldn't an intelligent species chose forms that were more friendlier? Now you wouldn't want to use the human form exactly because that send someone into thinking that science is wrong on evolution, thus preventing a society's civilians from trusting science thus preventing them from ever advancing. However, chose a form that looks like a human, but isn't, and you simplify aliens enough. They can be understood and you can give empathy to them, but you know you are not related to them.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by Gorman91]

But why?
Is there a need.

There might be the same evidence for creation and God.
So why believe in them.
Where there is a need there is a belief.

I'll check back to your original post to see why there is a need
to believe in ETs.

I see no need except for what was on the minds of the people
giving the original Roswell ET reports.
If that was a lie then why follow a lie.

Some people must think creation and God is a lie.
Thus surly they don't believe in creation and God.