Enjoy your lies

reply to post by Bombeni


My only problem with all what you just said is your belief in baptism and the remission of sins. I always find that dangerous, like there is no rammifications for actions, do what you want, ask for gods forgiveness (in your case via baptism) and all is forgotten. To me that is dangerous thinking that leads to dangerous behavior.

reply to post by stereovoyaged


Being baptized in no way makes me think I have a get out of jail free card. And although the creed lists baptism, I have come to believe that can be baptism by water and/or spirit. It is just an act, an act to show your willingness to set aside your own ego and make a symbolic gesture towards asking God to live within you. You then need to strive each day to please God, although we are never going to be good enough. That is why God did the extreme and sent His son to stand in our place; we were most fully forgiven of our sin when Christ took our punishment on the cross.

Regarding the baptism, whether it be of water or spirit:

"The next day John (the Baptist) seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God." (John 1:29-34)



[edit on 15-4-2009 by Bombeni]

My question for those who don't believe in God. Why not hate? I mean, if there is no eternal ramification for any of your actions, why not just hate and kill at will? Is there something telling you that you shouldn't? What would you call that?

Belief?

Belief in what then? That doing good is going to get you somewhere? I bet if you were the best murderer, that would get you somewhere also and probably faster.

Back to the topic.

In my 20s, I went to a church that was a lot like "Jesus Camp". It was a lot of insanity based on taking everything literally from a book that was made by man. Inspired by God, maybe to a degree. Then again, there are a lot of movies that are "inspired by true events" that are total crap.

Organized religion has very little to do with the actual beliefs of a lot of the members and more about fitting in with some kind of group. Tribe mentality and all.

Everyone wants to fit in somewhere, try to cope with the fear of life, and make the best of every situation. Unfortunately, some people's coping mechanism is totally freakin wacked out.

I try, believe me I try to look at all of this with an open mind. But when I read some posts on peoples belief in God and wanting to please him, and that he sent his son who died on the cross, and rose from the dead, and could walk on water, God parted oceans and all the other stuff in the bible, I just find it, for lack of a better word, silly.

I find myself laughing that someone in today's date and age would believe such a thing, given so much proof that esp Christianity(not to pick on it, but its the major religion of the west) is just recycled stories and rituals from other religions. And just because and ONLY BECAUSE white ppl have adopted it as thier religion, it has become the "end all to be all" of religions.

I just find religious ppl so arrogant and sure of themselves that something exists, which by thier own mouth is strictly faith. There is no proof that there is a God and there is no proof there is not! It just boggles my mind when christians recite bible stories and events as if there were there, when there is ABSOLUTLY zero proof any of this ever happended. If this was any other story, any other cicumstances any other religions, mods would have stepped in long ago and said "this story has already been debunked in the following thread".

reply to post by WickettheRabbit


Morality is beyond belief in God, it's been around for a very, very long time.

Capacity to understand and favor it is an integral part of every sentient being in the Universe...

There are plenty of those who chose not to favor it, regardless do they believe or not, because that choice is not mandatory

That is why I as an Atheist, at the end of the day, at least appreciate that part of belief in god, it does try to make moral code mandatory for many of those who would choose to break it

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
I try, believe me I try to look at all of this with an open mind. But when I read some posts on peoples belief in God and wanting to please him, and that he sent his son who died on the cross, and rose from the dead, and could walk on water, God parted oceans and all the other stuff in the bible, I just find it, for lack of a better word, silly.

I find myself laughing that someone in today's date and age would believe such a thing, given so much proof that esp Christianity(not to pick on it, but its the major religion of the west) is just recycled stories and rituals from other religions. And just because and ONLY BECAUSE white ppl have adopted it as thier religion, it has become the "end all to be all" of religions.

I just find religious ppl so arrogant and sure of themselves that something exists, which by thier own mouth is strictly faith. There is no proof that there is a God and there is no proof there is not! It just boggles my mind when christians recite bible stories and events as if there were there, when there is ABSOLUTLY zero proof any of this ever happended. If this was any other story, any other cicumstances any other religions, mods would have stepped in long ago and said "this story has already been debunked in the following thread".

You see here is an example, PEOPLE, of someone who can tell a Christian they don't believe a word of it, and still be civil.

In some way, once in a while I even find it strange that I believe in what I cannot see, but I do. I believe it every last word of it and it has nothing to do with how I was raised, my parents never took me to church even once. I searched for what was true and I prayed and it didn't hit me like a lightning bolt the first time I queried God; it just evolved somehow after I asked Him to prove to me what is true if He can, and He did. There is so much more to it, but you have to think about these days it takes a lot more than just family or community pressure to convince someone to believe in God and The Gospel of Jesus.

I can think of one of Jesus' sayings "The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. .. His sheep follow him because they know his voice.” John 10:2-4

I can only reference what Jesus said, and I can only testify that I do hear His voice, no not as an actual voice from a person but one that speaks to my inner being. Now there are some angry people reading this, I know. I am only explaining the best I know how.

reply to post by 5thElement


I didn't say belief in a Christian God. I mean God in any sense. Belief in any sense of God has been around as long as man has been around.

What is morality?

Where do we get morality?

Is Christianity the only belief system that attempts to make morality manditory?

reply to post by OTTOKARMA


What is your goal? Do you want Christianity eliminated?

Name one Christian Church in Western Democracies that has as its goal the elimination of all non-Christians. Or, do they just peacefully reside along side others?

Atheists in the US are a tiny minority of 3 to 5% of the population and yet Atheist are constantly in the news and very vocal about their opposition to the existence of religion. I've never seen a Christian in the news calling for the elimination of Atheists. Which side is unreasonable I wonder?

Matthew 22 (King James Version)
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The above is all that is required to be a Christian. Anyone doing anything contrary to these two requirements is NOT a Christian. Period end of subject. What about these two simple rules offends so much?

Many claim to be practicing Christians but very few are. Why are we blamed for the actions of FAKE Christians?

We practice our faith peacefully amongst ourselves. When we do interact it is often through Charity. We are the first to stand up when others need help. In Katrina the Salvation Army was inside New Orleans giving aid while the Red Cross were still laying around in Hotel Rooms whining about how dangerous it was.

We give far more money and more of our time and ourselves to helping others than our counterparts. Our charities and charitable work are made available to everyone not just Christians. We don't go to the Government Pig Trough when we need help, we help each other. We consider helping others to be our duty. Why do you find such fault with that? Why does that offend you?

There are so many threads like this one that attack all of us based on a perception of one of us or a small group of us that they have become a blur.

To turn this the other way. Most people in Prisons identify themselves as Liberals and Democrats. Does that mean all Liberals are Criminals? Of course it does not. So why is it Atheists claim that all Christians are responsible for the actions of a handful of Christians who are probably fakes to beging with?

I honestly believe most of this stems from people having bad experiences with people in their own families which causes them to be blinded to the reality of Real Christianity. Otherwise what would make people be so disingenuous about us?

If doing good works and loving our Fellow Man is objectionable to you, perhaps you need to rethink your priorities; because that is exactly what most Christians are doing. Anyone who is not, is not a Christian anyway.

reply to post by Blaine91555


Those were some very good points. What makes people so mad, something they don't even believe in? Blaine this is just between you and me but I think it's a spirit at work.

You listed the two most important commandments of Christ and I would like to share something I came across recently when reading about Jerome, a Christian from the 2nd Century, and what Apostle John once said about Christ:

St. Jerome relates that when age and weakness grew upon the Apostle John at age of 96, so that he was no longer able to preach or make long discourses to the people, he used always to be carried to the assembly of the faithful by his disciples with great difficulty; and every time said to his flock only these words, "My dear children, love one another." When his auditors, wearied with hearing constantly the same thing, asked him why he always repeated the same words, he replied, "Because it is the precept of the Lord, and if you comply with it, you do enough ": an answer, says St. Jerome, worthy the great St. John, the favourite disciple of Christ, and which ought to be engraved in characters of gold, or rather to be written in the heart of every Christian.
ref. www.ewtn.com...


[edit on 15-4-2009 by Bombeni]

Evil Evil evil Christians. I go to church with the good ones. It would be nice if the church would not allow idiots, but hey, we are Christians, gotta stop hating.

Well the good news is that crazy lady in the film was shut down.

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

There is also some reference to the dethroned preacher Ted Haggard, who was involved in the film somehow (I have only seen a few minutes of the film, was enough for me.)

reply to post by Bombeni





I gave you a star Bombeni.

I'm with you on this one....big time,

What is your goal? Do you want Christianity eliminated? Name one Christian Church in Western Democracies that has as its goal the elimination of all non-Christians. Or, do they just peacefully reside along side others? Atheists in the US are a tiny minority of 3 to 5% of the population and yet Atheist are constantly in the news and very vocal about their opposition to the existence of religion. I've never seen a Christian in the news calling for the elimination of Atheists. Which side is unreasonable I wonder?

Can you tell me where in my post you can see me talkin about Atheist eliminating Christians, where did you saw i wanted to eliminate Christianity ?

Please , can you read all my the posts before posting invalids arguments

In my case i think you need seriously to learn to read correctly what you're reding, i think your faith is disabling something called OBJECTIVISM and LOGIC .

Well, i saw from you Christians,on this thread your reaction and the only thing i can say, is : in my point of view, too much time in church, not enought time in school, your logic is totaly flawed, you're just trying to prove "zomg god is the uber, atheists suxxxx" well you're using the "no-no" button continuoulsy, you consider the peoples not agreeing with you as Anti-Christians and try to victimizing yourselfs as "ooh thoses atheists ae evil anti christians, they want all christians deads" well so stay all in your ignorance (note: im talking to Uneducated christians,im not saying all christians are uneducated) if you think you gonna make suddendly have faith and suddendly embrace the Christianity dont be fooled, you just proved about how much some peoples here talking about "Good and Tolerance" but dont even know how to aply it to themselves

If you Want to Talk to your Imaginary God-Friend, its your right, but dont try to convince everyones about his existence

[edit on 15-4-2009 by OTTOKARMA]

O.K the speaking in tongues thing cannot be learned. They are Pentecostal.

I am Christian and I’m not Pentecostal. It is not brainwashing. It happens to be true.

We can makes bets and see what happens on the Great Judgment day but I cant accept your money then.

Religion is too vague. I believe it’s a one on one with God that matters. I will fight to keep God in our schools and public buildings.

Christianity is based on a set of principles that most people do without knowing. Don’t kill, steal, etc.

There are many here who don’t believe they have a soul, don’t believe in God, Heaven or Hell. That is your personal choice but please don’t bash Christianity or lump us all together as radicals.

Cults like Jonestown, or the Branch Davidians gave some Christians a bad name . They are not Christians!

What about that incident in the 90’s where all those guys in California dressed up in black, put on their Nike shoes and all committed suicide believing UFO’s were coming to get them. They had no belief in God.

You get freaks in all walks of life. A parental right would also teach some children to worship Satan. What is worse?

reply to post by OTTOKARMA


Haha, yeah right, NOW we think that athiests want us all dead. Please, who is flying off the handle?

Remember, YOU started a thread about Christianity called Enjoy Your Lies. Who were you talking to? You weren't talking to the people in the video, I mean what are the chances the lady who made that video is an member at ATS? So I can only assume you were talking to the collective Christians at ATS, and I don't know a one of them that would even come close to "Enjoying The Lies" in the video you posted.

I am prone to consider the Bible favourably and all that (kind of in the process of looking at things, really) but Jesus Camp was absolutely, undeniably disturbing to me.
I can't remember what it was I read after watching it, but it was this really good article about how many kids get really caught up in this stuff and then have nervous breakdowns by like....16 ...or whatever...

I really think it's just far too much of a handful of people slamming their interpretations of things into an army of kids that are exposed to nothing but other like-minded adults and children, rather than facing real challenges to their faith and finding meaningful answers.

I think it is extremist, imbalanced and frightening what these children are put through.
I am no athiest, but I mean, look at this stuff....
Half these kids make me think of little Shirley Phelps.

That is your personal choice but please don’t bash Christianity or lump us all together as radicals.

Go read all the posts with attention please.
We're nt bashing and not lumping all Christians as fanatics so please go read all the posts again to understand what is happening here.

Please ,christians reading thoses posts, stop victimizing yourselves.
You're not victims of anythings, so stop whining about Christians-bashing.

Haha, yeah right, NOW we think that athiests want us all dead. Please, who is flying off the handle?

Learn to Read thank you

Im considering the things said in the video as :Lies
so what the link with wanting all the Christians dead ?
can you explain it logicaly ?

reply to post by OTTOKARMA


I did read the posts. You are not only bashing Christianity you also have blatant blasphemy towards God.

I read your words. Go ahead and talk to your invisible God friend. What’s that about?

If I am wrong please tell me the moral of the story.

It sure looks like a God bashing party to me. you even have some flags. It's truly amazing.

If doing good works and loving our Fellow Man

I do good works and i love our fellow man and im not Christian.
Helping each others and loving the human kind dont recquire to believe in a religion.

I dont personaly need a God to guide me into my choices, i dont need anythings like God, Jesus or whatever you want to call that.

I believe in myself, because only me can accomplish my goals, and i doubt if i call to God to give me hand , i doubt it to happen.

so yes, i do good works, and ill try everydays to help peoples when they need it and guess what, i dont need to believe in anythings like religions