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Obama dithered for nearly three days on pirates

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posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by grover
 


It would be, I suppose, if the Governor of LA could have given the orders, or in the situation you refer, request; however, depending on one's memory watching the event unfold, as seen on the MSM, rather relying on the MSM spin after the event.

As someone has mentioned comparing apples to oranges... there is no comparison in this whatsoever. IMO.




posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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Didn't the crew of the ship get away safely? Didn't the captain get away safely? Didn't we capture 1 pirate and kill the others?

Considering the outcome that no civilian died, I'd say regardless of the actual intentions of those involved, all the decisions made were the right ones, at the right time.

Would it have been better for Bush to go to war in Iraq instead of desperately trying to gain the approval of the UN over the course of a few months? Would that situation have been different? *note: this is NOT a comparison of Bush v. Obama's ability to lead; I'm just showing a similar situation that occured (albeit on different scales) in both administrations.

I just don't understand the point of this thread. So...Obama didn't immediately call for the use of force...a few days pass...the innocents are saved and the thugs stopped...therefore, Obama can not lead effectively? That is pretty flawed logic.



posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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if this had turned out bad and the captain had died the obama loyalists wouldnt have said squat.

somali 3 pirates were no contest to navy seals tho

to give obama credit for doing his job i wont do it.

i will give credit the the us navy and us navy seals its why we have them.

the somali piracy issue is the clinton legacy and the legacy of obama

obama is weak its that simple

everything obama is doing is making the us weaker.

[edit on 14-4-2009 by neo67]



posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


Nope. We protected our merchant marines in WWI and WWII with submarines tasked to track and defend them.

Our Navy needs the practice. A well-placed torpedo or two will stop piracy in its tracks with no threat to our sailors.

Our freighters should be armed with cannon, but they shouldn't have to use them except as a last resort. Many ports will not permit armed vessels at their docks. Sort of a sovereignty thing, I guess.

jw



posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by irishchic

Well...looks like he's going to get another chance to "blither":
Wow, you've got his number, don't you? We need to employ our subs immediately and fire at anyone who refuses to ID themselves as peaceful. Over and done, we get the credit and the practice. We'll need it for the deepwater Chinese Navy coming to a sea near you.

Great link!


I see "pirates" on land starting to organize right here.


And they don't want a "ransom" either, just their own lives and jobs; to be left alone.

jw



posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


I don't disagree with your assessment of what these people face and why they do it. But they have no right to kill civilians and should take care of their own house before throwing stones at others'.

jw



posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by grover
 


That "someone" would've been the former La. governor and N.O. mayor. They utterly failed to prepare and evacuate.

Who was responsible for the inept and corrupt police?

The dismal hospitals?

The buses that weren't used?

The nursing homes that abandoned their charges?

The streets without drainage, or even pavement in some places?

Who set up the radio communications that didn't communicate?

Who ignored the warnings the NOAA and NWS had issued for 5 days?

Answer these, and we'll compare notes about dithering. Obama is a calculating chicken. He couldn't have handled a real crisis. I hope one appears near you soon so you'll see how the comparison works out.

jw



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by Avenginggecko

I just don't understand the point of this thread. So...Obama didn't immediately call for the use of force...a few days pass...the innocents are saved and the thugs stopped...therefore, Obama can not lead effectively? That is pretty flawed logic.


Biden warned Obama "would be tested." He hesitated when he could've acted decisively. He had to be asked TWICE by the Pentagon for permission to "engage." The military will not "engage" an enemy unless attacked, absent permission to do so.

He is flinching with N Korea. He blinked first with Iran. He bows to Saudi royalty. He apologized to Europe. His diplomats blame the U.S. for their problems. He is aimless in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And this is good with you?

He is going to be tested again and again.

How many days must pass before it's okay for him to act? Until Saturday, we didn't know if the Captain was safe or alive.

jw



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by neo67

obama is weak its that simple

everything obama is doing is making the us weaker.


Sorry it took me so long to reply. I try to keep an eye on my threads but was called away.

They are going to "test" him again and again. He doesn't have the will to push anyone but Americans and their rights.

He waffles in Iraq and Afghanistan. He flinches with NKorea and Iran.

We are in deep trouble.

jw



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by jdub297
Originally posted by neo67

obama is weak its that simple

everything obama is doing is making the us weaker.


Sorry it took me so long to reply. I try to keep an eye on my threads but was called away.

They are going to "test" him again and again. He doesn't have the will to push anyone but Americans and their rights.

He waffles in Iraq and Afghanistan. He flinches with NKorea and Iran.

We are in deep trouble.


jw


yes indeed we are in deep deep trouble.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 07:45 AM
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The president played it cool -- in fact, pitch-perfect -- as it turns out. We now know that while he was saying little in public, he was completely engaged. He sent his secretary of state to warn the pirates publicly -- while the president privately held more than 17 briefings on the matter and made sure the bureaucrats at all agencies were working together (no small task).

And finally, he gave an unambiguous order -- to shoot if the captain's life was in peril.

And when it was all over, as a top administration official told me, Obama "didn't wrap himself around the bravery of those military seals."

Indeed, he commended the captain, the SEALs, called for multilateral efforts to stop piracy -- and went on the next day to give an economic speech. Indeed, this aide adds, "He's not about to put on a flight suit on an aircraft carrier and declare mission accomplished."

Not his style, they say.

www.cnn.com...


I would have to agree with that assessment... not yours.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by amazing
But based on past behavior, president bush or republicans as a whole, haven't shown much of the renowned american cowboy attitude.


But being a "cowboy" is what the dems here and everywhere accused Bush of being during his presidency. So, which is it? You can't have it both ways, even though the dems love to try for that all the time. Of course, the other word for that is hypocrisy.



Just my 2 cents here


Not even worth that ...



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by grover
Gee he must be far worse then than someone dithering for days while a major American city drowned huh?


This has been debunked many, many times. Only die hard dems are still repeating this fallacy.

Again, the truth is that it takes 3 to 5 days for the federal government to respond to any large disaster. The situation in New Orleans was no different, and made worse by the local dems "playing ostrich" (sticking their heads in the sand and hoping the problem will just go away) instead of preparing for the storm. Remember the two pictures that came out at the time? One showed all the school buses (which could have used to evacuate the people of New Orleans) sitting there under water, while in Republican Galveston and Texas the picture showed a long line of buses being used to transport evacuees.

And again, bottom line, Katrina was not Bush's fault. Other things were, but not Katrina.

[edit on 4/15/2009 by centurion1211]



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by grover
 


A CNN opinion piece is hardly objective reporting. This is part of CNN's "fantasy life of Barack."

He is a fraud and a coward.

His policies are socialist: nationalized health care, education and energy.

His actions are fascist: dictating corporate governance, mixing the Corporation and Government,

Why did he twice reject the Pentagon's call to action? Why did he wait until the moment before the execution of Captaon Phillips to give any order at all?

What, exactly, did Secretary Clinton DO with the Somalis?


He flinched when Iran ddared him; now THEY are setting the agenda!

He quivered at North Korea's obstinance. 3 different meesages from him and his administration, yet he refused to deploy our most advanced SBX radar at the launch of an ICBM (a "space launch vehicle" is little diiferent in design function and operation) for fear of "interfereing with nuclear talks."

"There will be no nuclear talks," jeered Kim Jong Il afterward.

Today, Sarkozy belittles and humliates Obama before the EU.

His entire Eur-Asian jaunt produced no agreements or concessions, only American apologies, excuses and promises (at the expense of U.S. citizens).

He blames America for a corrupt Mexican government and military.

His Economic Advisory "Dream Team" has yet to convene a public meeting, or even meet with each other, 3 months into the administration and 6 months since the election.

I hope you are first in line with your hand out when you have no job, no security, no home and no savings or retirement.

Look what you've done to my country!

Deny ignorance!

jw



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 

s4u

What pure garbage some people take as "fact!"

FEMA and the Army responded as soon as they could travel and even before it was safe to do so.

No one cares that the Mayor and former Governor completley failed at their responsibilities. Neither one was at "ground zero," but felt safe enough to ask for help!

Who was responsible for the buses?

Who was responsible for the ill-equipped, inept and corrupt police?(Vigilante cops are kown to have shot and burned innocent people)

Who was responsible for the streets with no drainage, or even pavement in places?

Who was responsible for shoddy hospitals and school systems?

Who was responsible for nursing homes abandoning their charges?

Who was reponsible for "first responders" who refused to respond, and couldn't communicate if they did?

Who was responsible for looters?

Who refused to heed NOAA and NWS warnings 5 days before landfall?

Blind ignorance makes me sick to my stomach.

Deny ignorance.

jw



posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


During WWI and WWII we were fighting an organised military. These people aren't a military and they are hardly organised.

These are desperate people. Living in a failed state, watching impotently as the livelihood they knew is taken away from them. On land their government is a joke and in the water the fish they used to rely on are nearly gone.

They turn to what they can in order to feed their families and try and make a better life for themselves. And you want to attack them with the power of our navy?

The tax cost alone would be prohibitive not to mention the overkill. Besides the fact that we are trying to patrol an area roughly the size of Texas.

I believe it is up to our merchant sailors to defend themselves. I understand ports not wanting armed vessels to dock but perhaps a compromise can be reached.



posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno

During WWI and WWII we were fighting an organised military. These people aren't a military and they are hardly organised.


Nope, again. Germans used 1 or 2 (u-)boats tasked to certain "lanes." Same tactic as Somalis. The Somalis are well organized and well armed. They are not well trained, but have no fear of death.


These are desperate people. Living in a failed state, watching impotently as the livelihood they knew is taken away from them. They turn to what they can in order to feed their families and try and make a better life for themselves.


Do you really believe the pirates are former fishermen? They "retire" when they're paid?

The pirates' ransoms go to buying more arms or to enrich their sponsoring tribal warlords.

(Say 1 group of pirates received the $5MM ransom, you think they bought food with it? Built houses? Quit being pirates? What, is there a 'pirate factory' that sends out new ones as the old ones take their spoils and retire?)


And you want to attack them with the power of our navy?


YES!


The tax cost alone would be prohibitive not to mention the overkill.

The boats are already in the water. Why not have them do something useful instead of "simulations" while they're out there?


Besides the fact that we are trying to patrol an area roughly the size of Texas.


Germany patrolled the North Sea, English Channel, Mediterranean, and Atlantic. The Gulf of Aden and Indian Ocean along the African coastline are nothing. These are defined "shipping lanes" just like the Transcontinental Railway, Chisholm Trail and Western Trek were 150 years ago. We called them "bandits" back then. And it didn't stop us from stopping them


I believe it is up to our merchant sailors to defend themselves.


Thses are working men who undertook to load, drive and unload boats. Now we ask them to conscript themselves to military duty as well? If your boss told you you would now have to fight to the death as another assignment, for the same pay, would you?


I understand ports not wanting armed vessels to dock but perhaps a compromise can be reached.


Changing diplomatic relations and our way of business to accomodate thieves? You are not serious on that one, are you? Would you make them incur additional shipping costs to change routes, too? Are you ready to pay double for imports until the pirates change routes too, then pay more as we change again?

You stand up to a bully. You do not change your life only to allow him to keep bullying.

Do you really think they'd stop if sailors had guns? The pirates would just use bigger guns!

(The French, of all people, used their Navy to track and intercept 11 pirates yesterday. No lives lost. America is now looking to the French as examples of fortitude!)

I really am disgusted by the weakness Americans now display in so many things; banking, loan and insurance underwriting, defense of borders and country, to name a few. Sometimes common sense and sound business means you have to tell a potential customer "No." Sometimes you have to tell a neighbor "Clean up your place or I'll do it for you my way."

I'd hate to see your neighborhood and your business' P&L or Balance Sheet.

Look what you've done to my Country.

jw



posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 10:52 AM
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Obama dithered because he had to make sure he didn't have any cousins on that pirate crew first.




posted on Apr, 18 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
Obama dithered because he had to make sure he didn't have any cousins on that pirate crew first.


And thats where it always ends up.
Nothing he does will ever be good enough.
For the next 8 years, this is where it's always gonna end up.
The problem is not that hes not good enough, it's that he's not white enough.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by Grimstad]



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Grimstad

Originally posted by Bombeni
Obama dithered because he had to make sure he didn't have any cousins on that pirate crew first.

And thats where it always ends up.
Nothing he does will ever be good enough.
For the next 8 years, this is where it's always gonna end up.
The problem is not that hes not good enough, it's that he's not white enough.


Except, he's just not up to the job.

Obama blinked, and now Iran, N. Korea, France and Nicaragua are joking about him and denigrating him and our Country.

Read the following thread to see how Obama took false credit and his administration lied.

Here's what happened in Somali waters:
"SEAL Report"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nothing racial. 100% about incompetence and deceit.

Deny ignorance.

jw

[edit on 20-4-2009 by jdub297]



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