US May Drop Key Condition for Iran Talks

US May Drop Key Condition for Iran Talks

www.nytimes.com

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration and its European allies are preparing proposals that would shift strategy toward Iran by dropping a longstanding American insistence that Tehran rapidly shut down nuclear facilities during the early phases of negotiations over its atomic program, according to officials involved in the discussions.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I have only one comment on this and one only. What do we all think Israel is going to have to say about this?

If this in the end gets Iran to tone it down and back off the manufacture (allegedly) of Nuclear Arms, great, but Israel will not sit by and let this sort of continued aggression as they see it continue.

I smell a setup..

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

They'll do like they did in Syria, just blow the plant up. Israel is terrified of Iran, for no reason other than they are attempting to rule that part of the world through force and propaganda.

The US is right to take down those restrictions, Iran deserves a Nuke as far as I'm concerned, maybe that way they could stop being so opressed and actually contribute to world affairs.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


All due respect, Israel are not trying to 'dominate' that part of the world.
I don’t like Israel, and I don’t agree with their policies, but we cant go saying stupid things.

Israel are far from the regional bully looking to take over the region.
Israel, are more like that bully who became silent when his enemies grew stronger and taller than he did, now he risks lashing out before his victims return the ass whooping he's been dishing out for decades.

Israel have a justified right in fearing a nuclear Iran,
Iran have stated, the next war will bring back their religious imam. And for a nation that is driven by religion, that’s not a comment worth ignoring.

Also, Iran do fund and assist Hezbollah and Hamas.
All the while pushing Syria too.

Iran have effectively taken over Iraq, through absolute stupidity on the United States part.

They have high quality weapons, sophisticated missiles and anti-ship / anti-air missiles.

They have Russian and Chinese backing.

They have a nuclear friend in Nkorea

They have a massive population base that is extremely young.

and they have been staring down Israel and the US for years now.

Iran are not building common power stations in the mountains either, they are researching nuclear weapons. They would be stupid not to.

And, the main point, is that all this rhetoric about A nuclear Iran is extreme Hypocrisy.

Israel destabilised the region when they brought in their nuclear weapons, and seemingly bomb neighbours at will.

no, I believe Israel is going get what it deserves if it tries something stupid.
I believe the US government can see this, and that’s why they are starting to ease up a bit.

reply to post by vkey08

I have only one comment on this and one only. What do we all think Israel is going to have to say about this?

I have a comment regarding that comment.

How about we leave Israel entirely out of the picture, since their reply is as predictable as the sun rising: "Bomb them."

They don't want to give diplomacy a chance in the first place, hence why give them a say in the talks?

but Israel will not sit by and let this sort of continued aggression as they see it continue.

What aggression?

Detesting the Israeli regime is not justification to pre-emptively attack Iran. I don't care what planet you're from.

Aside from that Iran hasn't touched another country in more than a century, and won't, unless Israel pushes them into corner and attacks them first.

Like Israel, they've been invaded numerous times in the 20th Century but never proactively attacked anyone.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Well I do have to agree ,perhaps my comments were ill placed. However you are right, the US knows that Israel might do something stupid and don't want to have a nuclear war on their hands, or even Israel at war with anybody.

They'd probably get dragged into it anyway, which isn't good for anybody. However I think we give less credit to Iran than we should, all those things they have, the US has, yet nobody is afraid of them having the biggest stockpile of nuclear weaponry.

It's a very complex situation that I understand, but there is ALOT of hypocracy that goes on between nations and their foreign affairs dealing within the Middle East.

I don't agree with some of Iran's policies, I disagree far more with Israel's and EVEN more with the US' most of the time, but as you said, they will keep a close watch.

They are a powder keg right now just waiting to go off, I wonder who will light the fire?

~Keeper

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


maybe I wasn't clear on my wording. Israel sees them as a threat, not the United States. Israel sees anyone in the middle east besides themselves as an aggressor if they have technology equal to or better than theirs. Wasn't making a comment on what was, just how that little country perceives it.

Of course, Team Obama and his European counterparts have "shifted" their strategy against Iran over its nuclear program. Takes no rocket scientist to figure out why either. They realize that the defunct and ineffectual U.N. is not willing to halt such; they have removed the military strike option; they have gleefully taken the route of appeasement, errrr, sorry, 'engagement'.

In essence, Team Obama and company simply realize that Iran will not halt its nuclear program no matter the amount of 'carrots' offered and sanctions enacted, thus have willingly accepted a nuclear Iran as fact.


*edit*

Very nice post, Agit8dChop; definately not one I would have expected.

[edit on 13-4-2009 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop


All due respect, Israel are not trying to 'dominate' that part of the world.
I don’t like Israel, and I don’t agree with their policies, but we cant go saying stupid things.

Israel are far from the regional bully looking to take over the region.
Israel, are more like that bully who became silent when his enemies grew stronger and taller than he did, now he risks lashing out before his victims return the ass whooping he's been dishing out for decades

best.2.paragraphs.in.history.regarding.israel!

STARRED!!!!!!!!

reply to post by vkey08
I'm just waiting for this one to be royally screwed up. Wtf is Obama and Co. thinking? They really think they can talk sense into this clown that'll be the day.

Can anyone tell me the last time Israel actually fired a rocket or dropped a bomb on Iran? Oh that’s right, it never happened. They have also never attacked Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, Morocco, Sudan, Turkey.

They have only fought wars with Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon but only in self defense.

Wow, they are trying to dominate the region, I am so foolish.

They did bomb an Iraqi reactor, but that was under Sadam's regime, and was to prevent him from getting Nukes.

Additionally, it is physically impossible for Israel to do anything more than a limited air strike as against Iran, and the Iranians are smart enough to spread their nuclear program around the country making a brief air strike ineffective.

Unless the US goes to war with Iran, Israel can't and won’t do anything.

If you guys think its a good idea for a country whose slogan is "death to America" to have Nukes, you people clearly are from some other nation.

Originally posted by vkey08


I have only one comment on this and one only. What do we all think Israel is going to have to say about this?

Well we should take a wait and see attitude. Talk is cheap. Lets see how this unfolds. I'm glad this has been presented. Let's hope they are serious Iran wants what everybody else wants, that's peace so if they are open & frank. then by all means let's talk.

I hate it when Israel gets dragged into the topic when it's not part of the story.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


All due respect Agit, but I have to disagree with you there. For once.

Israel, are more like that bully who became silent when his enemies grew stronger and taller than he did, now he risks lashing out before his victims return the ass whooping he's been dishing out for decades.

I cannot recall from recent memory any idleness on Israel's part in Middle Eastern affairs, only the opposite.
When exactly have they exhibited this "silence" in Middle Eastern affairs?

By breaking the 2008 ceasefire and initiating the recent hostilities in Gaza?

A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.

www.guardian.co.uk...
CNN Confirms Israel broke truce
Israel broke ceasefire by killing 6
Israeli strike is first in Gaza since start of Cease-Fire

Or by rattling the sabre and beating the war drums like there's no tomorrow?

"Attacking Iran, in order to stop its nuclear plans, will be unavoidable."

www.telegraph.co.uk...

"It is apparently true that in 2003 Iran stopped pursuing its military nuclear program for a certain period of time," Barak said on Israeli Army Radio. "But in our estimation, since then it is apparently continuing with its program."

"It is our responsibility to ensure that the right steps are taken against the Iranian regime. As is well known, words don't stop missiles."

www.haaretz.com...

"Iran will not be allowed to get to the point where they will have the capability to destroy the state of Israel," Olmert said. "We shall prevail, and Iran will fail."

archive.newsmax.com...

“As soon as the green light is given, it will be one mission, one strike and the Iranian nuclear project will be demolished,” said one of the sources.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

"If Iran continues with its programme for developing nuclear weapons, we will attack it."

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Israel have hardly been sitting on the fence and idly twiddling their thumbs my friend.

They had the Gaza Offensive planned out since last April, to coincide with Israeli elections this year to garner more support for the far-right parties. All they were waiting for was to bait Hamas into launching rockets so they could have their half-baked justification.

They have repeatedly asked the US for permission to go melee on Iran, (as recently as 2008) and been repeatedly denied:

President Bush rejected several Israeli requests last year for weapons and permission for a potential airstrike inside Iran, the author of an investigative report told CNN.

Israel approached the White House in early 2008 with three requests for an attack on Iran's main nuclear complex, said New York Times reporter David Sanger. His article appears in the newspaper on Sunday.

According to Sanger, Israel wanted specialized bunker-busting bombs, equipment to help refuel planes making flights into Iran and permission to fly over Iraq to reach the major nuclear complex at Natanz, the site of Iran's only known uranium enrichment plant.

edition.cnn.com...

All due respect, Israel are not trying to 'dominate' that part of the world.

All due respect, seriously rethink that assertion.
All the evidence points to the contrary.

Iran have stated, the next war will bring back their religious imam. And for a nation that is driven by religion, that’s not a comment worth ignoring.

You do realise every single quotation out of Ahmadinejad's mouth from the "Israel off the map" speech to the "Return of the Mahdi" comment, even to the alleged connection to the 1979 Iranian Hostage Crisis is all a carefully orchestrated smear campaign?

I'm sure I don't need to remind you all those alleged remarks have been debunked so many times it's not funny. Every single one was mistranslated, taken out of context, or even outrightly fabricated.

Also, Iran do fund and assist Hezbollah and Hamas.
All the while pushing Syria too.

A taste of their own medicine, and nothing short of it either.

Mossad and the CIA are funding and supporting Iranian anti-government terrorist groups like the Communist MEK, a designated terrorist movement (ironically even by the US) which is responsible for many attacks on innocent civilians, in an attempt to destabilise the Iranian government:
Bush authorised covert action on Iran
US wages covert war on Iran-Iraq border
Iraq intensifies efforts to expel Iranian terrorist group

Again, Israel has no higher moral ground here.

Iran have effectively taken over Iraq, through absolute stupidity on the United States part.

Ridiculous assertion mate.

1. Iraq has a good 40% Sunni minority which Iran will never have any leverage over whatsoever, a good proportion of whom are loyal Ba'athists and pan-Arab types who absolutely despise Iranian influence within Iraq.

2. Iran's support of the Shi'ite militias is more of a defensive measure against the United States than an ideological or political attempt to subvert American influence in Iraq. This is their way of weakening American forces and sending a message of foreshadowing of things to come, should they be foolish enough to contemplate invading Iran (who's insurgency would make Iraq's look like goddamn altar boys).

3. Even the Shi'ites have a firmly independently-oriented view of Iraq. While they respect Iran as the beacon of Shiaism in the region, they would rather have an Iraqi Shi'ite government than an Iranian one anyday.
They are after all Arab, not Persian, and while they have may have religious ground in common, culturally they are miles apart in language & history.

They have high quality weapons, sophisticated missiles and anti-ship / anti-air missiles.

They do indeed and for good reason too: historical precedent.

The modernisation of Iran's army comes becomes Iran knows Israel has a long track record of pre-emptively attacking any nation they suspect of producing nuclear weaponry (Iraq & Syria).

Can't blame them for getting defensive. Especially given what's going on next door in Iraq.

They have Russian and Chinese backing.

Debatable assertion at best as to what extent Russia would seriously militarily support Iran in a combined struggle against Israel or America.

Russia has been flip-flopping on the sale of S-300 systems to Iraq, still has not completed the Bushehr reactor as promised and even it asserts this situation must be resolved diplomatically:

"The two sides are convinced that an effective solution to the Iranian nuclear issue is best found through political and diplomatic efforts," said a joint statement after talks between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Russian President Vladimir Putin here on a wide range of international issues, including the Iranian nuclear impasse.

news.boloji.com...

Russia needs the US's friendship far more than it needs Iran's, which was simply a knee-jerk reaction to backing an anti-Western state leader after Bush was breathing down their necks about Georga and "Cold War tensions".

and they have been staring down Israel and the US for years now.

Because America was seriously contemplating pulling another WMD/Clear & Present Danger stunt with Iran.

Do I really have to link to Seymour Hersh's documented proposal by Dick Cheney to use false-flag operations; specifically dressing up US Navy Seals as Iranian Naval officers on fake Iranian gunboats and having them pretend to attack US destroyers, as a pretext for war?

Iran are not building common power stations in the mountains either, they are researching nuclear weapons. They would be stupid not to.

No one and I mean NO ONE has conclusively proven such tripe.

No one. All we have is "what-if" scenarios and imaginative, sinister interpretations of Iran's possible uses for certain Nuclear components.

Iran currently CANNOT enrich Uranium to weapons grade. Due to sanctions they cannot import the necessary reactors to accomplish this in the future. Russia has stated they will not give them fast-neutron reactors or Zippe-type centrifuges. Nor will they give them Nuclear fuel.

That is completely negligible when arguing the Iranian issue, since nothing can be proven.
Period.

And, the main point, is that all this rhetoric about A nuclear Iran is extreme Hypocrisy.

Glad we agree on this!

[edit on 14/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

There's absolutely no reason for the "United States" and "Israel" to want to take over Iran so bad. Haven't we already taken over Afghanistan and Iraq? Isn't that enough? Haven't we got Japan, South Korea, you name it. I mean, which one of these countries do not have an "American" military base?

Isn't there something fishy going on here? Why is "America" so intent on destabilizing governments all over the world? And this is from administration to administration, not just one president.

Obviously there is some central entity under control here that is running the show. Like some aliens or something out there trying to cause mass chaos.

There's simply no other explanation.

Simply a return to logical foreign policy - after the last eight years I guess logic is a little shocking

You don't start any negotiation by announcing that the other party has to meet all your demands before you start talking, it's absurd.

That always seemed to be a way to avoid talking and drum up tension to set the stage for the neocons next war. Now that the neocons are out on the street, war is no longer the desired endpoint of the policy.

Some will call this "appeasement" but they're the same bloodthirsty clowns that think anything short of outright mass-murder is "appeasement"

Israel wont go and bomb Bushehr - its allready running in low power test modes , and to hit it now would iiradiate the ME - which would bring down a # storm like they have never seen.

Egypt have M1A2 MBT`s and SAudi Arabia allready has nukes IMO - chinese ones at that.

^^ all IMO of course.

This may be a "shift" in the status-quo policy with Iran, but this was never a shift in Obama's strategy. Heck, during the primaries he admitted that, as president, he would be talking to Iran with no conditions. Now, when he was called on it by his opponents, he stumbled, mumbled, and bumbled, but the fact was that this was his intention all along.

Originally posted by MegaCuriousLike some aliens or something out there trying to cause mass chaos.

There's simply no other explanation.

Yeah... couldn't be anything but aliens, could it?

Here... I'll give you a hint. It's a three letter word that starts with an 'O' and ends with an 'L' and it can be used to make everything from jet fuel to plastic to vasoline.