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The Change of Magic in the Modern Day

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posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Hello everyone, I've been a long time viewer of ATS and thought it was about time to add something. I would like to hear any of your thoughts on magic (or perhaps I should say 'magick' so we know I'm not speaking of a stage show). I have been a student of the magickal arts for 13 years and have become a High Druid Priest of a clan (please don't think this a boast, its been a bugger of a time to get where I am). However, I ask you what every young student of the arts ask; Why can't I sling fireballs or fly yet? Why is it we can not do what our fore fathers were able to do? There is plenty of text that speaks of the old Druids being able to weather work to say the least, and crafting living beings to say the most.

My personal thoughts stand on our teaching and upbringing. First, most of us are told from an early age that magic is only in fairy tales. Any First Generation Witch can tell you, unlearning is the hardest part of the change. Its something like shifting to Reverse from Third gear, lots of grinding sounds and wincing.

To futher this notion, I think we do not have the ability to teach students to be able to do such things. Druids were picked as children, and taken to schools for years on end. A proper druid was near 50-60 years old by the time his training was complete. We don't have the bloody time to become powerful, not with sweeps week and World of Warcraft.

This is not to say I feel magic is no longer of use for us, I have meet some very powerful folks that would amaze you. However, magic has changed for us, we have to be more clever with spellwork.

But, I have rambled enough and would like to hear from all of you.




posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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I think your exactly right on the money there. I mean our minds are capable of so many things but unfortunately we don't believe we can do them so we can't. Imagine if you took a five year old and told him everyday that he could fly, you tell him everyday in complete seriousness that he can fly if he learns to do it. What with the universe being broke now (someone created new matter) all sorts of things are possible, If you believe you can then you can. I personally can say that I believe I can fly but really I mean I dont truly believe that, I wish I could but if I had been raised knowing that I could; and I do mean KNOWING that I could fly because it was put in my head everyday then chances are Id be able to jet down to california before work tomorrow.



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by WaitingWolfpack
 


This is a subject that I am very interested in as well. It seems that in the drive towards technology, a lot of the mystic arts have been forgotten. I'm interested in learning about magick myself and have begun learning mostly through trial and error. I wrote a thread recently regarding some of my experiments as well as some questions I had. I'd be grateful if you would look at it and give me some feedback.

My Thread



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by Awolscout
 


Very well put. The mind and magick are very much on the same level. One has to wonder with the way things are changing if there won't someday be school for the magickal arts again. ( I will point out there are a few "schools", mostly online classes, but again these are for adults, not for children). Though for this to be anything like the past, I'm rather sure that the change would be massive, as in no more electricity. Something big to push us back into the stone age. I mean, who wants to try to summon rain when Spongebob is on?



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by BriggsBU
 


It sounds like the early stages of Sympathy magic as far as the healing on your friend. As far as the drawing energy from the Earth, that is common pratice for spellwork. (Grounding is a form of, as well as the calling of the quarters or Drawning down the Moon...can explain if need be.) However, taking energy from everything is kind of a tall order, One, thats a lot of engery to handle within yourself, and two, not everything is going to give to you. Some trees just don't like you, you have to except it, and find another oak. But it seems you have the right idea, good work.



posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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I was very surprised when I found out magic was real. I guess i fall under the category of "first generation" because my parents are "normal". I don't like that word anymore. Anyway.


It's really hard to practice when your twin brother tells you you're insane. I was kinda hoping he'd be supportive but I guess that's how it goes. I've met some people who have known of magic since they were very young, so i don't think magic and being psychic will ever be completely lost. I think I always knew that I was capable of this stuff my whole life, except i just kind of ignored it for two decades. Who knows, in the next millenium maybe it'll make a comeback like bellbottoms did around 2000.


I don't think magic has ever really been mainstream so sweeps shouldn't get too much in the way. It seems to just be a matter of whether or not the people attuned to it are interested in teaching others. That's me anyway.



posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by Kiwiemperor
 


Remember wear 'First Gen' as a badge of honnor, thats a big choice you made for yourself.

As for your troubles with your brother, I'm sorry to hear it. I do know where your coming from, I was disowned and kicked out of the house when my folks found out (yeah..did not see that one coming). I was about 16 at the time and homeless, when thankfully I got picked up by a Norse clan as raised as one of there own. This is why I have such a respect and love for our Norse brothers and sisters.

As far as a come back of the magickal arts, It may happen. In the last 10 years I've seen it bloom more much then I thought it would. I'm rather thrilled about this, I love having people come up with theories and ways to craft magick. This is the best way to return it to what it once was.



posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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All my life i've always thought of magic(k) of being fake and never really understood it.
But being ignorant i've never really looked into it.
I believe in quite alot things paranormal, but for some reason, magick has never really been a topic i've looked into.
When searching through ATS i always ignore it, but for some reason i thought id have a look at this thread.
So druids were real were they?
Not wanting to sound rude, or immature but could they actually make fireballs?


Thanks,
Jacob



posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 06:59 PM
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Oddly and from my own experiences I think Mage the Ascension got it right.

Magic is will working, Reality is formed by the consensus of the masses, I still think if you really believe you can do something you can, other peoples belief not interfering of course, the problem is that you don't really believe you can fly or throw fireballs from your hands, and also you have to do it within the rest of the worlds framework of acceptance.

Magick can still be incredibly potent if done in the right way, but the consensus reality we live in has been deliberately set up to make it hard for it to be used against the powers that be.



posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 08:17 PM
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Perhaps it is merely our perceptions which have left us blind?


Perhaps what we need to do is to learn how to integrate the rational, scientific technology-based "Modern" world into our "Other" side.


A Crone I once knew was heard to remark, "I don't need a cauldron, I've got a perfectly good microwave!"


If we learn to embrace the quantum reality modern physics reveals to us, we can learn to bend the reality we perceive at its most basic level.


I may be a bit of a heretic for what I'm about to propose, but consider the possibilities inherent in the concept:


Magick, in the operative, effective sense once wielded in myth and legends has, as its "scientific" basis the Manipulative Application of Juxtaposed Infinite Continuums, and thus,

MAJIC



I am not a witch. I am not a Wizard.


In these Times, I am a Quantum Mechanic!


[edit on 14-4-2009 by Bhadhidar]



posted on Apr, 14 2009 @ 08:41 PM
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Magick is very much real, although if youre looking for flashy fireballs and lightning shooting from your fingertips, the truth about magick may be a bit dissapointing...

Real magick is a very subtle, oft misunderstood practice. There are many methods and types of magic but none of the power involved comes from any human.

Through ritual, one can forge an agreement with outside spiritual influences to perform for them a magickal deed. Think of it as a legal magick contract. There is always a price, either paid for by the user or a third party (a sacrifice)

The magickal power can come from within, only if one of these spiritual forces is dwelling inside that person (host). Control of this however is nearly impossible and often ends very badly for the host. The power comes from the entity, yet the host may be unaware of the entity, falsely believing the strange things happening around them to be of their own making.

Real magick manifests itself through coincidences, often in a way that can easily be explained by science. Only the one who performed the ritual and made a pact with the spiritual forces knows the truth...

Powerful magick often requires blood or sexual energy (sometimes both are used)

I believe there are things mankind just shouldnt toy with, this and potentially dangerous physics based expirements being chief among them



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 04:59 AM
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Such great points, all of you! Though I feel magick is still a bit more then will working, that seems a bit too much like simple 'wishing' for me. I feel there is more to it then that. Futhermore..as far as relating it to Quantum physics, it is odd how close they are to being the same.

I like using the 'fireball' as the standard theory subject. As I said before, we're told from stories and text that the old ones were able to do such. Now, we have no idea how they did it then. The question is how would one do it today. I know it is very...very..unlikely to produce it, but if one was attemping to do so, how would one do it? The idea and ability is hard to grasp. To summon the element into your hand and curveball it into someone's head is not something we can do. From not grasping it in your mind and body, to the amount of energy that would be needed, it is no go.

Thus, we come to the point of this thread. Our fireball subject is a tall order in the proper form, with all respects. However, there are other ways of going about this action that would take far less effort and energy. To manipulate a mind is much easier. Would it not be just as effective to strike someone's senses? If they see the fire, feel the heat, even smell and taste the burning..does that not do roughly the same job?



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 05:24 AM
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reply to post by mostlyspoons
 


You are half right on your post. There are many schools of magick that involve taking something into you. "Evoking" is the form your speaking of (by the by..the negative term for what your thinking is often called 'Warlock'. That would be a person that does in fact 'make a deal' for abilities.)

I've never been one for the school of pratice, myself. I work with Invoking, which is more of a "Excuse me..God Sir..if you could help me, that would be just swell." as well as putting my own energy into the spellwork.

A person I knew only worked with evoking, and I couldn't understand why. It takes a lot of guts to call a deity into you, snap your fingers and say "Hey, get cracking!". I'm proud to be human as much as the next fellow, but I'm not about to tell an ancient god what he or she is going to do.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 06:53 AM
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Maybe to perform Magick, you must completely convince yourself it is possible.
But in modern times, science convinces us that it is completely impossible.
In the "ancient" times, they didn't have a very good understanding of science, and thought that anything was possible.

Maybe that is the difference in making a fireball.

Just a thought


Jacob



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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To work magick you really must know that your able to preform it. However (in the case of druids anyway) sceince was very important. It was held at an equall level as magic and was taught at the same time. I'll see if I can find the link, but not long ago a body of a druid was exhumed and with it a surgeon's kit that looked remarkable like what we have today. Magick is not the fruit of simple folk and superstitions, but of thoses that spent a life in school and study. Thats my humble opinion.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 06:11 PM
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No doubt that magic is a complicated art with multiple layers, in the modern age its become entangled in rituals or science as primary carriers of the mystic energy if you will.

Lets go back to the fireball example.

If you are truly alone somewhere, off planet with no other life around, I sincerely believe that if you sincerely believe, truly deep in you that you can create a ball of fire and throw it out your hands, then you will find yourself able to do it.

However to get you to that point of belief will probably require you to have some understanding that allows you to foster that belief, hence ritualistic style magic, and indeed in my opinion "science".

Will working is not simplistic at all, the thing is you can wish for something hoping it will happen, or you can will something to happen and make it happen because you know its going to happen. Doing the latter is almost impossible especially when it comes to doing the "supernatural" as you have been conditioned against it, and even should you overcome that conditioning you have to contended with everyone else's reality imposing itself over your own.

I think at a certain level of intelligence creatures take on the aspects of creators / destroyers, these are very primal links to the universe, we shape what is around us, most of us passively, some of us aggressively though in ways people would not call magic in this day and age.

Back for Science the modern magic, that is how our manipulation of the universe took shape, and the way in which it currently resides, I suggest it didn't have to be like that, but powers that be felt it would be better for them to have a medium they could control and others could only siphon from with permission.

The more people accept a fact, the more that fact becomes real, and some things become fact simply through the act of observation, without needing the act of understanding.

I know that sounds very rpgish, but honestly its what I believe.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by gYvMessanger]



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 07:16 PM
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Ye Gods! So many good points, where does one begin? Like you said, the void of everything but one's self and belief would be an ideal place to work, however you would no longer have the aid or engery of other living things.

As far as the "Higher Ups" controlling the flow of open energy, that does make a lot of sense. But I feel that freedom would be earned by the years of study. Someone who spends a life time learning isn't going to melt peoples heads the moment they get out of school (I should hope).

Perhaps I was a bit too harsh when I spoke of Will working. When I hear it, so often its just used as "Wish craft" which is a near useless act I feel. Wish craft is more of "I hope it happens...without me lifting a finger". In my view. Magick in most terms is a slight bend or shaping of reality, I think it takes a bit more then squeezing your eyes tight and hoping a pony is in your room when you open them..I should know..no ponies yet.



posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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I’m interested to know what you think of the idea that using magic for personal gain is comparable to using a credit card, in the sense that you at some point need to pay back what you have unrightfully gained?

I was fascinated by magic for some time when I was very young, but soon realised the real benefits lie in spiritual and conscious growth. There are many spiritual teachers who teach that it’s not worth it, because it attracts dark spirits to you, as the angels and good spirits have no interest in helping humans achieve their selfish desires, and it also pulls you down spiritually, so you end up paying much more for it than what you gain. There seems to be a very heavy karmic price for it.

I see magic more as a path of power and a dark path, as opposed to the path of light, or the spiritual path of love and happiness.



posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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The truth is you have choice whether you want to walk in the light, in the dark or somewhere in between.

On a simple level I wouldn't say its like a credit card, though certain spiritual paths will teach you that and therefore make that part of your reality if you use the paradigm as a harness point.

It is true if you use it for anything other than purely good motives you will attract negative forces, that's generally because your invoking them in the first place as part of your rite whatever it may be, whether consciously or not, i.e gaining money in this world for example means taking it away from somewhere else, if you don't do this via stimulation using positive energy (i.e. using ritualistic magic to come up with a concept that will help you generate a income that allows you to live without taking negatively from others and the world around you), your doing it via negative transference on some level (i.e. you force yourself to win the lottery, you have taken from others, that's a negative, the knock on effect of that negative on all those people is something you will have to deal with, its not as simple as having to pay back the money).

However the reality is you can deal with those negative forces if you know how, if you have the stomach and the moral viewpoint to do it.

It does seem as well that people who work closely with positive energies act as a beacon of sorts to negative energy, but I think that's because they actively try and purge it, and so cause themselves to come in contact with it whilst at the same time finding any contact with it extremely discomforting.

I wonder we aren't created good, we have a choice, and looking around in nature good isn't really the way the world is, though it would be nice, should we do what the religions want and walk the light path, should we do it simply because the darkness is so prevalent in the world today and at least a balance needs to be restored, or where the sages of old right and we should seek solitary enlightenment through walking the middle.

The thing is you learn the same principles whichever spiritual path you take, some have different rules, but i mean core principles at the higher levels, if you immerse you self in light spirituality and you truly understand the secrets it teaches you would have access to all the same abilities as someone who had followed their own path into the darker side, the difference is you would not use them for those purposes.

Its hard for me to explain but think of it as self imposed brain washing, part of the understanding you've used to gain access to that higher self wont allow you to do certain acts willingly, its just something you'll reject completely.

Again this is the difference between knowing and believing, when you know something, certain aspects of life are just completely different to the way that normal people see them.



posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by Summerday
 


To start, I've never used magick for monetary gain. Its not that I feel its a danger to do so, but more that it seems petty to ask the old gods for cash, ontop of everything else.

With that said, The key is really what you are asking for. The "Oh god I'm going to loose my house if I can't get the money together" spell isn't going to get much repercussions. The "I want to sit on my duff all day and never work" money spell will get you a boot to the head.

To say that magick is dark is to say humans are dark. If it is a greedy or selfish person working magick for their own gain, or even the harming of others, then you would be right to call it a dark path. However, they would be on the same path had then never cast a single spell.

Most schools of magick avoid they 'darker path' because it is known that it will turn on you (not even in the end, Magick's Karma seems to strike back fast). I'm sure most know the Wiccan rede's "If it harm none, so mote it be."

Magick is like most things, It can be used for good or bad. However, there is no such thing as Black or White Magick in the sense that it is, simply energy.







 
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