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Secret Homeland Security Threat Assessment Labels Gun Owners Potential Terrorists

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posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by Freenrgy2
I get the feeling that civil war or the beginnings of civil war in this country is just around the corner. Consider the recent tea party events....growing. Now there are rumblings that ACORN and similar liberal groups will try to upstage or interfere with these.

I can see the clashes starting, small at first, then more organized. I see the movement to nullify Obama's presidency due to his "citizenship" growing and pulling in more and more people, especially those of the military who refuse to follow orders from an inelligible commander in chief.

I see the rise of an anti-Obama para-military force. I see the seccession of several states due to actions by the federal government and its inability to reconcile itself to the legitimacy of the 10th ammendment.

As much as I try to avoid doom and gloom, it is becomming more apparent that we are being made to chose sides.



I know how folks feel about John Titor, and that he's been branded a fraud, but I can't help but recall his mentioning of civil war. I believe we are seeing it come to pass.




posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by Asherah
 


No... Just... NO.

John Titor has nothing to do with this DHS threat assessment.

Look at the post directly above the post you are quoting, and replying to. Read the document, ponder the words and context. Go ahead, it's on Page 3.

www.icitizenforum.com...

Above is the link to the entire document... Notice the title, authorship, and signatories...

Please don't be "that poster"

Please?


Edit: provided link
[edit on 15/4/09 by cbianchi513]

[edit on 15/4/09 by cbianchi513]



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 08:39 AM
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This report does much more than just target gun owners as potential targets.

Those opposed to abortion or illegal immigration:

Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into groups...... It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.

source: page 2 of report

How about just about every member of ATS:


Rightwing extremist chatter on the Internet continues to focus on the economy, the perceived loss of U.S. jobs in the manufacturing and construction sectors, and home foreclosures.


and this section of the report:

Historically, domestic rightwing extremists have feared, predicted, and anticipated a cataclysmic economic collapse in the United States. Prominent antigovernment conspiracy theorists have incorporated aspects of an impending economic collapse to intensify fear and paranoia among like-minded individuals and to attract recruits during times of economic uncertainty. Conspiracy theories involving declarations of martial law, impending civil strife or racial conflict, suspension of the U.S. Constitution, and the creation of citizen detention camps often incorporate aspects of a failed economy. Antigovernment conspiracy theories and “end times” prophecies could motivate extremist individuals and groups to stockpile food, ammunition, and weapons. These teachings also have been linked with the radicalization of domestic extremist individuals and groups in the past, such as violent Christian Identity organizations and extremist members of the militia movement.


Later on in the report illegal immigration adversaries are singled out again:


Over the past five years, various rightwing extremists, including militias and white supremacists, have adopted the immigration issue as a call to action, rallying point, and recruiting tool. Debates over appropriate immigration levels and enforcement policy generally fall within the realm of protected political speech under the First Amendment, but in some cases, anti-immigration or strident pro-enforcement fervor has been directed against specific groups and has the potential to turn violent.


Do you believe in the NWO?
If so, then you are a potential terrorist:


Perceived Threat from Rise of Other Countries (U//FOUO) Rightwing extremist paranoia of foreign regimes could escalate or be magnified in the event of an economic crisis or military confrontation, harkening back to the “New World Order” conspiracy theories of the 1990s. The dissolution of Communist countries in Eastern Europe and the end of the Soviet Union in the 1990s led some rightwing extremists to believe that a “New World Order” would bring about a world government that would usurp the sovereignty of the United States and its Constitution, thus infringing upon their liberty. The dynamics in 2009 are somewhat similar, as other countries, including China, India, and Russia, as well as some smaller, oil-producing states, are experiencing a rise in economic power and influence.


In fact, the document pretty much describes the entire realm of ATS topics.

I could easily see Homeland Security coming to the ATS owners with a warrant, under the Patriot Act, for all members names, IP addresses and other personal information.They would have no choice but to turn that over to the government. The archived posts would be all the "proof" they need to charge the members under the Patriot Act.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


Thank you for the plain english, layman friendly summation! Star worthy material.

Yeah, this is a pretty dangerous document. Think about the implications for the "tea party" attendees that are preparing to assemble now.

Could we see the inside of a "camp" before nightfall?



[edit on 15/4/09 by cbianchi513]



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 09:48 AM
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'Lone wolves'
The latest assessment started making its way into the mainstream press after conservative blogs got wind of the analysis. In this report, the agency warns that imposing new restrictions on firearms and returning military veterans who have difficulties assimilating back into their communities could lead to terror groups or individuals attempting to carry out attacks. The returning war veterans have skills and experience that are appealing to right-wing groups looking to carry out an attack, according to the report.

The agency cites the April 4 killings of three Pittsburgh police officers as an example of a the type of violence spurred by right-wing rhetoric.
Found @ MSNBC.COM


This is the general tpe of reason why the assessment was done, we all knew this back when and that as times get worse it will pressure those who are not financially secured to come to the surface and do what it takes to survive... as the economy worsens groups have been formed and the KKK is also making record member joins....

I think the Govt has the right to be afraid, the people above them and even themselves at times screwed millions of Americans over and some of the Americans are warriors at heart with a weapon in hand. I just hope none of you take up arms for an ignorant cause. Civility is the way. Besides our country has bigger things to worry about these next few years with our Sun.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


What report are you quoting from?

ATS'rs are a threat to the government because we are subjected to reading things that we "shouldn't" read. Sometimes things are written legally just as a backup scenario because people have to do it, and paranoid people take it out of hand. BUT we all know that something has been going on because predictions have come true, documents have come to light to prove that it was intentional, but yet we are allowed to do nothing baout it, accept we can trust in our Government. One of the members in this post things I beleive whole heartedly in the Government, they are wrong... our government is corrupt... I believe in the need of the government but it needs re-established and we need more rules like doing background checks, doing things such as checking for conflicting intrests (which if they did that currently half our our congress would be fired). this isn't something that ats is responsible for... this is something every American is responsible for, we have to stand up for what is right...but we dont have to have guns to do it



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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Deleted because this thread actually sort of creeps me out...and I'm a liberal.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by theWCH]



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by cbianchi513
reply to post by Asherah
 


No... Just... NO.

John Titor has nothing to do with this DHS threat assessment.

Look at the post directly above the post you are quoting, and replying to. Read the document, ponder the words and context. Go ahead, it's on Page 3.

www.icitizenforum.com...

Above is the link to the entire document... Notice the title, authorship, and signatories...

Please don't be "that poster"

Please?


Edit: provided link
[edit on 15/4/09 by cbianchi513]

[edit on 15/4/09 by cbianchi513]


Oh goodness, do calm down. I never said John Titor had something to do with this. I was merely pointing out the interesting coincidence of his "prediction".



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by cbianchi513
 



I'm content to let a qualified and justly elected representative of my home state represent my interests in legislature.


As am I.

It's just that We The People seem to be more interested in getting a particular party into office or into a majority control of our houses of representation more so than getting in people that will vote "our conscience" and not the way that private interest or the highest bidder wants them to. (run-on sentence
)

It's no longer a matter of whether or not we place qualified elected officials into office for our representation. That will always be required.

I feel that our system of government has become so corrupt and insubordinate to the people that we now require a direct measure of checks and balance between the legislature and the populace.

Maybe something along the line of single issue legislation being voted on 4 times a year by the general public in general election fashion. Then to be ratified by 2/3 of the house and senate in order to become law.

I'm not sure how it will play out but it's an idea.

The one thing that is certain in my mind is that the government no longer acknowledges that it's power is derived from the consent of the people (they only pay lip service) and that makes it a userpatory government.

We need more control because they are much of a runaway freak show.

I guess that my main piont is that, in The Declaration of Independance it is stated: "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their JUST powers from the consent of the governed."

If the people no longer consent to the powers that the government has taken the liberty to afford itself than those powers are no longer JUST powers.

They are not righteous in their pursuits without our consent and if we are all honest with ourselves we can most readily see that none of us on the left right or center really consent with what is going on in this country today.




I have my own personal "checks and balances"!


As most rational people like us do, my point is that our government and seemingly everyone that we send to Washington somehow looses sight of theirs.

The system of Checks and Balances is now in shambles.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by secretagent woooman
 




You'd be surprised at how often cops or ambulance workers are threatened when they respond to calls,


The rational is somewhat understood.

But the point still remains, it is an invasion of privacy in a way to ask such a question.

If there is not a violent situation at hand then there is no reason to inquire about such matters.

Things like this can lead to legislation that require a person to inform an emergency dispatcher of such a thing and in my opinion that is forcing a person to give info that they may not be comfortable divulging. Maybe even falling under the 5th amendment.

I really wouldn't want to see any one get hurt or anything like that but I have to stand on the side of prudence when it comes to matters of personal privacy.

As I said unless it's a call that is of a violent nature such questions are unnecessary.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by cbianchi513
 

You know what's so very ironic about this issue that you have brought to light (good movie by the way)?????

Not too long ago this was a propaganda piece used by our government and Hollywood in order to indoctrinate our youth and the general public. There were many others like it such as Rambo and so on.

They wanted us to fear the Reds and prepare for the worst. While we all rallied behind this it was OK, but the descenters were anti-American.

Now look at this same scenario today.

If you were to sight this (or anything near to it) as reason for your want of a fire arm in the general public you would be scorn.

Times change quickly.

Fervent patriotism is now labeled extremist..........



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by xmotex
 



It is not saying every Joe Sixpack with a gun collection and an NRA card is a "potential terrorist"


Let us not beat around the bush here. We all know that there are ways of saying things without coming straight out and saying them. And DHS has pretty well said them.

When you release a report profiling potential "Right-wing Extremist" that include skin heads, militia, etc. Then you proceed to lump in (just for good measure) groups with single goal agendas such as pro-lifers, second amendment supporters, citizens concerned with boarder security, concerned with foreign threats upon American Sovereignty (Chinese Cyber espionage, or the world court interference with Texas).

The list goes on and on, but the worst part is that they are all LEGITIMATE POLITICAL DESCENT!




Similarly, the previous report on left-wing & animal rights groups did not say that every kid that sends $10 to PETA is a "potential terrorist" either


That may be so but the Left wing report does not lump these "kids" with a bunch of real life extremist. You seem to miss the fact that they are equating legitimate political descent with extremism. That's the issue.

I railed about the tactics that they were using with the Islamic terrorist for a long time. Most especially the fact that they made laws that allowed for even an American to be labeled as such.

My main argument was that if you allow them to break our rules in order to "get the bad guys" then the rules go out the window all together. NOW ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS CHANGE THE "DEFINITION" OF TERRORIST OR "EXTREMIST" AND YOU ARE NOW THE ENEMY OF THE STATE.

I think that 31337 may not be far off the mark. This may be the go-ahead run on declaring political descenters in America as Extremist/Right-Wing Terrorist.


It would be very easy to do, and really doesn't seem that far fetched after this. The real question is why are they so afraid of Americans now?????




The DHS is supposed to study potential terrorist threats. That's their job. Am I wrong


No, your not wrong.

It is their job, but the point is that they seem to be pointing a dangerously large finger in the direction of legitimate political descent and conveniently grouping it as potential terrorism.

That's a (what's Palosi's favorite word?) Draconian tactic, and it warrants suspicion.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 





I could easily see Homeland Security coming to the ATS owners with a warrant, under the Patriot Act, for all members names, IP addresses and other personal information.They would have no choice but to turn that over to the government. The archived posts would be all the "proof" they need to charge the members under the Patriot Act.


I could see that happening too accept for the fact that I've had my suspicions that they have been logging keystrokes on here for a long time friend.

Remember they have new authority since Bush and renewed under Obama to write their own search warrants and wire taps (THAT'S CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN). Sounds like Bush light to me, as a Constitutional Professor and Law Review he ought to know better (but I digress).

They may well have much of our posts already without the knowledge of any of the ATS Administration.

Great, break down of the essentials in this malarkey.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by rjmelter
 





I just hope none of you take up arms for an ignorant cause.


As do I. Senseless violence is never a real solution and I actually fear that some of the things that are transpiring today are a direct attempt to insight the American public into some actions that they (PTB) may use to their advantage in order to further erode our rights.

However, there are a great many good reasons that would have warranted armed revolution in the past yet it was not so, I think that the government will really have to take the first steps in order to get The People to revolt. And by first steps I mean actually roll out in force and confiscate weapons or round people up.

So long as people are fat and happy no body is going to risk their security, bottom line. It hasn't gotten bad enough for the people to make the first move we have too many ways of lulling our faculties back into a state of complacency, and the sad fact is that for all the talk society is not willing to risk the little that they do have.

That's the difference between today's man and yesterdays man.

"For the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our Sacred Honor." -Closing of The Declaration of Independence

Many should think about what others sacrificed for liberty.

www.jaredstory.com...


[edit on 15-4-2009 by lazy1981]



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by theWCH
Deleted because this thread actually sort of creeps me out...and I'm a liberal.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by theWCH]


That's a huge cop-out!

Everyone here has something to loose if that's what your afraid of.

Nobody here is advocating anything illegal, so you have nothing to fear.

Can you not see that this is exactly the attitude that they are searching for????

This was designed to silence descenters that are voicing their opinions against the new administrations gun grabbing tactics and a few other things.

THEY WANT YOU TO SIT DOWN AND BE QUIET WHILE THEY TAKE IT ALL AWAY.

WAKE UP!

Don't let them take away your right to voice your opinion. It's the last redoubt that we have as a people, once they take that away it's all worthless.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by lazy1981]



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 06:55 PM
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I know what you mean. We know they're trying to divide & conquer the general-population & abuse power.

OurVoice.Legion.org « DProgram.net "Legion to DHS: Americans are not the enemy!"

American Legion National Commander David K. Rehbein sent Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano a letter of protest concerning a recent report by the Department of Homeland Security which suggested veterans were more likely to commit terrorist acts than nonveterans.

Secretary Janet Napolitano
Department of Homeland Security
U.S. Department of Homeland Security
Washington, DC 20528

April 13, 2009

Dear Secretary Napolitano,

On behalf of the 2.6 million-member American Legion, I am stating my concern about your April 7 report, “Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence and Recruitment.”

First, I want to assure you that The American Legion has long shared your concern about white supremacist and anti-government groups. In 1923, when the Ku Klux Klan still yielded unspeakable influence in this country, The American Legion passed Resolution 407. It resolved, in part, “…we consider any individual, group of individuals or organizations, which creates, or fosters racial, religious or class strife among our people, or which takes into their own hands the enforcement of law, determination of guilt, or infliction of punishment, to be un-American, a menace to our liberties, and destructive to our fundamental law…”

The best that I can say about your recent report is that it is incomplete. The report states, without any statistical evidence, “The possible passage of new restrictions on firearms and the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks.”

The American Legion is well aware and horrified at the pain inflicted during the Oklahoma City bombing, but Timothy McVeigh was only one of more than 42 million veterans who have worn this nation’s uniform during wartime. To continue to use McVeigh as an example of the stereotypical “disgruntled military veteran” is as unfair as using Osama bin Laden as the sole example of Islam.

Your report states that “Rightwing extremists were concerned during the 1990s with the perception that illegal immigrants were taking away American jobs through their willingness to work at significantly lower wages.” Secretary Napolitano, this is more than a perception to those who have lost their job. Would you categorize union members as “Right Wing extremists”?

In spite of this incomplete, and, I fear, politically-biased report, The American Legion and the Department of Homeland Security share many common and crucial interests, such as the Citizen Corps and disaster preparedness. Since you are a graduate of New Mexico Girls State, I trust that you are very familiar with The American Legion. I would be happy to meet with you at a time of mutual convenience to discuss issues such as border security and the war on terrorism. I think it is important for all of us to remember that Americans are not the enemy. The terrorists are.

Sincerely,

David K. Rehbein
National Commander
The American Legion



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by News And History
 

Crazy Napolitano stands by the report:


Napolitano stands by 'extremism' report
Thursday, April 16, 2009
Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said she was briefed before the release of a controversial intelligence assessment and that she stands by the report sent to law enforcement that lists veterans as a terrorist risk to the U.S. and defines "rightwing extremism" as including groups opposed to abortion and immigration.

The outcry resulted in a demand from the head of the American Legion to meet with Ms. Napolitano, a request the DHS chief said she would honor next week when she returns to Washington from her current tour of the U.S.-Mexican border.

"The document on right-wing extremism sent last week by this department´s Office of Intelligence and Analysis is one in an ongoing series of assessments to provide situational awareness to state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies on the phenomenon and trends of violent radicalization in the United States," Ms. Napolitano said in a statement.


"I was briefed on the general topic, which is one that struck a nerve as someone personally involved in the Timothy McVeigh prosecution," Ms. Napolitano said.

"Let me be very clear: we monitor the risks of violent extremism taking root here in the United States. We don´t have the luxury of focusing our efforts on one group; we must protect the country from terrorism whether foreign or homegrown, and regardless of the ideology that motivates its violence," Ms. Napolitano said.




She has declared war on at least half of the US population.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


Can you please provide a link to your source ?

Why is it dated April 16 2009 when today is only the 15th ?

Maybe she should monitor and protect the country from herself since she falls under homegrown.



posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by lazy1981
 


Legitimate political dissent is not being addressed by the report.

The report is addressing the motivations that might drive groups or individuals to resort to terrorist tactics.

Some might be motivated by the same issues as legitimate political dissenters - we might not like it but it's a fact.

Phony umbrage will not change that.

I am an outspoken RKBA advocate, on here and elsewhere, but even I recognize that some people who share my views might choose to commit terrorist acts against innocents and delude themselves into believing they were acting in the interests of 'liberty'


Considering the rhetoric I have been reading here on ATS lately, I would be surprised if I don't see some pretty spectacular acts of mass murder over the next few years, that will eclipse the Pittsburgh cop shootings.

Apparently the country has been taken over by Communists


Hell, if I believed that, I'd start a Civil War



posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by xmotex
 





Legitimate political dissent is not being addressed by the report.

The report is addressing the motivations that might drive groups or individuals to resort to terrorist tactics.


Unfortunately this will end up as an issue that we most probably will not see eye to eye on.

It seems that we see the same set of circumstances from different ends of the spectrum.

I believe that they are indeed addressing those of us with legitimate political issues of descent with the current administration and Congress. I also believe that this may well be an effort to place people in this category into a place where we are easily targeted by TPB as extremist, just throw us into the fire with the true nut jobs.

Where as you seem to view this as nothing more than prudence on the part of the intel community.

Of which I hope it is just that, even so I would still feel that it is a dangerous path to tread when you view people with real issues as possible enemies of the State when they exhibit no violent tendencies. Just a viewpoint is all that is needed to become incriminating.... Do you see my point now?




Some might be motivated by the same issues as legitimate political dissenters - we might not like it but it's a fact.


Yes but the manner in which you (and DHS would be asserting this theory is a "Slippery Slope" at best).

Not to mention that it borders slander, to equivolate a person with such organizations simply because you may share one or two political views.
I'm sure that you and I could go back and forth with the notions implied by mutual political ideologies on either side of the spectrum and what it would insinuate with the guilt by "political association."




I would be surprised if I don't see some pretty spectacular acts of mass murder over the next few years,



I sure hope that that doesn't happen for the sake of our countrymen and the future of the country as a whole.

The leftist seem to think that things like such always require a new form of government interaction (i.e. new laws and restrictions) to solve the "problem."

Sometimes crap just happens and there isn't anything that you can do, nor is there anything that needs to be done. That's just the price of true freedom. Sometimes bad people will do bad things.


We can't live in bubbles in order to be safe, and if that's what they want then let them leave from this great nation and make their own bubble world among themselves.

Damn bubble people!



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