Ark of the Covenant- What is it really?

Originally posted by Outlawstar
The similarities between the ten commandments and the Book of the dead, Moses and Akhennaton, the dimensions of the ark and the box in the pyramid, and many others similarities, may be due to the possibility that the bible is just a recounting of ancient Egyptian events and pharaohs, which themselves were recorded from a previous civilization...........cant quite remember where I heard this but if anyone can back it up that would be nice

Akhennaton wasn't Moses. There are vast differences between the Ten Commandments and the Egyptian Book of the Dead. I know the conjecture that the Israelites ethics and religious beliefs were borrowed from other religions. To anyone that has actually studied the Jewish Faith, that conjecture is simply that, conjecture. The Torah has both written and oral accounts that explain in more detail what is in the written. Torah-Written, Torah-Oral. You can't understand the Torah by only the written accounts. You have to understand the Oral accounts as well as the written.

The name of the book I was searching for is 'Emeq HaMelekh' by Rabbi Naftali Ben Elhannan. An old copy of it was found in the Cairo Genizah. Tosefta Gimmel of the Mishna III from about the 12th Century C.E. Today's Tosefta Gimmel of the Mishna III does not have it. Emeq HaMelekh describes four records written by the companions of the Prophet Jeremiah. 1. Copper Scroll-Where the Tabernacle treasures are located. 2. Silver Scroll-Commentary on the Copper Scroll. 3. Ibex Skin Scroll-How to re-institute Divine Worship when these treasures are found. (Also known as The Temple Scroll) 4. Two Marble Tablets- Hidden in Mount Carmel tells the account of how the treasures were hidden. (The Marble Tablets were discovered in a basement storage room of the museum in Beirut, Lebanon with The Ezekiel Tablets in July 1952.) The Marble Tablets opens: 'These are the words of Shimur HaLevi, the servant of YHVH. In the year 3331 from Adam (429 B.C.E.) these five righteous men hid all these treasures of the Mishkan (Tabernacle) and concealed the place of their hiding.'

Originally posted by PGTWEED

Originally posted by Outlawstar
The similarities between the ten commandments and the Book of the dead, Moses and Akhennaton, the dimensions of the ark and the box in the pyramid, and many others similarities, may be due to the possibility that the bible is just a recounting of ancient Egyptian events and pharaohs, which themselves were recorded from a previous civilization...........cant quite remember where I heard this but if anyone can back it up that would be nice

Akhennaton wasn't Moses. There are vast differences between the Ten Commandments and the Egyptian Book of the Dead. I know the conjecture that the Israelites ethics and religious beliefs were borrowed from other religions. To anyone that has actually studied the Jewish Faith, that conjecture is simply that, conjecture. The Torah has both written and oral accounts that explain in more detail what is in the written. Torah-Written, Torah-Oral. You can't understand the Torah by only the written accounts. You have to understand the Oral accounts as well as the written.

Sorry I meant to say between the Ten Commandments and the moral laws listed in the book of the dead, those similarities you cant deny, as for Akhennaton and Moses, I ll give you that one since I havint done enough research, though it is more likely that Moses never existed at all.

You need to back up what you say if you can to convince me, I dont mean that in any sort of sly way, just saying

Originally posted by ghaleon12

The Ark is said to have 2 cherubim (angels) sculptured on top, the arch-angels Michael and Gabriel. God apparently spoke to Moses through the 2 angels on top of the Ark:

And there I will meet with thee, and I will speak with thee from above the ark-cover, from between the two cherubim which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel. Ex 25:22

Having research Kabbalah a bit, this is something I found interesting. "Angels" in Kabbalah are actually "laws". So God spoke through the two laws, the left and the right. The left represents pain or egoistic "taking" and the right represents love and altruistic "giving". So the 2 angels, or laws, act on a person (Moses) through pain and pleasure and that is how God is to speak with us "from above the ark-cover".

I was curious about the characteristic of Michael (the left) and Gabriel (the right) and sure enough, I found something interesting.

Thus he (Gabriel) is throughout the angel of the Incarnation and of Consolation, and so in Christian tradition Gabriel is ever the angel of mercy while Michael is rather the angel of judgment.

www.newadvent.org...

In Kabbalah, the left side on the Tree of Life is called the Pillar of Judgement and the right side is called the Pillar of Mercy. The Sephirot "Din" on the left side translates as "Judgment" and Hesed translates into "Mercy". www.ucalgary.ca...

Sure enough, between Din and Hesed is Tiferet (Glory or beauty). And guess who Tiferet is identified with? Moses.

I find that sort of interesting. The depth of study you can go into to find truth is really astounding. Which is why I find most atheists lazy and not really looking for truth, but that is a whole different topic

[edit on 13-4-2009 by ghaleon12]

Pretty cool. And to take it a step further and deeper...

Gabriels Mercy=137
two cheribum=137




Both of those are in english gematria.



[edit on 17-4-2009 by a703o]

[edit on 17-4-2009 by a703o]

reply to post by Outlawstar


Don't forget that moses was plucked out of the river by Pharaohs daughter; then accepted by Pharaoh as his son- schooled in all arts by royal tutors.
there is a better than average chance that Moses plagiarized ideas taught to him in this upbringing.
Isn't it strange. To be accepted by a loving family, given the best of all things- only to the state LET MY PEOPLE GO!
Ahhh, but alas; Moses was obviously upset because he knew he would never become Pharaoh. So, he devised a clever and evil plan to take Egypt in another way. Empathy has served them well.

I would be interested in doing some research on this if anyone else wants to get involved if we share similar beliefs to begin with (i.e. adopt the story told in the bible that it is a physical item) and I am sure these have the scope to change with time/research.

Originally posted by Outlawstar

Originally posted by PGTWEED

Originally posted by Outlawstar
The similarities between the ten commandments and the Book of the dead, Moses and Akhennaton, the dimensions of the ark and the box in the pyramid, and many others similarities, may be due to the possibility that the bible is just a recounting of ancient Egyptian events and pharaohs, which themselves were recorded from a previous civilization...........cant quite remember where I heard this but if anyone can back it up that would be nice

Akhennaton wasn't Moses. There are vast differences between the Ten Commandments and the Egyptian Book of the Dead. I know the conjecture that the Israelites ethics and religious beliefs were borrowed from other religions. To anyone that has actually studied the Jewish Faith, that conjecture is simply that, conjecture. The Torah has both written and oral accounts that explain in more detail what is in the written. Torah-Written, Torah-Oral. You can't understand the Torah by only the written accounts. You have to understand the Oral accounts as well as the written.

Sorry I meant to say between the Ten Commandments and the moral laws listed in the book of the dead, those similarities you cant deny, as for Akhennaton and Moses, I ll give you that one since I havint done enough research, though it is more likely that Moses never existed at all.

You need to back up what you say if you can to convince me, I dont mean that in any sort of sly way, just saying

Moses was raised by the Pharaoh Pepi II (96 year reign) during Egypt's 6th Dynasty of the Old Kingdom. The events that led up to the Hebrews Exodus brought down the Old Kingdom according to Sefer HaYashar (The Upright Books). The Book of Job is one of the books of Sefer HaYashar. Similarities are not an exact match. You have to prove the Hebrews plagerized their Morals and Ethics from the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

I have yet to post in this forum (or sub-forum i suppose) even though it's where I lurk most. That said time to pull the trigger so please, be gentle with a new, open minded member.........

I believe that a look inward could be beneficial to some, maybe not so much to others (depending on your world view). To look inward for the ark, might yield more than one would expect.

I truly believe that it's metaphorical as a previous poster stated.
In light of that possibility, if looking outward finds nothing, looking inward as I stated above, would be the next logical step for the poet.

Just a thought.

anonamousantichrist

There is a theory that when Akhenaten transcended/passed away that moses fled egypt with the new religion of aten as it was the first versions of monotheism to hit the big time that people really cared about. And people still care enough about to have societies built around. Another note here is that in Ancient egypt was Moses was a initiate of the ancient mystery schools of egypt at the temples as he was a step son or Real son in the peoples eye of the Pharaoh, Also note that the Pharaoh's were the highest magicians in all of the land, because they made sure to rise the nile river each year perfectly supposedly although some would naturally contend that this was a completely natural event. They would preform many other events as well science or miracles vs magic etc. This is what they originally were before egypt began to corrupt & the Pharaohs wanted to be viewed as Deities/Gods & the the likes history has such misconceptions. Many People were initiates of these egyptian & hermetic mystery schools of ancients past such as Plato, & Aristotle, Socrates, Euclid and Pythagoras

You may remember that while in egypt learning from the mystery schools Plato learned of Atlantis & wrote of it in a dialogue named Timaeus & it was recently shown to all the world on google maps right off the coast of the Pillars of Hercules as said, Another Note worthy mention here is the Lambdoma by Pythagoras which is the Tetragrammaton to religion while to science it's more than 7 musical note patterns. Know you may or still not know why the colleges of modern days are using Greek Letters as Fraternity call signs (Alpha & Omega) Although the Bible uses this Greek Fraternity calling sign heh. What we are seeing here is a pattern, history could care less who has their act together around them as these fine gentlemen were rocking it around the clock with fabulous religions & sciences making history most people will probably never know about, Just like Moses made alot more history than most know about. So when you are wondering about the technology aspect of the ark & the contents on a scientific scale this knowledge of history does indeed set one back with deep thought

Can you be a Bridge between Science & Religion?

Originally posted by PGTWEED

Originally posted by Outlawstar

Originally posted by PGTWEED

Originally posted by Outlawstar
The similarities between the ten commandments and the Book of the dead, Moses and Akhennaton, the dimensions of the ark and the box in the pyramid, and many others similarities, may be due to the possibility that the bible is just a recounting of ancient Egyptian events and pharaohs, which themselves were recorded from a previous civilization...........cant quite remember where I heard this but if anyone can back it up that would be nice

Akhennaton wasn't Moses. There are vast differences between the Ten Commandments and the Egyptian Book of the Dead. I know the conjecture that the Israelites ethics and religious beliefs were borrowed from other religions. To anyone that has actually studied the Jewish Faith, that conjecture is simply that, conjecture. The Torah has both written and oral accounts that explain in more detail what is in the written. Torah-Written, Torah-Oral. You can't understand the Torah by only the written accounts. You have to understand the Oral accounts as well as the written.

Sorry I meant to say between the Ten Commandments and the moral laws listed in the book of the dead, those similarities you cant deny, as for Akhennaton and Moses, I ll give you that one since I havint done enough research, though it is more likely that Moses never existed at all.

You need to back up what you say if you can to convince me, I dont mean that in any sort of sly way, just saying

Moses was raised by the Pharaoh Pepi II (96 year reign) during Egypt's 6th Dynasty of the Old Kingdom. The events that led up to the Hebrews Exodus brought down the Old Kingdom according to Sefer HaYashar (The Upright Books). The Book of Job is one of the books of Sefer HaYashar. Similarities are not an exact match. You have to prove the Hebrews plagerized their Morals and Ethics from the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

I dont have to prove anything, Im simply presenting evidence

Originally posted by Outlawstar

Originally posted by PGTWEED

Originally posted by Outlawstar

Originally posted by PGTWEED

Originally posted by Outlawstar
The similarities between the ten commandments and the Book of the dead, Moses and Akhennaton, the dimensions of the ark and the box in the pyramid, and many others similarities, may be due to the possibility that the bible is just a recounting of ancient Egyptian events and pharaohs, which themselves were recorded from a previous civilization...........cant quite remember where I heard this but if anyone can back it up that would be nice

Akhennaton wasn't Moses. There are vast differences between the Ten Commandments and the Egyptian Book of the Dead. I know the conjecture that the Israelites ethics and religious beliefs were borrowed from other religions. To anyone that has actually studied the Jewish Faith, that conjecture is simply that, conjecture. The Torah has both written and oral accounts that explain in more detail what is in the written. Torah-Written, Torah-Oral. You can't understand the Torah by only the written accounts. You have to understand the Oral accounts as well as the written.

Sorry I meant to say between the Ten Commandments and the moral laws listed in the book of the dead, those similarities you cant deny, as for Akhennaton and Moses, I ll give you that one since I havint done enough research, though it is more likely that Moses never existed at all.

You need to back up what you say if you can to convince me, I dont mean that in any sort of sly way, just saying

Moses was raised by the Pharaoh Pepi II (96 year reign) during Egypt's 6th Dynasty of the Old Kingdom. The events that led up to the Hebrews Exodus brought down the Old Kingdom according to Sefer HaYashar (The Upright Books). The Book of Job is one of the books of Sefer HaYashar. Similarities are not an exact match. You have to prove the Hebrews plagerized their Morals and Ethics from the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

I dont have to prove anything, Im simply presenting evidence

Not quite. You haven't produced any evidence to prove Moses plagerized the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Assuming the Egyptian Book of the Dead preceeded the Torah?

reply to post by PGTWEED


what evidence do you have that the Egyptian book of the Dead actually came after the Torah?
Pentatauch- First five books of Moses; genesis to deuteronomy; surely must have been scribed after Moses left EGYPT, AND NOT BEFORE.
Moses was rescued as a babe, by the daughter of Pharaoh and given sanctuary in the Pharaohs household.
Pyramids, civilization, culture and indeed impressive architecture, existed before Moses- believe it or not. as well as a complex hermetic religion.

reply to post by KRISKALI777


sorry i just wanted to interject to say how entirely right you are. The other guy has no logic in his argument, feel free to just ignore his nonsense - it could well save you many hours of brain melting retardation.

to sum up...
The Torah contains a set of stories about Egypt and the God Emperor's who ruled it, thus it's fairly safe to say that it was written after these things were established. The mystics of old Egypt by the very description of the bible itself are already busy with their mystery religions and cryptographic iconography when the first true jews turn to monotheism, it's almost certain being as how they had pretty much just left Egypt that they would take some of the culture with them. Compare what modern archeology and linguistics have shown us existed before the time of the kings of Egypt mentioned by Moses with the teachings of moses... see the overlap?

of course those of you with your head stuck in your bible won't trust modern archeology, hehe not since they started finding things older than 6000yrs.

reply to post by ghaleon12


Anyone think of the ark as a electric device and the two angels with a negative and positive charge as electrons and protons. ?

Regards

reply to post by Jaguar23


"A small example of this data is that the height of the pyramid is precisely one billionth the distance of the earth from the sun."

The question is - when ? You know that the earths distance to the sun varies or do you refer to average distance 149,476,000 kilometers (1 AU)?
(Minimum Distance from Sun: 146 million km, maximum Distance from Sun: 152 million km)

Regards

reply to post by reugen


haha good point, also maybe consider what level of rounding is being used? i would guess that most structures on earth are EXACTLY a billionth as tall as some celestial distance when given a bit of rounding...

Almost nothing annoys me more than seeing maths fallacy used to prove an asinine point, firstly the pyramids aren't mathmatically perfect, celestially aligned or corespondent to any higher maths that we know of but secondly even if they were if wouldn't matter - plenty of things in nature ARE full of 'magic numbers' because thats how life works, a few numerological conditions favor survival in any system - Plato proved that even an uneducated savage could deduce simple trigonometry and in doing so demonstrated that certain principles are natural truths, laws of the metaphysical and physical world. Today we understand ever more complex ways of numeric analysis, we understand fibonacci sequences, Logarithmic spirals, Lucas numbers, the Golden Ratio and many, many other quirks of numeric logic.

These are so frequently repeated in nature that of course people have been fascinated with them since they first began to try to understand maths - however they're also so common that it's easy for them to get worked into the equation as it were along the way, some numbers are more common than others -counterintuative as it may seem at first it's actually very sensible, certainly when people are involved - everything from the tools we use right down to the very neurological paths in our brain are bound to throw certain important numbers or ratios up, these then manifest themselves into the building or artwork for later people to find.

This is why sensible rational people demand serious and sensible proof of any extraordinary claims

reply to post by reugen

Interesting point !
I would take stab and suggest that this may have been an equinox. the ancient monoliths of many cultures seem to tie-in with this astronomical occurrence. In particular the position of the constellations Orion, Canis Major, and planet Venus; were of particular interest in regards to the contruction and positioning of these structures.
As with the mathematical coincidences of angles, golden mean etc; Robert Lomas and Christopher Knight do a good rendition of their findings regarding the Megalithic Yard, in their book Uriels Machine.
Here, Knight & Lomas describe the method of producing a universal measurement ( use the sun ), which has uniformity everywhere on Earth. this answers the questions of the inconsistency of the Cubit (for measurement).
this may explain why the Pyramids, Baalbek, Stonehenge etc, all share a mathematical unity.
This may seem off-topic, read their synopsis on the M.yard and I'm sure you'll get my drift!

Vendyl Jones' webpages are gone off the internet but ARE available thru archive.org

"http://web.archive.org" without quotes

put this into their search box: "http://www.vendyljones.org.il/"


Vendyl Jones is the man who was the mold for the Indiana Jones character in the movies... Raiders of the Lost Ark, etc.

WARNING: I lost an entire saturday afternoon reading his pages and links


[edit on 25-5-2009 by seataka]

[edit on 25-5-2009 by seataka]

[edit on 25-5-2009 by seataka]

[edit on 25-5-2009 by seataka]

Well, whatever the ha'A'aron was ('ark', 'chest') it seems to have emitted some kind of orgone energy which affected those standing around it.

This chest box --made of some kind of Acacia wood covered with gold plates, with a solid and very heavy gold lid called a Kippurah, lit i.e. a 'Forgiveness' Seat ('mercy seat') where the high Priest had to spill certain blood sacrifices on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) which was coverd by 2 winged pagan idols called 'Cherubim' (lit. 'shooting swords')---seems to have disappeared during the reign of the Judaen clan chief Mannasseh son of Hezekiah around BC 685, who eventually exiled the Yahwistic Priestly families and outlawed the worship of YHWH the clan god of 'Yisro'el'. Presumably, Mr Manasseh wanted to melt down the solid gold lid and make coins or bars from it, to be used for currency during his financial crises and in preparation of his war against Assyria and other neighbours.

Apparently, some Yahwistic priestly loyalists scurried the sacred box to safety across to Egypt and then down to Elephantine Island until around AD 380 --there is a smaller replica of the Solomonic Temple built on Elephantine complete with a Qadosh Qadoshim (holy of holies inner shrine) and also on the Island some some remnants of some ancient Ephodim (fortunetelling linen garments with metal underpinning worn over the chest) were also recently recovered in the area, along with Inscriptions from around 820BC e.g. 'This is Sacred to Yahweh and his Asherah', i.e. the wife of the Israelite clan god.

We know from hundreds of surviving tablets and inscriptions that the ancient 'Israelites' (or the tribal amphyctionies that went later by that name) before the Exile into Babylon (BC 5487) commonly worshipped Yahweh and many, many other gods & goddesses side by side fairly widely until the strict 480BC Yahweh-Only' reforms of Ezra the Scribe outlawed syncretism and re-issued the injunction found in Deut chapter 6 placed into the mouth of Moses:

"Yahweh is our clan god, Yahweh alone' i.e. no other clan gods but Yahweh (Heb. "YHWH elohenu, YHWH echad" often mis-translated into American English as 'The LORD is our god, The LORD is one...') and began the process the eventual compilation of the Torah versions (4 of them now exist thanks to the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Samaritan Pentatech and Origen's Hexapla !) as we read it today.

The Ethopian Christian priests in the town of Axum in what used to be called Abyssinia (now Ethiopia) claim to have at least one Ha'A'aron in their possession at the Monastery Church of Our Lady Mary of Zion (rebuilt around the year 1640 CE) whose Guardian priests almost without exception tend to get cataracts of the eyes within a few years of being in its presence. One celibate Guardian of the haA'aron said, "the relic is a terrible thing to behold !...' It is commonly draped by heavy woven cloth material to keep it clean and away from what they call 'impious eyes'

These Ethiopian Guardians claim it to be very old, and possibly one that once was housed in the temple of Solomon on Mt Moriah, but it could be a copy, since it is possible that there existed several of these items in antiquity). Ethiopian churches commonly each have a tablet which they call 'arks' housed near their altars--possibly there were dozens of 'Arks' that were made since prior to the Exile (BCE 587), there were several dozen cult shrines dedicated to YHWH, Asherah, Ba'al, Molek, El-Elyon, El-Shaddai, Chemosh, Amon, Milkom etal. all worshipped for centuries after King David in the 'high places' of Eretz Yisro'el (both in the northern cult centers such as Dan, Shechem, Shiloah, Mamre, Mizpach, Beer-Shebaq, Gilgal ('Stone Circle'), Luz-Bethel, Carnaim, Megiddo, etc. all of which may have had Ark-like boxes of their own, who knows !