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POLITICS: FDA Stops Bus Full of Seniors

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posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
"...It's called a little thing called "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness". If you can't get reasonable access to health care then the government is taking away your rights.


I can't find anything in the U.S. Constitution where government is obligated to provide access to healthcare, reasonable or not. The "Life, Liberty and Persuit.." part only pertains to your right to Life, Liberty and the Persuit of happiness... not the government's obligation to provide those things. That's your job.

It seems that some have the attitude that just because they exist, they are owed a job, owed healthcare, owed housing, etc.. Those people are usually called "socialists".

When you are born, the only people that owe you anything are your mom and dad (or your mom and mom or dad and dad.. whichever the case may be).




posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 12:43 AM
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For your information those on Medicare do pay for it, an amount come out of their checks each month to pay for it. Karma is a mean old witch and she does exact a price higher than you think. Life can turn on a dime and one day you might be the one who needs compassion and help and it will be someone much like yourself with the same attitude that you will be left to get it from, good luck on that one!



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by goose
For your information those on Medicare do pay for it, an amount come out of their checks each month to pay for it.

True. But my point needs no correction since as I stated, Medicare is not in the Constitution.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by parrhesia
Universal healthcare is all good when it's something minor. But when it's something bigger, major sugery, terminal illnesses, etc., then the best bet is to go South because you'll end up waiting and waiting.


Reaalllyyyy? I had never researched it; but I'd never heard any complaints against the Canadian medical system. How well do doctors do up there earnings-wise?



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 03:19 PM
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I can't wait to see the future. When all the baby boomers are ill and need medical attention, we'll see whose laughing. For all those in the U.S. who don't think government sponsored health care is needed. Wait and see when your parents or relatives need major healthcare. If they can't afford it and you can't afford it, we'll see how happy you are then when they are dropping like flies.

If you can stomach people suffering because they can't get adequate healthcare, they you're a sick mofo'. Maybe the U.S. should consider something else than defense spending for the people. But that would make too much sense. All the money the U.S. wastes on military spending could better be spent improving schools, working conditions, etc.

However, your government likes to pump fear into the population so it can do what it wants in terms of foreign policy. The war was started by the U.S. 50 years ago and now the other teams have shown up to play.

So who's fault is it?........................



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by titian

Originally posted by parrhesia
Universal healthcare is all good when it's something minor. But when it's something bigger, major sugery, terminal illnesses, etc., then the best bet is to go South because you'll end up waiting and waiting.


Reaalllyyyy? I had never researched it; but I'd never heard any complaints against the Canadian medical system. How well do doctors do up there earnings-wise?



In Ontario, the most a GP can bill the province is $300.000 cd per year. Out of that all office and staff expenses must be paid.

A decent living but nothing compared to the US which is where our docs are migrating to.

BTW- there are TONS of complaints about the system up here. the main one being the wait for treatment and the fact that it is illegal to pay for private services to jump the queue



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
Moose103, you should wake up. It's called a little thing called "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness". If you can't get reasonable access to health care then the government is taking away your rights.

That's what the government is there for, it's to protect the citizens, not allow huge corporations to make a profit no matter what the cost.


That's what it SHOULD be there for. But unfortunately you and I are just the wage-slaves to these huge corporations. Numbers, and nothing more. No wonder no one has any loyalty to the workplace anymore.

Originally posted by Outland


It seems that some have the attitude that just because they exist, they are owed a job, owed healthcare, owed housing, etc.. Those people are usually called "socialists".



You can't reasonably expect people to pay for the cost of living and not provide for them jobs and a place to live. Sorry, but these are necessities of LIFE.

I honestly can't understand the mindset of you conservative types. You all act like things like housing and food and medical care are luxuries that us ungrateful working wage slaves should be denied simply because we can't afford them. Hey, wake up..the only reason everybody doesn't have them is because the corporations are legally allowed to practice pure, unadulterated, unrestrained greed.

ANYBODY who works full-time, or close enough, should be able to keep his family fed, have a roof over his head, and yes, medical care too ! (Getting pretty generous with the 'luxuries', aren't I ?)


Originally posted by goose
Karma is a mean old witch and she does exact a price higher than you think. Life can turn on a dime and one day you might be the one who needs compassion and help and it will be someone much like yourself with the same attitude that you will be left to get it from, good luck on that one!


Um...is this the same Goose who before was saying that people who couldn't afford medical care just had to suffer quietly because of it ? How in the world can you use the words compassion and Karma in any post on this issue if what you said in your first post is true ?

Speaking of Karma, I'm not sure you know much about it. Karma only bites those who purposely hurt other human beings...let's see, what might one expect the karmic price to be on a nations multi-rich small group of people who continue to deny health care to the working poor and force people to live in pain because they can't afford the proper medicines ?



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by KayEm
"You can't reasonably expect people to pay for the cost of living and not provide for them jobs and a place to live. Sorry, but these are necessities of LIFE."

They may be necessities, but they aren't entitlements and as well, shouldn't be.

We can exist in a system where one can work towards better goals and better rewards, or live in a socialist system where some earnings are capped and forfeit some of those earnings to pay ever increasing taxes to the government for those who don't want to work as hard (I'm not including the unfortunate who can't work due to impediments).

I'll choose the former over the latter. I don't find it fair that I should make up the difference in someone's life because they chose a wrong life path or figured that dropping out of school would net them a successful career in fast food.

It may seem that life is unfair in this respect, but getting better rewards for making better investments in your life goals certainly is fair.

-And-


Originally posted by KayEm
"..what might one expect the karmic price to be on a nations multi-rich small group of people who continue to deny health care to the working poor and force people to live in pain because they can't afford the proper medicines.."

Who is denying health care to the working poor? By law, hospitals here (I'm assuming that you're not) can not refuse treatment based on your income since many get some funding from government.

I presume that "multi-rich small group of people" meant the drug companies. If so, drug companies are businesses like any other and are entitled to make a profit. They do not exist for the purpose of creating jobs or offering charity. If their profits and structure were heavily restricted by the government, they would essentially be a state-run business which is counter productive to our basis of capitalism. State-run businesses wreak of socialism and socialism is not what the framers of the U.S. Constitution had in mind (and for good reason since socialism was tried in early colonialism with dismal results). In fact, parts of the Constitution are structured to avert socialism and worse ideals, but that's a thread for another day.

As well, this micro debate is off thread, so I will stop here. (my apologies to ATSNN)


[Edited on 28-4-2004 by Outland]



posted on Apr, 30 2004 @ 04:10 PM
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I love all the comparisons to Canada, that we are a totally socialist country leaning towards fascism. The truth of the matter is, Canadians actually control our government(not the other way around). The government reacts to the demands of the people, it doesn't label you as "un-patriotic" and then try to ruin your life. We live in a true democracy where we have the right to speak against our government and demand action. We have our faults also, no system is perfect.

We choose healthcare as our major focus for government spending, not defense. We don't need a huge defense force because our foreign policy doesn't attract negative feelings. We are viewed as a peace keeping nation ready to defend our allies when needed. A lot of Canadian blood was spilled to save Europe twice.

So what is the real function of government?

Do you elect them and then forget about your country until next election? Or do you keep on them and make sure they are doing what the people want.

And to all those that are critical of the Canadian system. Who has better quality of life than us. No violent crime, etc, etc, etc.

Canada rocks and the rest of you could learn a thing or two from Canada



posted on May, 1 2004 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by Outland
They may be necessities, but they aren't entitlements and as well, shouldn't be.


Necessities of life should ALWAYS be considered birthrights.


We can exist in a system where one can work towards better goals and better rewards, or live in a socialist system where some earnings are capped and forfeit some of those earnings to pay ever increasing taxes to the government for those who don't want to work as hard (I'm not including the unfortunate who can't work due to impediments).


Are you telling me we aren't taxed to death right now ? Ahemmm..I am one of these working poor you repugnant types love to kick while we're down. I just had 60 dollars taken off my last paycheck that I could maybe have gone and had a doctor visit (partially paid of course) with if I'd needed it. But it was stolen from me by the gov'ment. Siggghhh..just can't get around the fact that I'm a paid employee of the gov'ment. Which makes me think...hmmm..if the working poor are paid employees of the gov'ment, shouldn't we be entitled to medical care and medication like everybody ELSE ?


I'll choose the former over the latter. I don't find it fair that I should make up the difference in someone's life because they chose a wrong life path or figured that dropping out of school would net them a successful career in fast food.


No matter what the job, anybody who works should never be denied health care. I have worked in fast food. I still do (and no, I'm not ashamed to admit it, it's honest work and I work my ass off) and I can tell you that fast food/restaurant workers are some of the hardest workers out there. On top of the psychological batterings we suffer on a daily basis from customers (most of which are people who think as you do I suspect) why should those who are among the hardest working suffer without medical care and medication that we might need ? And please don't give me that standard "if you aren't happy with your job...." BS. What would people like you do if we ALL quit and there were no fast food/restaurants left open to serve you and your cubicle buddies ? Somebody has to do it, yes ? Well, then I suggest that because of that very fact, that we are treated a little more fairly on the food chain. There would be no fast food restaurants if there were no fast food/restaurant workers. Those of you who believe as Outland does, I suggest thinking about that little mostly ignored fact.



Who is denying health care to the working poor? By law, hospitals here (I'm assuming that you're not) can not refuse treatment based on your income since many get some funding from government.



This is the standard pre-programmed answer the repugnants always give and I'm sure you already know the answer but refuse to acknowledge it but I'll say it again anyway, Yes, we can go to the emergency room, when the pain is at it's absolute worst, and be charged over 300.00 dollars for the convenience, when it would have been simpler (not to mention healthier) if we'd been allowed to see a private doctor in the FIRST place for preventative care.

Yes. I'm sorry for going OT as well, but my original opinion still stands. That is that Pharmaceutical (sp?) companies are undeniably excessively greedy and harassing these seniors is inexcusable IMO. They had EVERY right to go to the 'competition' and purchase their medications.

[Edited on 1-5-2004 by KayEm]



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