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POLITICS: FDA Stops Bus Full of Seniors

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posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 09:53 AM
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A facet of the military industrial complex, where a government policing action is in direct support of corporate interests? Or is it fascism?
A senior Food and Drug Administration official said Wednesday that it was unfortunate his agency stopped and inspected a busload of seniors returning from a medicine-buying trip to Canada.
 

CBS News

The bus-stopping incident occurred last October but wasn't made public until Wednesday, when Sen. Mark Dayton, D-Minn., wrote to the FDA to complain about it. Dayton, a millionaire, donates his entire Senate salary to pay for the bus trips from Minnesota, allowing seniors to take advantage of the much lower drug prices in Canada.
"Is it the beginning of a new practice of harassment and intimidation against elderly citizens who are traveling themselves to Canada to make their prescription drug purchases?" he asked.


The argument being offered up by the Pharma industry is that "The FDA says it cannot guarantee the safety of medications purchased in Canada".
If it's the same exact product made by the same exact company who has passed the FDA bar with it's ability to sell it in the US......where does the quality level being suspect come from?
Much like the Supreme Court citing the 14th Amendment as it's sole vetting of stopping the 2000 election recount, this reason is also without merit.


[Edited on 23-4-2004 by Banshee]




posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 10:06 AM
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You can bet the drug industry lobby is pushing hard for any way they can find to continue to rip off seniors.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 11:17 AM
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Canada is a fine country and IMO has a far better healthcare system than the U.S. It all comes down to the money the drug companies dont want to lose.

I think the FDA main defense against this issue is the fact that drugs can be imported from other countries to Canada to be sold there that dont require the strict import regulations that the FDA requires of drugs being imported to the U.S. for sell here by American drug companies. The FDA seems to not have enough faith in our neighbors to the north ability to check the drugs coming into Canada for quality based on the fact that Canada policy is vague in this matter. They site incidents where drugs have been imported to Canada and sold there that did not contain what was claimed by the label. This has happened very rarely and the problems were later caught. This was brought to my attention by a T.V. program, I don't remember if it was Dateline or 60 Minutes, maybe 20/20. They were reporting on the FDA reasoning behind not wanting State Government and Seniors to by drugs from Canada.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 11:20 AM
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rich seniors are ticked off and are going to sue the FDA and run them into the ground. Wait until they get on the horn to the representatives and the FDA officials are getting fired.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by TexasConspiracyNut
I think the FDA main defense against this issue is the fact that drugs can be imported from other countries to Canada to be sold there that dont require the strict import regulations that the FDA requires of drugs being imported to the U.S. for sell here by American drug companies. The FDA seems to not have enough faith in our neighbors to the north ability to check the drugs coming into Canada for quality based on the fact that Canada policy is vague in this matter. They site incidents where drugs have been imported to Canada and sold there that did not contain what was claimed by the label. This has happened very rarely and the problems were later caught. This was brought to my attention by a T.V. program, I don't remember if it was Dateline or 60 Minutes, maybe 20/20. They were reporting on the FDA reasoning behind not wanting State Government and Seniors to by drugs from Canada.


You don't necessarily believe what they say though, do you ? I know I don't.

My opinion is that if corporations can "outsource", then civillians should be able to as well. Don't like it ? Then quit charging so #ing much for the same exact medications that when labeled "for animals only" are three times as cheap.

Maybe if seniors didn't have to decide between the drugs they needed and the little trivialities such as, I don't know, let's go with FOOD...then maybe they wouldn't be feeling the need to haul their asses up to Canada for medicine at affordable prices.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 11:35 AM
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They say they can't guarantee the safety of Canadian drugs... that implies they can guarantee the safety of their own.

They have other things they should be worrying about.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 11:44 AM
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Several thoughts....

If the only matter really was that the FDA couldn't guarantee the safety of the drugs from Canada, then why not have those people who purchase them sign a waiver? The only possible answer is greed.

How can the FDA guarantee any drugs sold anywhere? There have been osccasions in the U.S. where cyanide was found in over the counter products that originated at the plant where they were packaged by a disgruntled employee. Other incidents happened where the real contents were replaced with cheap ineffective immitations. The point here is that the FDA has little real control over what actually reaches the consumer. FDA "control" is a lame excuse at best.

Marijuana seems to flow easily into the U.S. from Canada, but it seems that unauthorized prescription meds are a bigger priority? Those no-good hooligan senior citizen drug smugglers!

How come no one seems to pay much attention to the same thing going on at the Mexican border?

What the fark is the FDA doing at the border anyway? What are Border Patrol and Customs agents for?

TexasConspiracyNut said: "Canada.....has a far better healthcare system than the U.S."
And that's why their taxes are higher (nothing is free), Canadians cross the border for medical treatment and Canadian medical professionals try to come here for work.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 11:46 AM
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Money, Money, Money. Billions and Billions. A massive drug lobby in congress. You scratch my back I'll scratch yours. Ever been to your state capitol and check out the way they get stuff done. They say give me a grand for my time and we'll talk. Money talks and BS walks. What a pig sty.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 11:47 AM
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" And that's why their taxes are higher (nothing is free), Canadians cross the border for medical treatment and Canadian medical professionals try to come here for work."

You're right about that.
Universal healthcare is all good when it's something minor. But when it's something bigger, major sugery, terminal illnesses, etc., then the best bet is to go South because you'll end up waiting and waiting.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 11:58 AM
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U.S. taxes:

Federal Income Tax
Social Security Tax
Medicare and Medicade
State Tax in some states
Sales Tax 8.25% here
County Tax
School district Tax
Local City Tax
Water and Sewer Tax
Cell Phone Tax
Tire Taxes
Gas Tax
Sin Tax on beer and cigarettes
Many others.
If you add up all the taxes you pay it might make you wonder which country really does pay less.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by TexasConspiracyNut
If you add up all the taxes you pay it might make you wonder which country really does pay less.


Sadly, you are likely correct. In coversations with some highly taxed Aussie friends, I figure that we likely pay more when you add it all up. Let's not forget property taxes and here, an city vehicle sticker tax. I'm expecting a tax tax anytime soon.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 04:47 PM
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It's the same old story, the all mighty dollar is the only thing that matters. It's sad that profit margins are more important than the people who keep these companies in business.

Myself, I live in Canada. And yes we are heavily taxed. However, it's not only health care that creates those high taxes(although it's a major expense). We have a small population(1/5 the U.S.) and yet we support an infrastructure system similar to yours(U.S.). Canada has the second largest land mass in the world.

The negative impact of U.S. citizens coming to Canada to buy our drugs is that it drives up the costs to our own health care system. Thus higher taxes.

I think it's a great service our country provides for us. Healthcare is going to be the most critical infrastructure in the future. Our doctors do go to the states to work and that's because they want the bigger paychecks.

I have 5 friends all in the process of becoming doctors and they would never work in the states because they feel that everyone should have access to free healthcare(free being a relative term). Most of them find the U.S. system appauling. Better have good credit or you won't get treated. Another instance of big business running the show.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 07:29 PM
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Well, they can come to my house and get me if they want...but I just recently started buying my mother's meds online for her out of Canada. On a 3 month's supply of 4 medicines we saved $163.

They can kiss my ass in a truss on a buss, with a fox in a box, they can kiss my ass laying flat in the grass.



[Edited on 4-23-2004 by Valhall]



posted on Apr, 25 2004 @ 10:37 PM
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It is so funny to hear people whine about healthcare costs.

Why does anyone deserve free healthcare?
Why should anyone else pay for someone elses healthcare?
If you don't want to pay for the drugs, then don't take them!
No one is forcing you to take 8 Vicodin a day, 2 Ambien to sleep. In pain Mrs. Senior? Take some Motrin instead of Celebrex and save $150.


And who is this "big business" getting rich?
The drug makers are the ones making a killing here.

And the problem with that is BUSINESS CAN CHARGE WHATEVER THEY WANT FOR THEIR PRODUCT.

You babies cry that drugs are too expensive. Yet if you came up with some super gizmo to sell, you would do the same thing.

YOU WOULD SELL IT AND MAKE A PROFIT!
You bad, bad person. A profit! Oh no!

You people need to grow up, become self-supporting and stop expecting everyone else to pay for your existance.



posted on Apr, 26 2004 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by moose103
It is so funny to hear people whine about healthcare costs.

Why does anyone deserve free healthcare?
Why should anyone else pay for someone elses healthcare?
If you don't want to pay for the drugs, then don't take them!
No one is forcing you to take 8 Vicodin a day, 2 Ambien to sleep. In pain Mrs. Senior? Take some Motrin instead of Celebrex and save $150.


And who is this "big business" getting rich?
The drug makers are the ones making a killing here.

And the problem with that is BUSINESS CAN CHARGE WHATEVER THEY WANT FOR THEIR PRODUCT.

You babies cry that drugs are too expensive. Yet if you came up with some super gizmo to sell, you would do the same thing.

YOU WOULD SELL IT AND MAKE A PROFIT!
You bad, bad person. A profit! Oh no!

You people need to grow up, become self-supporting and stop expecting everyone else to pay for your existance.



Before I reply to this most offensive quote, I need to say to Valhall...You GO grrl !!!!
I LIKE your 'tude.

Now...to the more unpleasant business, that is trying to enlighten a preprogrammed sheep.

Moose, I will answer your questions one by one but I warn you, you MAY not like the answers.

Why does anyone deserve free healthcare?

Uhhhh...maybe because it's the humane and compassionate way to be. Maybe you can sleep nights knowing full well that people are out there suffering but I can NOT. Example, as we speak, my boss, a youngish girl who works her ASS off by the way and isn't asking for freebies (just in case you aren't clear, Insensitive One..that means she WORKS), suffers daily from intense dental pain. Yet, she continues to work because she needs the money and she doesn't want to let the rest of us down as manager. To make a long story short, she can't get the dental care she needs because she doesn't have 300 plus dollars to spare. Nice compassionate country we live in, eh ?

Why should anyone else pay for someone elses healthcare?

Because it behooves us all to remember that next time it could be us. And because there's such a thing as scruples and compassion and MOST importantly, we have to decide what our priorities are. IE. guns/weapons/wars or Medical care for all. That. Simple.

you don't want to pay for the drugs, then don't take them!

Talk about insensitive and inhuman. Ok...those of us who can't pay for the medication we need for the much needed relief of pain will simply suffer quietly and therefore cause YOU unneeded inconvenience and irritation. IE. The next time I'm in serious pain from...let's say, whatever, I promise that if you or any of your preprogrammed ilk come into the place where I work, I will give you not only a colossal frown in greeting but promise to # with the sandwich you order, dude.

You expect business as usual out of the working poor in general ? Dream on. Grow a little compassion and we'll see.

The only thing I can add to this inhumane question is a question of my own. What if people ultimately have to choose between feeling no pain or eating ? What's your answer there, Mr. Warmth ?

No one is forcing you to take 8 Vicodin a day, 2 Ambien to sleep. In pain Mrs. Senior? Take some Motrin instead of Celebrex and save $150.

So what you're saying is that only the rich deserve to live pain free ? That is, only the poor should spend their entire lives working their fingers to the bone, putting up with the general publics bull#, losing their self-respect (that's not ME, by the way...KayEm would kick your sanctimonius ass should you walk into HER place of business), and THEN, when they need it the most, pain relief (mostly caused by people like YOU), it's denied them simply because they don't have the money for it ???


YOU WOULD SELL IT AND MAKE A PROFIT!
You bad, bad person. A profit! Oh no!


You're goddamn right it's bad. There's a difference between profit needed to stay in business and create new, much needed drugs (such as cures for Cancer) and out-and-out greediness.

You people need to grow up, become self-supporting and stop expecting everyone else to pay for your existance.

And inhumane people such as yourself need to grow a little compassion for those less fortunate then you.

Really, I shouldn't spend so much emotion and energy fighting a repugnant such as yourself. Karma will indeed end up biting you in the ass for your insensitivity at some point anyway.


Btw, Mr. Moose, I was asked to edit some of the things I said to you for reasons of civility on the boards, in return I would ask you to rephrase some of the things you have said out of respect for those who may not be filthy rich and IE able to afford the kinds of prices your wonderful pharmaceutical companies charge.













[Edited on 26-4-2004 by KayEm]

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by KayEm]



posted on Apr, 26 2004 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by moose103
It is so funny to hear people whine about healthcare costs.

Why does anyone deserve free healthcare?


Because they are human beings.
Because we no longer live in the Middle Ages.
Because we are supposedly more advanced.
Because we are supposedly more compassionate.
(Actually, I really find the title 'Compassionate Conservative to be somewhat of an oxymoron).

And yes, I don't mind paying more in taxes if it means I get healthcare when I need it. And before anyone attacks the UK NHS, they were there for me three years ago and I will back them to the hilt. The medical staff do sterling work, while all the time being backstabbed by their managers and Blair's Government.



posted on Apr, 26 2004 @ 04:19 PM
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Verbatim:

"Pfizer is taking steps to safeguard the integrity of the pharmaceutical supply system by ensuring that its medicines are supplied only through authorized channels that meet all regulatory requirements. The company is taking these steps to help protect the safety of patients and ensure an adequate and ongoing supply of Pfizer products.

The only way to ensure patient safety is to control the products at every stage from manufacturer to patient. This is done very well in both Canada and the U.S. via each countrys respective system of national regulation (FDA and Health Canada), tightly controlled supply chains and professional community pharmacies.

Unauthorized exporting and illegal importing of medicines removes these products from the protection of any national system, as Health Canada has noted recently in declaring that it cannot guarantee the quality and safety of products exported from Canada. Similarly, the FDA has advised that it cannot assure the safety of imported medicines where the source of the medicines is unknown and where it is not possible to determine if good manufacturing practices have been followed.

There is growing evidence that the pharmaceutical supply chain is being compromised by counterfeit medicines. Counterfeiting poses a very real and immediate threat to patients, making it a priority to control distribution channels for prescription medicines.
Internet pharmacies are a channel for this illegal activity and many of them are registered to fictitious names and addresses in countries throughout the world. The products they sell often come from countries with inadequate regulatory systems. With Pfizer products alone, there have been important seizures by law enforcement officers in recent months of counterfeit products such as Lipitor in the U.S. and Viagra in Canada.

The FDA recently reported that it has seen its counterfeit drug investigations increase to more than 20 per year since 2000, after averaging only about 5 per year through the late 1990s.
Pfizer is working closely with the FDA and other law enforcement agencies to determine the source of the counterfeits and to ensure that patients are protected against the dangers of counterfeit products.

Pfizer recognizes that access to affordable medicines is a critical issue to U.S. consumers and we are actively supporting efforts in Congress to ensure passage of a prescription drug benefit under Medicare. Pfizer has several U.S. programs in place to make its medicines available free of charge or at low cost to eligible patients. Through these programs, Pfizer provides more than $350 million per year in free or reduced price medicines."



posted on Apr, 26 2004 @ 05:48 PM
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the REASON why meds are so much cheaper in Canada is that prices drug companies charge are government mandated not market dictated.

We can't have it both ways in Canada (though we sure as hell try) If prices are to remain artificially low, we can't turn around and resell at a profit.



posted on Apr, 26 2004 @ 07:42 PM
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Moose103, you should wake up. It's called a little thing called "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness". If you can't get reasonable access to health care then the government is taking away your rights.

That's what the government is there for, it's to protect the citizens, not allow huge corporations to make a profit no matter what the cost.



posted on Apr, 26 2004 @ 07:49 PM
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I'm just waiting for someone in the FDA to get more aggressive on this under the guise of national security. Taking America by storm - one pill at a time.



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