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Saudi Court Approves Pedophilia

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posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by chise61
As it stands right now, if the man has honored his pledge and refrained from touching her in a sexual way, it is not pedophilia, just slavery. However once she has her first period he will then be allowed to have sex with her, if she reaches puberty at, let's say ten, then it will be pedophilia.


No that is not how it stands. The court said when she reaches puberty she can petition the court for an annullment at that time. It is HER choice. She is not a slave.

Muslim marriages can be done on paper, and I believe the couple does not even have to meet. It is quite believable that an eight year would not realize she was married, there may not have been any ceremony at all. There have been other cases where adult brides and even grooms signed marriage contracts without realizing what it was, they thought it was for something else.

The bride is supposed to give her consent, Sharia law says if the father marries off his daughter, and the daughter does not consent it will be anulled.

[edit on 19-4-2009 by Sonya610]




posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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This doesn't have anything to do with pedophilia. This is a form of slavery, these guys just want more women to do all the work around the house so they can sit and do nothing. All you so called moral folk going on about mutilating these people and calling them sick f**** don't even see the irony in that, you need as much mental help as they do.



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by Ownification

Well it is not of any importance that those laws have been in place for 1400 years, we are talking about the present time line. Those laws have been there for 1400 years which doesn't give America the right to allow it to stay for another 1400 years. The point is that there is a debate going on amongst Muslims related to a whole variety of issues but American interests prevents these issues to come to light.



It is of importance that these laws have been in place for 1400 years, as it shows that America had nothing to do with the implementation of these laws since America was nonexistent 1400 years ago. Those laws were implemented by the Muslim people and are kept in place by the Muslim people. Talking about present time, America is not keeping these laws in place the The government and the Muslim people are.

You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth and attempting to blame others for what the Muslims accepted, implemented an continue to accept, if you can not honestly respond than we may as well not discuss this any longer as i am trying to understand from a person that will tell the truth, not lay blame at the feet of others.




How can the people change anything when the leaders won't allow it to? Simple question with mind blowing results. If you want them to call for a revolution, well American soldiers which are present in their soil won't allow it.



I can agree that the leaders will not allow the changes, we are going through unrest in our own country right now. However if the Muslim people really had such problems with these laws for so long then why wait until American soldiers are on thier soil to attempt to voice them ? Or are the American soldiers just a convient excuse to avoid an attempt at change ? Again you seem to place blame only at the feet of others and none at the feet at your own people.



So the point is that the Saudis should blame themselves for the laws which are implemented in that country? I'm assuming that you are making a comparison between the wrong doings of America and the wrong doings of Saudi, where both people should blame themselves for not doing enough. The difference I suspect is that American people are alluded to make such ignorant statements as: "we are free to chose who we elect therefore we are more free and modern".


No the point is that the Saudi government is to blame for the laws that are implemented in that country, but ultimately the people must look to themselves for allowing an unjust government to remain in place. It is no different for Americans, or any other people, they ultimately are the only ones that can bring about change.





Actually both men and women don't have any rights to voice their opinions. What you are talking about is movies, what I'm talking about is first hand experience(being raised in Afghanistan). And no men don't enjoy their dominance, because they are raised by women. This idea which is propagated by Western media is absurd.



If what you say is true, then can you please help me to understand why so many men still adhere to these laws even when they move countries where they are allowed freedom from these laws ? And why so many Muslims demand for their Muslim laws to be implemented in the free countries that they move to ?




Depends on what extreme means? I never understood the concept of extreme portrayed by the Western media.



The more extreme would be for example the laws that say a woman can be stoned to death if she is seen associating with a male of a different sect, or religion ? A father may take his daughter's life if she refuses a forced marriage, shames the family, etc? Are these Sunni laws, Shi'a laws, or both ?




It is not a law, it is the perception that the prophet of Islam married Aisha at the age of 8 therefore giving some type of a hint on what the minimum age should be for marriage.

The problem is that there are various other sources which claims that the prophet of Islam married Aisha at the age of 18. This is historical references which is more credible than mere quotes which were narrated, and these quotes are rated by the number of narrators. If one narrator, the quote has little credibility, and guess how many narrators for the age of Aisha at the time of marriage? Just one. And that individual had memory problem later in his life which decreases his credibility even more. I will post sources for these claims next time since right now I'm a little busy.



If it is not law, then why is a court allowing it, and upholding it as law ?


He also told me that sodomy is against Muslim law. Is sodomy against Muslim law, and if it is why would there be a law that allows a little girl to be sodomized ?


I am not aware of such a law, if possible please post a source.


I'm unsure if you are speaking of a law against sodomy, or a law that allows sodomy against a female child.



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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Thanks for the link to the Mail article, Sonya610 (I've seen the CNN one).

I agree with Chise61, it does seem strange that the mother does not have legal guardianship but the child lives with her.

So much rests upon this poor child! Not least, family honour. If she seeks annulment, the dowry will have to be repaid.

Whatever the motivations of the 'husband', this child has been used as a commodity. Had he not opposed the mother's petition, the case would not have gone to court and we would not now be aware of it. What worries me is two-fold; how many other children used as commodities and don't have mothers courageous enough to fight for them, continue to be sold into slavery by their 'fathers'? and the explicit consent given in the holy books for men to indecently assault small children, so long as the child is legally sold into marriage to them.



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


If her father is allowed to use her to pay off his debt she is then seen as his property with monetary value and yes this does make her a slave.

Can you show documented proof that this case is being handled under Sharia law, that Sharia law guarantees her an anullment, and that in this particular case that this little girl is absolutely guaranteed to be granted an anullment, and be granted that anullment before he forces himself on this child ?



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by teapot

So much rests upon this poor child! Not least, family honour. If she seeks annulment, the dowry will have to be repaid.



Good observation


I had not even thought of the implications of her bringing dishonor to her father by seeking an anullment. You are right the aspect of family honor may in fact prevent this little girl from seeking an anullment. If she does seek the anullment and it is granted the father may indeed have to repay the debt and the and may punish her because of it.



posted on Apr, 19 2009 @ 10:47 PM
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Saudi Arabian King Fahd Bin Abdul-Aziz, Jeddeh 1993:

"I summon my blue-eyed slaves anytime it pleases me. I command the Americans to send me their bravest soldiers to die for me. Anytime I clap my hands a stupid genie called the American ambassador appears to do my bidding. When the Americans die in my service their bodies are frozen in metal boxes by the US Embassy and American airplanes carry them away, as if they never existed. Truly, America is my favorite slave."

www.sourcewatch.org...:Arabism

[note: HTML cuts off the page link Google the quote and sourcewatch]




Saudi Arabia is unusual in the modern age. The government is a locked in traditional royalty with a direct lineage aristocracy. The Fahd family not only control legislation and foreign policy, but as virtual partners with the Wahhabist extremist sect who assisted in their rise, they fully mandate education, religion, and law throughout the kingdom.

Dictated from the top down, there is an unashamed overt disregard for human rights, equality for women, respect for other faiths, races, and origins, even those with variant Muslim beliefs such as Shiites, Kurds, Bahai.

Only in 1961, under severe pressure, they made slavery illegal in the kingdom, technically. But there remains an attitude that it is still part of the natural way of life as it was in the distant past.

The distribution of wealth does not approach equitable. Poverty and dependence on the largesse of the ruling class is still the lot of millions even in this underpopulated country with the largest natural resource wealth.

All this together reinforces a hierarchical belief system wherein only the natural aristocrats and select associates can claim any rights to personal freedom and protection from abuse.

As seen in the quote above, essentially all human interactions, male and female, foreign and national, Sunni Muslim and Christian, wealthy and poor, reduce to a master and slave relationship.


Mike


[edit on 20-4-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by chise61

Originally posted by teapot

So much rests upon this poor child! Not least, family honour. If she seeks annulment, the dowry will have to be repaid.



Good observation


I had not even thought of the implications of her bringing dishonor to her father by seeking an anullment. You are right the aspect of family honor may in fact prevent this little girl from seeking an anullment. If she does seek the anullment and it is granted the father may indeed have to repay the debt and the and may punish her because of it.


Yes. Plus, the punishment may be a brutal killing at the hands of her father. Also, women are sometimes executed for seeking divorce.



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by chise61Can you show documented proof that this case is being handled under Sharia law, that Sharia law guarantees her an anullment, and that in this particular case that this little girl is absolutely guaranteed to be granted an anullment, and be granted that anullment before he forces himself on this child ?


Uhhh...documented proof? Other than a few articles that clearly state that the Judged order that the girl be allowed to seek an annullment when she reaches puberty?

Can you show documented proof that she will NOT be allowed the rights the judge promised her?



posted on Apr, 20 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


That judge promised her no rights, he merely said that she may PETITION the court for a divorce when she reaches puberty.

As i've stated many times the mans pledge is only in effect until she reaches puberty, once she hits puberty all bets are off and he can force himself on her.

And i haven't read one article that states that this case is being handled under Sharia law, or that Sharia law gaurantees her a divorce, or that it will be granted before that man forces himself on her. Everything that i have read reports that saudi Arabia follows a highly strict puritanical form of Sunni law caled Wahibbisim.

I simply ask that you back up YOUR claim that this matter is being handled under a form of Shari'a law that guarantees that she will in fact be granted a divorce before she is allowed to be raped by this man.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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A well connected US journalist, Herb Mallard, investigated the kidnapping of children for sexual purposes from the US. The results have largely been expunged online, but some of his preliminary material can still be found in his online publication of a few years ago.

Saudi Arabia maintains a legal double standard that makes it possible for men of property and status to override laws and humane practices both in their country and abroad.





"We have found that Washington set up offices to divert complaints from US citizens who have children kidnapped by foreign ex-spouses, especially by Saudi Arabian princes. We have been told by a reliable source at the Justice Department, off the record, that these offices are set up to condition the parents to lower their expectations of ever finding their children, to keep secret the real numbers of complaints and to tell the police to consider all kidnapping as local when in fact we know of US child sex slaves in Saudi Arabia.

Some of the male employees of these offices disillusioning the parents of kidnapped children in such a disreputable fashion are said to make $100,000 or more for "hardship pay". We were told that the number of kidnapped and/or disappeared 12-15 year old girls is almost epidemic but the Justice offices will not divulge any numbers of kidnapped children."

www.statedepartment.com...






Mike



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 01:55 AM
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in reply to the above:




Google Video Link


thats from 15 years ago - and was banned (and still is banned) from US television.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
in reply to the above:


that's from 15 years ago - and was banned (and still is banned) from US television.



Thanks for this. 3 AM her, so not about to watch it all the way through.

Any back story or comments appreciated.

Though oil rich states like the Saudis and UAE spend tens of millions every year to keep their 'dirty little secrets' from the general public, what they have been up to for decades is not exactly secret.

Too painful to elaborate in detail, but shocking is a mild word.

Sexual slavery and perverse activity, particularly with minors, is sanctioned.

The Saudis have bought large blocks of shares in international press services, some of which they now own outright. Books on their banking and sexual abuses have been systematically prevented from publication or distribution with legal suits intimidating publishers with multi-million dollar threats of extended law suits.


Reporting still exists in online newspaper archives from the 90s, like this one:




www.independent.co.uk...

A glance through the archives of the Gulf newspapers is enough to show you what Filipina and Sri Lankan maids suffer at the hands of their Arab employers - quite apart from the judicial lashings so many receive from ''Islamic'' courts.

Beaten, burnt and sexually assaulted, they turn up in their dozens each year at their embassies in Riyadh, Kuwait City and Abu Dhabi to plead for sanctuary from their tormentors and a free passage home. One Arab Gulf state had to charter airliners to take home Indian and Filipina maids after they complained of rape and beatings by their employers.



The problem is beyond anecdotal. It's endemic.


Mike



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 12:57 AM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


Now that is more sick than the Saudi thing.

Sodom & Gomorrah all over again.
A warning for these sick beasts!
www.youtube.com...



[edit on 25-4-2009 by Blue_Jay33]



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 01:21 AM
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I'm sure this ruling has to do with Mohammed himself being a pedophile.

If this false prophet can marry a 6 year old girl why can't his followers?

In addition to his baby bride Mohammed had 10 others, including marrying one of his sons wives.

No wonder why this religion is so perverted?

www.muslimhope.com...

Note: Before anyone takes offense....take a deep breath...then search all the Christian bashing threads on ATS...then decide if you want to be a hypocrite...then proceed.



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 10:56 AM
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yeah hang-about......
But, there are also examples in the Christian "Old testament" of incest. Within some countries it is still considered acceptable for very young individuals of "high-birth", to be granted marriage. One place that comes to mind is India.
Weather this be to some-one of their senior is another manner.
My point is that I would not attempt to have the stand-point of one religion be more righteous th the other etc etc....blah blah blah...
Most are as bad as each other.
We're not talking about football teams here. This # screws peoples lives.(and probably saves a few as well- and thats great).
Please dont say that any-one( and your preferential , religion is the only true one. Most; take anyone of the un-holy trinity for example, have lists of atrocities throughout history that are too numerous to even think about listing!!!
I think that these problems are cultural- not caused from any particular faith



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by chise61
I simply ask that you back up YOUR claim that this matter is being handled under a form of Shari'a law that guarantees that she will in fact be granted a divorce before she is allowed to be raped by this man.


Saudi Arabia enforces one of the STRICTEST forms of Sharia Law. This girl does not even know she is married, when she reaches puberty her mother will know LONG before the husband does. I doubt if this kid is emailing her husband on a daily basis and I doubt if she will tell him when she starts to menstruate.

You ask questions, you accuse, you provide NO sources. Talking to you sort of goes against the "deny ignorance" motto as you only yabber and you do NOT back up your position. Very weak.



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Sonya610
Saudi Arabia enforces one of the STRICTEST forms of Sharia Law.


Since it was you that made this claim initially, it is you that needs to show sources, which i have previously asked you to supply, yet you convienently keep avoiding doing so and attempt to lay it at my feet. You keep insisting that this is being handled under Sharia law and that this law guarantees the girl a divorce, so once again where are YOUR sources to back up your claims ?




This girl does not even know she is married, when she reaches puberty her mother will know LONG before the husband does. I doubt if this kid is emailing her husband on a daily basis and I doubt if she will tell him when she starts to menstruate.


This is true if she in fact still lives with the mother. However once she does have her first period the mother will have her petition for divorce, and the court will notify the husband who can then legally come and take his "wife" and do as he pleases. Now since you don't seem to know the difference this is NOT an accusation that he will, just a statement of the possibility that he may.




You ask questions, you accuse, you provide NO sources. Talking to you sort of goes against the "deny ignorance" motto as you only yabber and you do NOT back up your position. Very weak.



I agree you are right i ask questions. To ask questions is to seek knowledge, to seek knowledge is to deny ignorance


You'd have to be a little more specific as to whom i accused of what.

Can't back up things that "may" happen, i never said for sure that she doesn't live with her mother, just that it is unlikely. I never said that she would not be granted a divorce before being raped by her "husband", just that it is a possibility.

I did say that she is a slave and that is self evident, she was traded in lieu of money, by her father (which shows ownership) therefore she has had a monetary value placed on her and is a slave. You say she is not a slave, yet have provided nothing to back up that claim. Do you wish me to embrace ignorance by blindly accepting what you say as the truth


My position is that she has been made a slave, i need no sources to back that posistion, it is obvious.

You have made the claim that this is being handled under a strict form of Sharia law that quarantees her a divorce, yet you have refused to provide sources to back up that claim, so i can only assume the reason is that you have none




Edit for spelling error

[edit on 4/25/2009 by chise61]



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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The law may guarantee the right to divorce. Any stats on what percentage of the arranged marriages result in petition for divorce, or the percentage actually granted by the legal system?

We all know the amounts are miniscule.

And then if that young girl can miraculously afford the costs and the social stigma, what is she at the end? A non-virgin divorcee with low marriageability prospects. Essentially a social pariah.

I think anyone with any intelligence can read between the line seeing how the cards are stacked. It's inhumane barbaric slavery, even if you want to rationalize it on technicalities or call it anything else.


M




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