Captain jumps overboard, SEALs shoot pirates, official says

I'm also having an issue with how people are trying to tie this incident in with Obama, and trying to use this event to try and paint our President as incompetent. A hostage situation for a Captain of the military does not require the Commander in Chief to call the shots! In fact, I'd be more scared of the fact if he did try and take over the situation from the captured Captain's C.O..

Your (ie, everyone) opinions regarding Obama are fine and for you to hold. Just don't bring that kind of thinking into this subject, it has no place in this discussion.

reply to post by greeneyedleo

"stealing their main food supply and crippling any chance of regaining a functioning economy"

There is far more to this issue than meets the eye. I'm not trying to present you an agenda here, but I will present you the facts:

Januna Ali Jama is a spokesman for the pirates and he says the ransom demand is a means of "reacting to the toxic waste that has been continually dumped on the shores of our country for nearly 20 years".

"The Somali coastline has been destroyed, and we believe this money is nothing compared to the devastation that we have seen on the seas." he added.

Allegations of the dumping of toxic waste, as well as illegal fishing, have circulated since the early 1990s.

The tsunami of 2004 literally dumped evidence of such on the beaches of northern Somalia.

The UN Environment Programme (UNEP) reported the tsunami had washed up rusting containers of toxic waste on the shores of Puntland.

Nick Nuttall is a UNEP spokesman and has stated that when the barrels were smashed open by the force of the waves, the containers exposed a "frightening activity" that has been going on for more than decade.

"Somalia has been used as a dumping ground for hazardous waste starting in the early 1990s, and continuing through the civil war there," he said.

"European companies found it to be very cheap to get rid of the waste, costing as little as $2.50 a tonne, where waste disposal costs in Europe are something like $1000 a tonne.

"And the waste is many different kinds. There is uranium radioactive waste. There is lead, and heavy metals like cadmium and mercury. There is also industrial waste, and there are hospital wastes, chemical wastes – you name it."

Since the containers came ashore, hundreds of residents have fallen ill, suffering from mouth and abdominal bleeding, skin infections and other ailments.

"We [the UNEP] had planned to do a proper, in-depth scientific assessment on the magnitude of the problem. But because of the high levels of insecurity onshore and off the Somali coast, we are unable to carry out an accurate assessment of the extent of the problem," he said.

Ould-Abdallah claims the practice still continues. "What is most alarming here is that nuclear waste is being dumped. Radioactive uranium waste that is potentially killing Somalis and completely destroying the ocean," he said.

www.digitaljournal.com...

An Italian Journalist was killed in mysterious circumstances while investigating this story:

Ilaria Alpi (May 24, 1961 — March 20, 1994) was an Italian journalist killed in Mogadishu, Somalia together with her camera operator Miran Hrovatin under mysterious circumstances.

Ilaria Alpi was born in Rome and worked for Italian RAI state television. At the time of the murder, she was following a case of weapon and illegal toxic waste traffic in which she believed also the Italian Army and other institutions were involved.

www.netnomad.com...
en.wikipedia.org...



There is certainly more going here than we are being told.

The roots of the sudden increase in piracy MAY stem from this, in combination with the disastrous situation Somalia was left in after the UN (and the American peace-keeping force) abandoned it in 1993 and allowed the warlords, militias and other groups to ferment and squabble for a decade before uprising again stronger than ever.

[edit on 12/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Ok. I will read that over. Thanks for posting it. I admit, I dont know a lot about the whole issue of pirating. I just take issue with the defense of them.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
I never thought I would see a post defending the pirates, but here it is. Unbeliable.

Can you please provide some links to show that this ship was there to "steal their main food supply and crippling any chance of regaining a functioning economy".

Also provide some links to show that American cargo ships are "stealing their main food supply and crippling any chance of regaining a functioning economy".

Thanks. I am very unaware of this happening.

Hello, greeneyedleo. I'd be more then happy to give you some links to read over. Also, I'm sure you're aware of the mistake by now, but you effectively asked the same question twice. I will treat it as one question for the purpose of this post.

This is an all-encompassing summary of what's going on, written by Johann Hari of the Huffington Post. If you are one of the people who has trouble reading articles from left-leaning publications, I'd like to just say their really is not spin put in this article, just an attempt to paint a picture of the 'other side'

This is another fantastic read, by the Chicago Tribune. This should be enough to get you started, their's plenty of links to read on google, I didn't even have to leave the first page. Google Search: somali pirates protecting their shore

reply to post by greeneyedleo

I never thought I would see a post defending the pirates, but here it is. Unbeliable.

Oh there was never any doubt in my mind what so ever that someone or perhaps many someones would take the side of the pirates,


So why are we off topic?

[edit on 023030p://bSunday2009 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


I wonder if the EU is taking legal actions against the companies that dumped their toxic waste there? I'd place my bets on not, seeing as the EU seems to be more concerned with getting into other countries' business rather than taking care of their own.

[edit on 4/12/09 by Ferris.Bueller.II]

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II

I wonder if the EU is taking legal actions against the companies that dumped their toxic waste there?

The first step to that would be admitting there was a serious, ethical problem here regarding dumping all sorts of crap on Somalian waters illegally and no one is going to touch that with a 10ft pole.

Nevertheless, there are many unseen factors to the madness ensuing in Somalian waters.

The look on the pirate face when he found out his buddy's got turned into swiss cheese would have been priceless.
Notice they don't have a new picture of the little boat they were on, least not yet. Depends on how this went down, IF the Navy had a 50 cal trained on the boat waiting for the right time. Night vision seeing the captain diving over the side, and it was time to shred orange fiberglass.
No mercy...remember Blackhawk down....a little pay back time. These pirates are cowards in the truest form.
Kudos to the Navy

Well alls well that ends well and this did. I also won a bet but I didn't figure any of the pirates would have survived. Now a quick walking of the plank and on to the next issue. Now I need to reach the magic number of

reply to post by merky

No mercy...remember Blackhawk down....a little pay back time. These pirates are cowards in the truest form.

Emotional outpourings aside...

It takes some serious nutsacks to ride up along 50-60ft tankers and freighters that output enough swell to capsize aluminium dinghies, throw a line and climb up along the hull and then proceed to take over the ship.

Secondly, don't stereotype. Operation Gothic Serpent's main enemy in 1993 was Mohammed Farrah Aidid and his militia, most of whom is long dead by now.

The pirates we're facing are a vastly different cadre of people.

[edit on 12/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

This will go one of two ways... The Pirates will no longer target American ships or they will and one or two hostages will be killed to prove a point.

I have no doubt they will continue to take ships where they can unless all nations do what we did.

It is unfortunate those pirates had to be killed but if we didn't do it then they would have take more ships from our people.

I wonder if other nations will continue to pay for their ships when captured?

Chalk one up for Obama on this one. I hope the order given was out of genuine concern for that Captain and American interests and not for some political gain. Time will tell.

Originally posted by Tgautier13
I'm also having an issue with how people are trying to tie this incident in with Obama, and trying to use this event to try and paint our President as incompetent. A hostage situation for a Captain of the military does not require the Commander in Chief to call the shots! In fact, I'd be more scared of the fact if he did try and take over the situation from the captured Captain's C.O..

Your (ie, everyone) opinions regarding Obama are fine and for you to hold. Just don't bring that kind of thinking into this subject, it has no place in this discussion.

I understand what you mean and agree.

I've been seeing a lot of this and it is disgusting to callously use of this Captain as nothing more than a political pawn to score points for the right.

Obama approved force to rescue pirate hostage

WASHINGTON (AP) - Administration officials say President Barack Obama approved the military operation that rescued a U.S. captain held hostage by Somali pirates.

The officials say Obama ordered the Defense Department to use military resources to rescue Richard Phillips from a lifeboat off the Somali coast.

The officials discussed this information on the condition of anonymity because they were not yet authorized to disclose the president's decision-making process.AP NEWS

It goes without saying that a hostage situation can be a complicated problem to deal with. One must contemplate all options rather quickly as well as be fully briefed on the scenario. It isn't something that is always tackled militarily within the first hour.

He also isn't the first president to be put in this situation and in some cases the scenario went beyond four days.

Had he just ordered force prematurely to satisfy those now moaning with disapproval at the length of the four day standoff and without considering all possibilities nor giving our military the proper time to position themselves and the hostage was killed, he would have been blamed for his heavy handedness.

I don't doubt that it would be echoed throughout his entire term. Those sort of behaviors make me wonder if the attacks are coming from those that hate Obama much more than they actually care about the life of hostage.

When the White House approved force and the situation is resolved without the loss of the hostage we are still subjected to complaints from the anti-Obama crew based on the time frame.

Instead of being a lousy partisan opportunist why don't some of you just be happy that the hostage is alive and save the "Obama assault" for another day?

Be an American first.

- Lee

Great news... Just a few more pirates left and then the western nations can continue to steal the natural resources from the seas of somalia and dump toxic waste along the coast whenever they please.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Thanks for posting that information.

I wasn't even going to attempt to present such things and risk being accused of something akin to anti-American sentiment or have it misconstrued into communist propaganda thanks to the eerie resurgent popularity of McCarthyism.

I think this entire situation is regrettable and I am thankful that this man is alive, but if some of you simply buy the media portrait of his captors that seems to be "Yo ho ho, they are pirating for thrills" you are being mislead.

The circumstances surrounding the creation of these pirates are very serious and very real. You would be wise to try and understand it, and our leaders address it because the problem will only continue to grow. Now more than ever.

There are many countries that are/were involved in creating the horrible conditions that engender these sort of pirates that will never be accountable for their crimes and abuses.

The problem isn't as black and white as you may think.

It just seems that way in the Hollywood good guys v.s bad guys drama that the media pushes as "real life".

- Lee

reply to post by Tgautier13


Somehow, I don't think the pirates are heading out to see to hijack a tanker with the Captain leading them into battle with the cry, "Save our shores from pollution, you scurvy dogs!"

They are in it for the money; why else are they holding them for ransom, and not asking for some sort of public forum to air their case and grievences??

Yeah I don't have any problem with this.

If you go around hijacking ships and kidnapping people, you can expect to get shot at.

While the conditions in Somalia are no doubt terrible, that doesn't justify attacking innocent shipping.

Well done by the SEAL's

Originally posted by Tgautier13
reply to post by FredT

 

Pirate animals? Think before you type, or at least do some research. These people are trying to protect their coastal lines from American cargo freighters who are stealing their main food supply and crippling any chance of regaining a functioning economy. Not to mention the European countries dumping their toxic waste in the area, killing the ecosystem there while the West hoards what's left all to ourselves.

I'm not trying to take either side here. Its just hard to support Americans who are actively participating in the exploitation and destruction of a culture and an ecosystem. In fact, I refuse to.

"What I did was to keep me from perishing. I was forced to go a-pirating to live."

Why would you post such tripe? "Trying to LIVE, and protect their coastal lines?" You don't say?(sarcasm) To the tune of $2,000,000. No less!! Wow, I could live nicely off $2,000,000,!

O.K., I see you are from Kansas. Let's say you were working abroad in Europe. You own a car there and are driving to work. You are minding your own business, when all of a sudden you are carjacked!! Only instead of taking the car and leaving you on the curb, they take you hostage. Now you have been held for 2 days! The world is aware!! People are trying to figure out how to save your life and then there is a lone voice screaming 'Stupid American! Coming over here to steal jobs and exploit the British!!'

Guess what buddy? That's not a Brit squawking, that's a flippin
AMERICAN!!!!!!! That is YOU in your own words in the above post!! Maybe now you can see how ass backward that sounds!!

If America is so evil, such a bully and so,so bad for the rest of the world, then GET OUT and if you still want to call yourself an American, may I suggest a basic History course on EXACTLY what that means!!

reply to post by Tgautier13

Also, I'm sure you're aware of the mistake by now, but you effectively asked the same question twice.

No 2 different questions.

The first, I wanted you to post a link (a source) showing how THIS ship with this crew and captain had anything to do with the claims you made.

The second, I wanted you post a link (a source) showing how ANY of the pirating of any of these recent ships (including the Italian one recently) had anything to do with your claims.

I dont think there are any sources, because they have nothing to do with it. There is zero justification in what these animals, er criminals have done. Any attempt at justifying their crime of these innocent people is ridiculous IMO. That crew and that captain are not at fault for whatever is going on in their country.....unless there is proof that they are. That is what I was asking for.

Im still learning about this issue of pirating.

Originally posted by Tgautier13
Think before you type, or at least do some research. These people are trying to protect their coastal lines from American cargo freighters who are stealing their main food supply and crippling any chance of regaining a functioning economy. Not to mention the European countries dumping their toxic waste in the area, killing the ecosystem there while the West hoards what's left all to ourselves.

Actually, you need to think before you type, as well as a few others here.
The acts of piracy off the coast of north (Gulf of Aden) and east Somalia are not only and solely reactions to "protect their coastal lines," especially from "American cargo freighters who are stealing their main food supply," blah, balh, blah. Most of the acts of piracy off the Somalia coast are for money and profits and have little to do with what you claim, despite acts of foreign toxic waste dumping and foreign off-shore fishing. FYI: they are but a few of the causes for Somali piracy; the primary reasons for such acts is again, money and profits. Bluntly put, its 'big business.'

Do you even know what a freighter is? Do you know that ALL the freighters that have been hit by acts of piracy have been laden with supplies from other regional and international ports? Do you even know what the standardized international sea lanes are off the coast of Somalia or in the Indian Ocean? Get a grip with the anti-West and anti-America rhetoric and blame.

Here are the lanes off the eastern Somali coast:


"How to Beat the Somali Pirates"


Here is the same map with the most current/recent Somali piracy acts, attacks, hijackings, etc. off the eastern Somali coast:


"How to Beat the Somali Pirates"

How about find out where this latest piracy act of a U.S. commercial vessel and plot it on the above map. Opps, you will find that it was near or within one of those standardized international transport sea lanes.

Btw, thanks for the link to the Huffington pirate apologist article; it fails. Your other article link is simply rehash ad infinitum of what has already been known to be a few of the causes/reasons for Somali acts of piracy, not the primary cause/reason.

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seany
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

why this need to label him a :"hero" , hes just ba guy who was doin his job,

the whole "hero" thing is getting old,

hero - having the balls to do what is right when faced with own personal demise.

Sadly easy to say many would do the same, or just doing his job. BUT in reality not many would react the same way when things happen.

People who are willing to risk their own life for others is rare than you think. many things weigh on peoples minds before they get involved even if it is job related.