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New Minimum Character Count For Replies.

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posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Personally, I think that it's a great idea. It gets tiresome going through 8 pages of a thread and seeing 50 replies of "Great post! S&F!" I don't always want to see 10,000 character replies, but something more than "S&F" would be great. I don't always agree with the changes going on around here, and I get frustrated at some of the things that get posted, but I think this will help to improve the quality somewhat.

I don't expect to see everyone suddenly post outstanding threads and replies, but hopefully we'll see an end to "Check this out." original posts with just a link.




posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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What is the phrase.... when you only have a hammer, everything's a nail? Be gobsmacked as you feel you need to. You still did not address the issue of a one line post saying more than a padded 200 line nonsense post. I won't be limited by these rules. If I must be restricted, you lost another member and (If i may be so bold) probably many others. We're a cranky freedom-loving bunch.



posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


It's not a bad idea at all. I really appreciated your explanation about how the feature is supposed to help provide preventive measures instead of reactive measures against 1 line posts. This will help the members see they need to add more content instead of submitting as is and later getting dinged.

Not to mention so many other forums require minimal content posts. Heck, even ATS has one if you think about it.
I've been the recipient of the 'your post is not long enough' message on here (or whatever it said).

So this really isn't anything new, Guys. It's just a few more characters to add.


The only thing I'm worried about are those who will do something similar to the 'this is not a one line post' circumvention and end up filling their posts with randomness, emoticons, and spaces. As long as that is made loud and clear that it's a no-no, then this can actually be a good thing to prevent one liners, members getting fined, and the great amount of complaints received for one-line posting.



posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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Some of the best music is non verbal yet it is quite effective in telling its own story with nothing but instruments.

They say a picture tells a thousand words.
Would it be ok to reply or post using a picture?

Is it ok to reply or post in Spanish too?



posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Well, I do want to say, since I have been in here earlier today I now find it is only 100 characters. So thank you for listening to your members, who complained about the 200 character min.

As I was posting this, I checked both ways of replying, from the generic button to the reply to you.

They are still different, but being able to live with 100 characters is much better than the 200, which is what it was at earlier today.

At least this way, ATS will have a min, which is not too extreme now. Though some members will know how to get by it, with shorter posts.

As long as there is consistency, in what ever manner someone wishes to reply. Which was obviously the point I was getting at earlier.



posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


Actually - when you have done a thread that is of interest to others, yet they might not have anything to add to it..... don't you appreciate a simple "thanks for the info S&F to you"? Doesn't that say enough?

I know it is frowned upon, but I know I like to let others know I appreciate their threads, though I may not have any information to add to that thread.

At least the min has gone down to 100.



posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by questioningall
 


Yeah, it's nice sometimes, but there's always U2U for that. It's the 8 page threads where people are discussing things and there's a lot to discuss, where it's reply after reply that's either "Great thread!" or "S&F for you!" and that's about it.



posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


It's not a bad idea at all. I really appreciated your explanation about how the feature is supposed to help provide preventive measures instead of reactive measures against 1 line posts. This will help the members see they need to add more content instead of submitting as is and later getting dinged....

The only thing I'm worried about are those who will do something similar to the 'this is not a one line post' circumvention and end up filling their posts with randomness, emoticons, and spaces.


I have to say that I agree that there have been too many "I totally agree. Second line" type posts, but I don't like this solution.

First (and Ashley, I'm not fighting you, just responding to points you brought up that are thought-provoking but I don't agree with), there always has been a measure to help members see that they need to add more content, or at least revalue whether their post makes a real contribution.

I've also gotten the screen that won't let you post a reply because it's only one line, and in many cases I have acted to circumvent it by adding an emoticon or a brief quip. I'm pretty sure I even got an applause for one of those posts: a response to a member's question where I dredged up an ancient Simon Gray post on the topic and just said: Here's what one of the owners had to say about it (with "Here" being a link to the old post).

In that sort of case, I really don't think it was necessary to say anything more. Simon's words said everything that I could have said about the issue (I think it was bad language and censor circumvention, ironically), with far more authority and conviction than any summary by me would have had.

So that's my concern #1: simple responses to simple questions that really don't need long-winded replies. One suggestion: disable the minimum posting requirements for BB&Q, especially since we don't get points here anyway.

Concern #2: things like "member introduction" threads. Short one-liners may happen either as the introduction itself (some people really just want to say, "I'm new here and I'm trying to find my way around") and in responses. And in that kind of thread a simple reply ("hey, welcome to ATS, feel free to u2u if you have questions") may be all that's needed. And to a newcomer, being inundated in an intro thread with too much information might be confusing.

Concern #3: the Writer's Forum. This I know has already been asked by other members, but as Springer recently emphasized, the Writers are a jewel of ATS. And minimum-character requirements put a pretty major limit on the sphere of creative writing.

Concern #4: circumvention. So many people have mentioned this. Yes, people will circumvent this rule. Some will circumvent it with some creativity and humor, some will circumvent it simply by using one of the ways to "pad" character count, some will circumvent it by blathering on and on with more meaningless drivel that adds nothing to the thread. But it will probably be much harder for mods to argue that a post with enough characters doesn't add anything now that you've placed the emphasis on character count rather than thought.

You say you receive several complaints every day about one-line responses; I assume that you mean through the complaints form, not through post alerting. Because honestly I think you should be receiving more like dozens of one-liner post alerts every day, and perhaps asking the membership to help out by doing this would ameliorate the situation without introducing new problems, but technical and logical, of the character count. Perhaps a strong warning on the "please use the back button on your browser and rewrite your post with more content" page, asking people to really reevaluate whether or not to submit their post. And definitely both a higher point deduction and more strict enforcement would have been a good idea. With extra penalty for thread openers who make minimal posts (nothing but "you have to see this" with either a link or a video, for instance.)

As you can perhaps guess, I will not in most cases have a problem with this policy: I tend to the prolix. But on the rare occasion that I find myself with a simple answer to a simple question, I will be much less likely to take the extra step to help a fellow member knowing that I will have to "pad out" my post with unnecessary and perhaps distracting information.



posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 10:47 PM
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I dig it. You're essentially cutting off the fat here. I don't think the quality of the discussion will go down, rather it will go up. If all you want to say is S&F, then just star and flag, and don't post anything. If you simply agree, don't post. Unless you can expand on the topic, or present a compelling argument, don't post. 200 characters is not alot, and if you can't meet the quota, what you had to say probably wasn't worth posting. Seriously. Funny quips and one liners are amusing and all, and sometimes you can say something profound in few words, but we're here to learn and collaborate, it's not a tough stretch to elaborate alittle extra to meet the quota.

Those that circumvent; punish severely. These are not the people we need here. In fact, this kind of move by the Admins part may be just the thing to chase off the ADD types that bring zero or less than zero to the discussion.

This forums was really starting to get juvenile, hopefully this new feature will weed out the trolls and immature, and let the people who have something intelligent be more clearly heard.

Edit to add: Methinks the real reason people are griping is not because they have to type a LITTLE more( and seriously 200 is not alot.) It's probably more about all the radical free thinkers can't bear to have any more rules imposed. Puh-leeze. If you consider yourself a true intellectual and seeker of truth and all that warm and fuzzy stuff, a few extra letters won't make any difference, whether you agree with the rule or not. If it's so morally and ethically repulsive to you, by all means, bounce out. See ya, I doubt we'll miss you.

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Gigatronix]



posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 10:49 PM
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Quality, not quantity. Judge that.

Ugh, 60 more to go..



posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


OK, I can live with that. I was getting quite tired of what has become the "norm" as of late. It makes it quite difficult to follow posts and the conservation. Especailly from all these "new" people. I know that I am not an old member-but I read for a year and half before I joined.

Now all I need to do spend more time thinking bfore I reply-so I can have alonger post.



(yes I need to learn spell)

[edit on 12-4-2009 by ShadowMaster]



posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


I agree with


Originally posted by Zaphod58
It gets tiresome going through 8 pages of a thread and seeing 50 replies of "Great post! S&F!" // It's the 8 page threads where people are discussing things and there's a lot to discuss, where it's reply after reply that's either "Great thread!" or "S&F for you!" and that's about it.


I, too, am getting sick of seeing "S&F! Keep up the good work!!" in so many threads. People forget that when you star and/or flag a thread, you're ALREADY giving the topic maker praise. When you give the topic creator praise in your post WITHOUT any other content other than praising the topic creator for his amazing finding(s), it takes away the original message of the topic.

This isn't Twitter, MySpace, 4chan, or even YouTube. ATS is a forum where people should think.



posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 11:31 PM
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I like this movie. Alot of posts are not worth reading at this time. Of course alot of "I agree" or "Great post" "Starred & flagged" posts. While positive feedback is good, it just makes threads unbearably long. There's also lots of "Just another step towards NWO" or "Just like 9-11" posts that quite frankly add nothing to the discussion. I know I personally get frustrated trying to read through 10-15 page threads on topics I truly am interested in, because there's sometimes maybe even only 1 post per page that had any thought put into it.

And people complaining that 200, or even 100 characters is too high a limit are ridiculous. That's not even a full paragraph. If you don't have enough to add to a thread to make up three sentences, then odds are you are just wasting a post slot that nobody is going to bother reading. I know I usually skip over the vast tracts of single-line posts.

[edit on 4-12-2009 by Esoterica]

[edit on 4-12-2009 by Esoterica]



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 12:28 AM
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I'm sorry, I understand what you are saying, but this to me is just another brick added to that road to hell that gets paved with good intentions.


Mankind, striving for excellence etc etc etc.

Just like too many Cooks spoiled the broth

Too many rules make for a real pain in the you know where...





posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 12:29 AM
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I didn't think it was possible to come up with a worse idea than the "one line post rule" but I was wrong, you managed it.

What risk exactly do short posts create, please help me understand what the exposure is here?



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 12:35 AM
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I think this is a really bad idea.

I agree that posts must be relevant to the discussion (no such things like "SF for you, second line and no one cares if X agrees with Y, we do want to know why)
What I don't like is that , like in real life I like to keep things as short and clear as possible. If I have a question that is less than 100 words, why should I go to the trouble of formulating a certain way or adding unnecessary thoughts to it? So overall, I think people will not write as many posts/threads as they used to.
Not to mention those who aren't that good in English and now dissuaded even more from contributing.

ATS decided to punish everyone for a few that don't respect the rule and that is unfortunate. There are plenty of mods, is it so hard to delete inappropriate posts? Their jobs isnt going to be any easier, people have already found ways around this "ban".
Ultimately, content in ATS is by the people for the people and the less over-restricting it is the better. Remember these are DISCUSSION forums, let people express themselves intelligently and I believe this can be done under a 100 words every time.

Cheers



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Good idea SO...

I love that you guys can enter code to make the posting here on ATS better, but still can't manage to code the Narcotic Conspiracy forum to make it so every new thread has to be approved by mods, which would solve the ENTIRE issue...
yeah, but I know its hard to write new code...
Oh, wait, You already have the code written for anonymous ATS posts...
God this is SOOO LAME!



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by Retseh
I didn't think it was possible to come up with a worse idea than the "one line post rule" but I was wrong, you managed it.

What risk exactly do short posts create, please help me understand what the exposure is here?


Bandwith?


(to prove my point: I now need to add more stuff to the conversation when a simple word can answer or ask a question to contribute to the topic...ah there is is i can now hit SUBMIT REPLY)

[edit on 13-4-2009 by TheOracle]



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 12:52 AM
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Well done!


[edit on 13/4/2009 by nerbot]



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 12:58 AM
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Well done..

After the recent comments I made about this problem I'm SOOOOOO glad you've finally implemented a rule to cover it.

Having it automatically ensured is a relief for the mods too I'm sure.

Thanks Skeptic, you know it makes sense...which is more than can be said for some of the dumb one-liners.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's possible to circumvent by a quick edit though!

Just thought I'd show you with my above post.




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