That really has nothing to do with communism. That's the result of a dictatorship, and similar events have happened in every dictatorship.

But I'm puzzled about all the threads you keep seeing that propose communism? I haven't seen one here, ever....

The truth is both communism and capitalism are flawed, instrinsically. The Scandinavian countries which are capitalistic too in todays world, and monied, have something that the US and China do not have (for both the US, UK and China share a common theme, believe it or not, and the Scandinavian countries share a common theme. The distribution of power. It doesn't have to do with how you blend the ability to create economy and industry versus social obligations, tax dollars boomeranging back to their citizens in superlative programs, or equalizing wealth between individuals. Thats core to a civilized world and most of the world isn't as civil! What it really has to do with is fascism (Communist China), fascism (pseudo democracy UK and US, which really operates like an illegal pyramid scheme monopoly, mascarading as a free-enterprise and capitalism, versus real democracy, grass roots, non-bloodline democracy, and sharing of power with the people. This is called proportional democracy.

Proportional democracy is the highest model of democracy or any form of government on the planet. Unlike the winner take all model, the percentages you vote for fill the house. Ie. a man like our BC premier cannot win a majority government on 40% roughly vote in his riding and province wide, with 60% split between the green and ndp. Because in proportional democracy 60% green and ndp would fill the house. All governments become minority and need to learn to cooperate. People and their public input actually carries weight. Many more parties, ie. non-bloodline elite ones, get formed and actually win seats. Many more women run. Consequently you see wonderful programs and shared wealth, along with very good world businesses. Its a win win situation.

This, done in a moneyless resource society, sort of like the venus project, without any patents or ownership of any inventions or ideas, and people driven, would be a very good world to live in. Everything else is massive child abuse.

[edit on 12-4-2009 by mystiq]

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
That really has nothing to do with communism. That's the result of a dictatorship, and similar events have happened in every dictatorship.

exactly, if we get to a time when a computer will be smart enough and be programmed just for truth, than socialism may work in its real form. Until then huamns will always be beasts at the top.

Capitalism is just as bad, and not free market at all. We all live in a world left of center, not right of center. Anarchy or socialism, are the real right or left paradigms. We live in a world where we choose really what form of left sided government we have, we are never really in the right hand side of that equation.

Democracy is never the answer, as its just mob rule, if the mob doesn't like you they can vote to kill you. What sort of rubbish system is that. Thats why everyone pretends to be a sheep just to get along.

[edit on 4/12/2009 by andy1033]

Originally posted by andy1033
exactly, if we get to a time when a computer will be smart enough and be programmed just for truth, than socialism may work in its real form. Until then huamns will always be beasts at the top.

[edit on 4/12/2009 by andy1033]

Are you suggesting that a form of govenment ran by a computer would be superior?

And in a pure democracy, 51% beats 49%. In other words, the minority has no rights. The minority only has those privileges granted by the dictatorship of the majority.

Democracy or rather proportional is the answer. You have only to do a little research to realize that certain countries have been shining their lights for a very long time, and have the highest standards of living in the world, with highly educated people, and actually do the next step, adopt their systems.

One of my friends family escaped from Hungary just before the curtain fell, ironically, and after living in Canada under a conservative federal government, and working hard, she told me that she could hardly tell the difference between the right winged politics here, and Communism, in how it translated for the common person. No, she didn't have huge lineups for necessities, but she worked just as hard, and the only thing she had to show for it was a vcr. Her food was limited, her housing poor and not suitable for her family. She could have stayed there for the same abuse.

Representative democracy doesnt cut it at all, and is just a tool to seem like people are in control, but really they're ruled.

Please everyone take the time to watch all parts of this post. It is truly awe inspiring and also a picture of how one person can make a change. It will change the way you see the obstacles before you.

Can you imagine the potential for abuse in a world where a computer, programmed for truth (who's truth?), runs the world. Yikes! Would anyone care for a steaming hot cup of Diebold soup?


Vote Qumiby!

There will come a time when a computer will be able to tell all truth in any matter. It will be able to tell if your lying, can go back over your whole life, and tell if you have commited a crime. It will be absolute truth over society. I doubt it will be programmed by people, as computers will eventually teach themslves, will they not.

I doubt any human will be able to do a better job. Plus its the only way a human society can truely be socialist, and be equal for everyone.

I know some may have some doubts, but maybe there will be a time when such a computer exists,a nd is better than all of us, and does things that are just for truth and whats right.

Hell yeah! Tank man is awesome! Love that guy!

Well, democracy won't restrict the minority if that is watched for. That is to say, democracy being flawed, is not really true because it obviously is the only way. The flaw comes in the gaps through which the jerkwads will try to wreck the vote or oppress the minority.

I do agree with the statement that "tech" will become the central holy grail for this problem, but again as mentioned, who wants a Deibold machine? No, the machine would have to be verifiable at a granular level. Proprietary tech will never succeed as dreamed up here. I am saying that tech as such (wonderful little gadgets) will ultimately be the lifeline which humans reach for. It could be bad or good, depending on the transparency.

I do like the idea of a commune tho. I get to pursue the appreciation of nature at an intense level while planting beans and so on. But communes don't work on a large scale and the Soviet farming experiments proved that a disaster, yet the nation saved themselves collectively through their little garden plots. So a small apartment for example would have a commune-type garden which fed the whole building because the government was being imploded and looted. I am saying that small scale farming is the biggest solution which Americans need to detach from their mental picture of what is evil about communism.

What is evil about communism: Large scale farming failures and large, growing prison populations/gulags. These can also crop up in any other government also. The specifics have not been discussed enough, so thanks for this thread.

[edit on 14-4-2009 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by burntheships
It is evil when a government oppresses the people. Food has always been used to manipulate the populice...this century's total killed by absolutist governments already far exceeds that for all wars, domestic and international. Indeed, this number already approximates the number that might be killed in a nuclear war.

Good links and good info. Yes, we agree on the food issue.

Part of the reason I am always ranting about native ways is that these people know how to feed themselves right here in America. I mean I'm not talking about "A Country Boy an Survive" where you need a .22 I'm talking about knowing what plants are edible and so on. I think Americans are being purposefully distanced from this knowledge.

Although it's not food related, I think milkweed is a good example because so many people died from it when all it took was one native woman to point out that Indians had always known it was poisonous. Abe Lincoln's mom died only a few years before this was widely understood. Point is this: No communist party can ever tell a farmer or a person who really knows the land, what to do. The natives of the soviet states knew how to farm and they knew what they could produce. The circuit of actual knowledge proceeds from the farm to the city, not the other way around.

If you think China is communist just because it's in the party name, you are delusional. They are the most highly capitalistic state on the planet. They also happen to have an authoritarian government. There is a difference between economic and governmental systems, but I guess there's a lot of disinfo out there trying to confuse the average person.