War must not end!!

Originally posted by locster
reply to post by Chaos67731

 

I hope that was ment to be funny. Do you have any idea why there is war?
Research it a little, google is your friend.
Try and find the connection between where funding and special training went and the countries the USA went to war with.

I'm not saying you are wrong or right, just try to find out as much as you can about a subject and then make a decision.
There are always 2 sides to a story.

More times then not there are more then two sides, And that is what can make it a little tricky, And dont forget I am in now way saying our government is picking the rite side to fight all of the time, And I do believe that sometimes they do pick a war just to help them self's out,

I am researching now and part of that research makes me want to see what others say, Just reading is never a way to learn, Google can point you in the wrong way and it is best to hear from as many people as you can about any one thing. Just to make sure you get more then one side..

How knows by the end of the day I might change my mine 100% but as of now. I see no reason to back off yet.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by Chaos67731

 

Hmmm I don't have the anwers really. I just know that it should be something that makes the children of whole WORLD think, wow America, the uk etc are really nice peaceful compassionate people, I respect them, I do not fear them, I do not hate them.

I don't think war at their homes, near their families, will make them think like this.

I would say most of the world does have peaceful people in it, And I hope that my son never has to see a thing like this happen. I just do not see how the WORLD will get there by backing off. I am not saying make everyone think one way, But I am saying that people like the ones in the video must not be able to walk around thinking its ok to do this. We can not let it happen again and again.. And if they will not hear reason then what are we as a world to do? We can not sit back and just say "dont do it again"..

reply to post by Chaos67731


Very good. Realizing you might not have the right answers or even the willingness to change your opinion if presented with information that rings more true to you is very admirable.
People tend to get stuck in their own belief system, thinking changing their mind about a certain subject is treason to themselves.

On any subject, especially yours, there are many sides and beliefs.
IMHO there is never one single truth, never one good and one bad side, just lots of shades of grey.

Question everything, read all you can get and go with what rings most true to you.

Then again, what do i know?

reply to post by Faiol

man, terrorists were created by america .... and they exist because you guys are killing their wives and children .... so they shouldnt be named terrorist ....

I think you're overstating it just a little tiny bit... Terrorist, by many names, have existed for as long as Man has taken sides in conflicts. To credit (?) the United States with the creation of terrorists is to give us far, far too much credit...

Terrorist/FreedomFighter is strictly a matter of which side you are on...hence the confusion over just what constitutes a terrorist.

I really don't know what to say. War is never a necessary evil. War is just plain evil, that's it.

You think there are people out there who hate the US so much that they're ready to blow themselves up? Sure there are! But you fail to look at their reasoning. People in general are peaceful, they don't want harm coming their way, and that's exactly what war does. It's not PEOPLE who hate each other, rather it's REGIMES that over a period of time, brainwash and use propaganda to breed new generations of people who end up hating each other.

You think Arabs, or Americans or people from any demographics truely hate each other? No they really don't. It's people with power that make this hate happen at the first place.

War is not the common man's solution to anything. War is what people at the top use to serve their own interests. People would rather just live at peace. You think they'd just suddenly wake up one day and decide to hate you? No! It's a systematic brainwashing that goes on for generations.

War is never the answer.

reply to post by prophetpiggy

War is never a necessary evil. War is just plain evil, that's it

Forgive me if I disagree with you over the neccessity of war, at times. At times, a man/woman must stand up to evil, and force, or war, is a neccessary tool of the process of standing up to it. Some evils are not stopped by looking and sounding shocked, my freind. Sometimes you need to beat it over the head to stop it.

Wars are a horror, but so to is tyranny of any sort.

A Roman senator, Seneca (I think) said it best, I'm paraphrasing here, so bear with me. "If you would have peace, prepare for war."

Evil? Oh, yes...war is evil.

Some people are peaceful, in general, most people are peaceful, BUT there are plenty of people out there quite willing to use violence to get what they want.

The war against the terrorists isn't just the U.S. against terrorism, it is the world against terrorism. Anyone who wants to pretend that those terrorists who blew up a school full of children were trying to defend their families is several bricks short of a full load. Anyone who wants to pretend that the Taliban killing school girls for daring to go to school are defending their families has their heads in a hole.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by prophetpiggy

 

War is never a necessary evil. War is just plain evil, that's it

Forgive me if I disagree with you over the neccessity of war, at times. At times, a man/woman must stand up to evil, and force, or war, is a neccessary tool of the process of standing up to it. Some evils are not stopped by looking and sounding shocked, my freind. Sometimes you need to beat it over the head to stop it.

Wars are a horror, but so to is tyranny of any sort.

A Roman senator, Seneca (I think) said it best, I'm paraphrasing here, so bear with me. "If you would have peace, prepare for war."

Evil? Oh, yes...war is evil.

I must say that I do agree with you. You're right in saying that war is necessary to end tyranny. But I'm talking about wars based on false motives here. Is the outcome of a necessary war really optimal if the tyranny is slowly but surely replaced by another form of tyranny?

You're also right in saying that some evils can only be stopped through war. But what I'm saying is, let the people decide what they want. Was it necessary for the normal Iraqi population to be rid of the tyrannical saddam regime? It definitely was. Was it necessary for the american people to lend a hand? It definitely was.

But don't let necessity get in the way of decision-making and false motives. Tyrannical regimes need to be rid of, but in a way so that the outcome is favourable to the situation before the war.

reply to post by prophetpiggy

Is the outcome of a necessary war really optimal if the tyranny is slowly but surely replaced by another form of tyranny?

That's the responsibility of the people that have been freed, IMNSHO. It's up to them to choose the form of gov't. that replaces it. That does nothing to negate the necessity of the war.

That, obviously, doesn't make all wars necessary. Most are not, in fact, in my not so humble opinion (again); wars to free people is a fairly recent phenomena.

reply to post by Chaos67731


You might find this interesting .
War Is A Racket by Major General Smedley Butler . A two-time Congessional medal of honour recipient .

extract.....

This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.

For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket; not until I retired to civil life did I fully realize it.

Now that I see the international war clouds gathering, as they are today, I must face it and speak out.

That extract is from his book War Is A Racket ( linked above )
It was wrote in 1935 ......... it could of been written last week.


A summation of his career , in his own words ...

"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street.

I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903.

In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

link


I would be surprised if his book shares a bookshelf with the "Art of War " etc. at West Point Academy .

Originally posted by Chaos67731

First of all Americans are for the most part good guy.
We are not out to really take anyone over and we try to help out a lot.

"Not really out to take anyone over"? maybe you can explain that.


in the last 60 years there have been maybe 2 cases of humanitarian intervention, true humanitarian military intervention. And the US military had no part in either of them.

www.chomsky.info...


Just 1 example, and there are hundreds, if not more, of how good the "good guys" are. Have you heard of the Contras? They were directly funded by Congress. They were also maybe one of the first guerilla units to operate in an area where they had probably NO support from the local population. And that's because the local population was their target.

Seriously. Hanging people from flag poles, rape, murder, torture. You name it the Contras did it. They are perhaps the most notorious and brutal terrorist group to ever operate anywhere in the world. And considering the face of terrorism, that's quite the statement. and true, i can provide more if you want.

And they were directly funded by The Unites States Congress.


That was 20 years ago, or more now i suppose. but now the focus has shifted to the middle east,...and who knows what horror stories will come from these invasions. Not much has changed in US foreign policy in over 60 years.


And that's it. The United States has troops on their soil. The US is dropping bombs on their homes. The US has invaded their lands.


And you might say the US has right to defend itself, and actually I agree with that statement. The US has a right to defend itself absolutely. But not with force.

Much like British troops had a right to defend themselves against George Washington's armies. And they did defend themselves. they defended themselves by leaving.

Much like Israel has a right to defend itself, though, again, not with force.







[edit on 18-4-2009 by KotovSyndrome]

I'm glad we went. Given what we were being told at the time I was all for it, and I know we have done much for that country.

But I think it's time to leave. Then when Shiite slaughters Sunni which they have promised to do we will see a true evil that will make Darfur look like Disney world. Lets leave tonight, i've been waiting for this "we told you so." and it's been a long time coming.