Why does our creator want us to hate each other?

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by Welfhard

 

Get real..I am NOT interested in converting anyone.

I am NOT interested in a lot of crap - if you read my posts you will see that.

I didn't say you were, but I said no one wants to get converted.

reply to post by alyosha1981


As far as the evil part is concerned, man could have been created not to have free will but WILL FREE instead.

The tendency to hate is not natural. We aren't born with it. It is 'taught' to us, and thrust upon us.

Surah al-Maidah, Verse 48
To every one of you We have appointed a right way and a traced-out Way. If God had willed, He would have made you one nation; but that He may try you in what has come to you. So be you forward in good works; unto God shall you return, all together; and He will tell you of that whereon you were at variance.

reply to post by babloyi


Not sure I totally agree with you. Animals have similar tendencies.

It seems to me that we are instilled with trust of alike individuals, life family and fellow society members. We are distrustful, at first, of strangers/outsiders.

I think this is a natural evolutionary development.

reply to post by Welfhard

I'm not sure I totally agree with you either

I stand by my statement that this is something that is 'taught'. And since you bring animals into it, I can provide a relevant example:
I had a number of dogs, and unfortunately, they are not very well trained. When a stray cat (or worse, a neighbour's cat) came near, all hell broke loose, and the result was usually a pretty damaged cat.

However, I had pups a while back, and someone left me a litter of kittens. When the pups were finally walking about, I had the kittens in the same yard. Now they don't seem to go so crazy with cats anymore, and even the older dogs seem to have calmed down (perhaps after noting the lack of reaction from the younger pups?). Coexistence yay!

Hahahah....A lesson for humanity to be learnt here

[edit on 16-4-2009 by babloyi]

Originally posted by babloyi
However, I had pups a while back, and someone left me a litter of kittens. When the pups were finally walking about, I had the kittens in the same yard. Now they don't seem to go so crazy with cats anymore, and even the older dogs seem to have calmed down (perhaps after noting the lack of reaction from the younger pups?). Coexistence yay!

Ah yes the eating of the "red berries".

This is similar to a duck hatching an immediately bonding with the first individual it sees. "Mummy!" it thinks. It's conditioned to familiarise itself with things it sees in youth, this is common in all animals and is why children are naive, trusting of adults and 'innocent'. After a time, we get older and the brain and mind become far more individualised and is less likely to be quickly accepting of individuals unlike those it is familiar with.

This is a perfectly natural behaviour.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by Welfhard

Reducing it to the label of 'eating of red berries' doesn't diminish the argument.
I'm not sure what you are suggesting now? You are right that the distrust of others is evolutionary, but you are also right that youngsters don't distrust outsiders? I'm not sure I follow.

I could provide a similar example with older animals if you like? What would be the explanation then? A friend of mine also has dogs. He got a buffalo a couple years back, and now they seem to get along okay. I brought my dog to his farm once, and she ran like hell (in the opposite direction ) when she saw the buffalo.

Now I suppose you could explain this away as well with "familiarity breeds complacency", but then....if there is such a natural evolutionary development (that must go back a long long time), then it seems pretty silly that even the slightest change in the parameters can render it null or unprovable, and thus, it would be very much irrelevant.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by babloyi]

Originally posted by babloyi
Reducing it to the label of 'eating of red berries' doesn't diminish the argument.

I didn't mean to.

I could provide a similar example with older animals if you like? What would be the explanation then? A friend of mine also has dogs. He got a buffalo a couple years back, and now they seem to get along okay. I brought my dog to his farm once, and she ran like hell (in the opposite direction

) when she saw the buffalo.

My Foxterrior used to be afraid of sheep, until she realised that they were afraid of here.

Now I suppose you could explain this away as well with "familiarity breeds complacency", but then....if there is such a natural evolutionary development (that must go back a long long time), then it seems pretty silly that even the slightest change in the parameters can render it null or unprovable, and thus, it would be very much irrelevant.

I'm not saying that evolutionary instincts aren't overidable.

It's kinda like saying "assume all are untrustworthy until proven other wise."

I am a misanthrope and as such assume all people are scum until proven otherwise.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by Welfhard

Hahah...you hide it well, then. I think I've been a lot more touchy and argumentative than you so far. Which is odd, because I generally tend to assume the best of people until they prove otherwise (and sometimes even then).


[edit on 16-4-2009 by babloyi]

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Welfhard

 

Hahah...you hide it well, then.

Oh trust me, I despise you, lol. JK.

I think I've been a lot more touchy and argumentative than you so far. Which is odd, because I generally tend to assume the best of people until they prove otherwise (and sometimes even then).

Meh. This is an interesting discussion so..


You remember that thread about the Polar bear that wondered up and started playing with the snow dogs?

That one threw me.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by spellbound
Why are we born with the natural desire to bully and kill our fellowman?

If God is Love, surely he would have created us without these evil instincts.

And they definitely are instincts. Even little kids love it if someone is embarrassed and humiliated.

good reasoning. you see a pattern and from it can see that something doesnt make sense.

it is true that we are born with this sense of destruction. but because we are born with it doesnt mean that its what god originally intended.

romans 5:[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

since adam's sin, his offspring have been affected like a genetic disease. because of this we do not act the way we were designed to act.

gal 5:[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

we may want to be good people, but sometimes its not possible. we slip up. most of the time its little this like bullying or lying.

jesus himself refers to this struggle with our flesh

matt 26:[41] Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

but he also tells us of a healing

rev:[1] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
[2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
[3] And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

in other words, there will be a times when it isnt out nature to hurt people. we will be healed as verse 2 points out. we will live the way we were designed to