Why does our creator want us to hate each other?

reply to post by Welfhard


He did it to Adam and Eve, so why wouldn't he do it to us?

And even if you look upon the Garden of Eden story as an allegory, I think it is still an exercise for us.

He tried them, they failed, therefore he tries us and, sadly, most of us fail.

The world certainly fails.

But I think that He has given us a glimmer of hope, and that hope I Jesus.

He is saying that even if we fail, Jesus will give us a second chance.

reply to post by Welfhard


Also, I prefer to call it a game, but another word is battle.

So the world battles itself, and we battle ourselves - pretty dumb when you think about it.

It can only lead to our downfall eventually.

reply to post by spellbound

He tried them, they failed, therefore he tries us and, sadly, most of us fail.

Adam and Eve never existed as in genesis but (even as an allegory) he knew they'd fail, he made them, he designed them, and unless he failed to make them right (which isn't logical) he set them up to fail.

Also, I prefer to call it a game, but another word is battle.

So the world battles itself, and we battle ourselves - pretty dumb when you think about it.

It can only lead to our downfall eventually.

He's also the gamemaster... Think about it.

reply to post by Welfhard


Wow, so you agree with me that it is all a game/battle/contest arranged for the pleasure of the great Gamemaster. I never thought that you would agree with me on anything.

But where does that leave Jesus, in your view?

reply to post by spellbound


I think we are left to our own devices. That we cannot blame anyone but ourselves for how we choose to conduct ourselves. That doesn't mean I don't believe in a "higher power, prime mover, god, etc etc etc" just means I don't think that being is the micromanager everyone wants it to be.

[edit on 14-4-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by spellbound


Speaking as a game master in multiple sessions of Dungeons and Dragons etc. I never set up the modules for my own amusement though I do get some but for the players amusement. After a game master with no players is not running a game but writing a book.

Basically, I set the stage but they are the actors who chose how they will play it.

[edit on 14-4-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by spellbound


(Don't forget that I'm arguing on the assumption god exists, which I don't actually believe, but...) Jesus was a messiah, a Christ, which is not significant. There were many many sects at the time with their own messiahs and "Christus" was a title meaning 'anointed one' often attributed to a leader or king or something. Anyway, if he did exist (which isn't likely when one looks at the history books) then he would've been practically a nobody preacher who stole the minds and amazement of a small group, like all the hundreds of is competitors.

Study of the gospels (including the ones that were left out of the bible, at least the ones that still exist), it seems most of the story is an allegory, with many recycled, old, old teachings. For instance the Golden rule wasn't his, Confucius was talking about the exact same principle hundreds of years prior to Jesus' alleged lifetime.

Anyway, you ok with the idea that you are but a pawn in a cosmic game of chess? Doesn't that god a rather uncaring individual? Think about all the people who suffer for his game. Do they suffer purely for his amusement? Isn't that detestable?

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Yes, that is like the world really, but do you have any views on a merciful figure, like Jesus?

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by spellbound

 

Think about all the people who suffer for his game. Do they suffer purely for his amusement? Isn't that detestable?

Allow me to pose my own question if you please. Isn't suffering a part of existance? What if we were here to learn to understand what it was to exist would not suffering be part of that lesson?

reply to post by spellbound


An attempt to show us a better way perhaps? I don't really know to be honest. What we did with it is detestable though.

We are born with these instincts. What many people fail to realize is that we are animals, too. The only difference is we have larger, more specialized brains that enable us to think abstractly. And with our larger, "better" brains, we invented civilization, politics, and religion as a way to peacefully co-exist with as little conflict amongst each other as possible.

Life is a struggle. In order to live, everything living must kill something else in order to sustain itself. Animals kill animals. Animals kill plants. (But that's ok because we don't think of plants as being alive the way we animals are alive.) Plants also kill other plants. All based on the natural instincts to eliminate competition.

We have gotten away from this mentality through the advance of civilization. We have forgotten that life is a struggle.

I'm not advocating that bullying is the right thing to do. All I'm saying is that it and other negative traits are hard-coded into us from millions of years of evolution. Some people lack the willpower to stop themselves from victimizing others, or sometimes their brains are just wired differently, or they are suffering from mental illness or a chemical imbalance and they cannot understand fully that what they are doing is not socially acceptable. That's why we have socio-paths and psycho-paths.

Now you can blame this on an uncaring God who is using us as his playthings for his own amusement, or you can look at it from a more natural perspective.

reply to post by Welfhard


Yes, I do have a lot of trouble thinking about suffering people, especially children born into starving communities, and I also worry a lot about animals.

But I think that there is still hope through Jesus.

reply to post by Thinkmore


But what is the point?

I mean, why are we here if not to learn and be kind to each other.

I don't understand why mankind is so horrible.


And who/whatever made us - why?

I have to say again, I think it is a sick game/experiment.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

What if we were here to learn to understand what it was to exist would not suffering be part of that lesson?

Why would we? Couldn't there be no meaning at all? Couldn't we just *be*?


reply to post by spellbound

But I think that there is still hope through Jesus.

I think it's now very important that you ask yourself whether you believe that because you want to or you have another reason. Then you have to think to yourself "Is that a good enough reason to believe?"

[edit on 14-4-2009 by Welfhard]

i believe the answer . OP, is in this video.

www.viddler.com...

its long video but around 25mins onwards is what you are seeking.



[edit on 14-4-2009 by grantbeed]

There is no point. Just enjoy the yourself while you're here. Live and be the best person you can be. Don't spend all your time worrying about others, or sticking your nose in their business.

That's some advice that a lot of people can certainly use.

reply to post by Welfhard


Well, I really believe in Jesus as our Saviour. I have long since renounced all churches, but I still believe that Jesus will come at Armaggedon.

I am convinced of this. It is just a feeling deep within me. Sorry, can't prove it.

reply to post by spellbound

I have long since renounced all churches

Kudos.

Well, I really believe in Jesus as our Saviour. I have long since renounced all churches, but I still believe that Jesus will come at Armaggedon.

I am convinced of this. It is just a feeling deep within me. Sorry, can't prove it.

But still, you ought to question your motives for believing.

reply to post by grantbeed


Thank you very much,

I will definitely watch it later.

This is post is too short so I will say thank you again.

reply to post by Welfhard


When you know something deep in your bones/gut/being, you don't question it.

What can I say - have you ever had this total conviction that something is true?