I open the debate, one more time, because I know that some people in USA criticize this law.

I totally agree, education is above the law in France as there are ethnic schools for the religios

Another step forward in a secular society.

Deep

Dont you think that making a law to ban headscarf (not only headscarf, but muslims are actually the most active militant in schools) is a bit too much ?

Some people here in France say that it's a non-sense, because this law wont be usable to ban religion symbols : Some communauties still have found an argument to pass-by the law, by telling these clothes are not religion symbols but fashion or traditional dresses...

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELSSome people here in France say that it's a non-sense, because this law wont be usable to ban religion symbols : Some communauties still have found an argument to pass-by the law, by telling these clothes are not religion symbols but fashion or traditional dresses...

anyone who strongly believes in their religion wont do that, its basically like being ashamed of their religion or hiding it.

this law is wrong and blatantly restricts freedom.

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by namehere]

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I don't believe in organized religion; it is for the weak of mind, IMO. But I don't criticize those that do believe in it.

People should be allowed to wear symbols of their belief, such as a crucifix or Star of David or whatever on a chain. Schools should be allowed to enforce dress codes, such as no headwear at all during school. I also believe that a case can be made for certain types of clothing such as robes.

There was a situation here in America where a Muslim wanted to have a drivers license picture wearing a scarf that hid her facial features. I don't know how the case was resolved, but I am against her wearing it for obvious reasons, including security.

I am not familiar with France's policy regarding separaton of church and state, which makes a big difference in this discussion.

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i think banning religious symbols is abit too extreme IMO. You should be free to express your faith

The french people often violently reject religious fact, because of our history : Revolution, separation of church and state...

Some people consider this law has a racist law, because it's of course focused on the muslim headscarf.

France is also a country where women have a bigger influence on political decision than anywhere else, so, this law is also a ay to protect muslim women from submission (slavery) to males, even if it's not enought...

We have recently banned from our territory two imams who was preaching in french mosquees Djihad and charia...

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
The french people often violently reject religious fact, because of our history : Revolution, separation of church and state...

Some people consider this law has a racist law, because it's of course focused on the muslim headscarf.

France is also a country where women have a bigger influence on political decision than anywhere else, so, this law is also a ay to protect muslim women from submission (slavery) to males, even if it's not enought...

We have recently banned from our territory two imams who was preaching in french mosquees Djihad and charia...

nans, i never knew that.

Some people consider this law has a racist law, because it's of course focused on the muslim headscarf.

When i first heard about the new law, it seemed very anti-islamic to me

Another important reason for the need of this law is that these days in France, there are many agressions done by young muslim on jewish peoples.

This new form of antisemitism, done by some muslim who compare themselves to palestinian mudjahidin, is a big problem.

Banning religious symbols from school is also a way to stop comunitarism segregation in french scools.

In some school in france, muslim and jews never talk together.





[Edited on 23-4-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]

It's just France's xenophobic way to try to keep foreigners under control. Originally, it was just Muslim headscarves, nothing else. Jews and Christians could do what they wanted. Then everyone complained, so they changed it to include all religions. If this law had any merit, it would of included everyone in the first place.

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS

In some school in france, muslim and jews never talk together.

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]

really? in some ways i can understand why they might not speak to one an another, but i never knew this goes on in schools

Originally posted by curme
It's just France's xenophobic way to try to keep foreigners under control. Originally, it was just Muslim headscarves, nothing else. Jews and Christians could do what they wanted. Then everyone complained, so they changed it to include all religions. If this law had any merit, it would of included everyone in the first place.

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And if the nations that these muslims come from practiced the same freedoms and had the same tolerance that that France and America and others have, there would be no need for such laws to begin with.

I find it ironic that people that escape from oppression often scream the loudest about not being tolerated in their adopted country.

Try to wear a Star of David in Syria or Iran; see how long you last.

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Not to be antigonistic, but I would tell the lawmakers in France to kiss my white ass. But I'm glad to see the JSO thinks religion is for the weak minded.

You must be a stark Catholic then bud

Totally disagree. Religion should not be taught in schools as fact or that one religion is more correct in the other. But banning students from expressing their faith does not reduce stress, as the law is meant to. Forcing someone to remove a piece of clothign they hold near and dear and see as sacred is going to cause more problems than it solves.

Originally posted by jsobeckyTry to wear a Star of David in Syria or Iran; see how long you last.

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You wont last longer with it in a french suburb or in some blocks of big cities with a major part of muslim immigrant living there.

And if the nations that these muslims come from practiced the same freedoms and had the same tolerance that that France and America and others have, there would be no need for such laws to begin with.

And I find it ironic that you assume the Muslims in question weren't born in France, when we are talking about tolerance.
Why aren't you aren't assuming the French Jews came from Israel or the French Christians came from Tennesse?

Originally posted by curme

And if the nations that these muslims come from practiced the same freedoms and had the same tolerance that that France and America and others have, there would be no need for such laws to begin with.

And I find it ironic that you assume the Muslims in question weren't born in France, when we are talking about tolerance.
Why aren't you aren't assuming the French Jews came from Israel or the French Christians came from Tennesse?

I dont understand what you mean.

I mean, people are saying that the Muslims are not French citizens. That just because they are Muslim, they are assumed to be from the Middle East. So, that is like saying a Jew must be from Israel, or a Christian from America. One's religion does not define your nationality. So when someone says "And if the nations that these muslims come from " how do they know that the nation they come from isn't France.

so, this law is also a ay to protect muslim women from submission (slavery) to males, even if it's not enought...

The muslim women did not ask for help from the french government to overthrow a tradition they have been following for nearly 1400 years.

The French government has overstepped their boundaries in this one. The claim that they are trying to seperate church and state by doing this... that is laughable and makes me think that the French government must have inhaled something or other. By passing laws against religious observance they are blurring the lines between church and state even more. The seperation of church and state is intended so that the government does not support any religion over any other in order to allow people to worship however they want. Muslim women wear a headscarf because their religion teaches them to be modest. How dare the government of France not allow them their modesty? That is not seperating church and state, that is acting as chuch! That is saying "Muslims, you no longer have to follow this law while in the following places."

It is simply not their place to do that, period. Maybe France should use some of their oil for food money to take a few classes in how to govern properly. Next thing you know Mosques Churches and Synagogues will have to remove any external crosses stars and crescents from their buildings. If the government of France is a bunch of atheists i can respect that, but let people practice what they want... I think that's called "Freedom".