Why do Atheists care about religion?

reply to post by DaMod


Couldn't have said it better myself.

It seems that is has turned into a war over who is right, rather than both sides just enjoying the joys of life itself.

And you are right...it is tradition. Not a bad one either.

This country was founded upon religious principles - why must we dissolve it just because of our dumb politicians and arrogant freaks who want everything their way (now thats hypocrisy)?

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


"This country was founded upon religious principles - why must we dissolve it just because of our dumb politicians and arrogant freaks who want everything their way (now thats hypocrisy)?"

Once again we get someone who thinks the Founding Fathers were holy rollers. History classes, they're not just a good idea, their important.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by lastxdance

 

Okay, then. The BuyBull is wrong.

I am an atheist and I don't care for religions. I care that the Faithful are trying to jam religion down my throat. You loose fingers when you try that.

I am a devout believer - never have tried to jam my religious beliefs down anyone's throat, have no bone to pick with athiests - you get the same treatment as everyone else - "love thy neighbor" as it were - but it seems to me that some folks on both sides of the issue love to rail against each other, so in that measure they are co-equal and guilty of the same stupidity they accuse each other of.... when somebody says or believes something I disagree with - I may discuss it with them reasonably but if that doesn't result in at least a agreement to disagree - I walk away - no need for essays on the subject or anger - so I can only assume that athiests who respond with anger and insults and BS media sound bites (as if it were their own personal experience of torture at the hands of a religious inquisition) and their equally enthusiastic religious opposition who do the same are obsessed in an unhealthy way and have personal issues that are masked and filtered by this obsession....so my advice (which is worth what you pay for it is get some therapy - and speaking from experience it really helps

reply to post by realshanti


Not all that effect from what I've seen so far. Some people seem to struggle with simple punctuation.

I don't have hidden issues, I have overt issues with the holy rollers who want to have one and only one book in schools, the BuyBull. Is that really hard to understand or are you just ignoring anything that doesn't agree with you?

Because it infringes on their own beliefs and religion...... Haha Chortle Chortle, get it......... Funny? Everyone believes in something, from people to deities, hell it could be the Pilsbury Dough Boy. Believe in what you will for your own reasons, just dont believe because someone told you to

reply to post by 667 The neighbour of the


"Everyone believes in something, from people to deities, hell it could be the Pilsbury Dough Boy."

Why is it that only believers say this? It doesn't make any sense, unless you have some means of MAKING me believe something. It actually is you wishing that your system is correct and requiring that everyone else conform to that system. And here, of all places, I thought conformity would not be a requirement.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by 667 The neighbour of the

 

"Everyone believes in something, from people to deities, hell it could be the Pilsbury Dough Boy."

Why is it that only believers say this? It doesn't make any sense, unless you have some means of MAKING me believe something. It actually is you wishing that your system is correct and requiring that everyone else conform to that system. And here, of all places, I thought conformity would not be a requirement.

The term "believe in" is being whored in this case. They say that instead of 'value' (like people, places or things) or 'know exists' (like gravity or the solar system).

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by chapter29
reply to post by Welfhard

 

Look, you put a good thread together, but for what..?


This seems to be more of a personal validation than an explanation...

We are the one's being persecuted, we don't apreciate being treated less than equal,

Atheists are not being persecuted...give me a personal example of how YOUR life has been affected by the religious right.

And I DO appreciate it when I'm treated less than equal by the other side - it reminds me that I am living in their head and not paying rent...

And let them take down the billboards and not drive the buses...it just brings more attention to the subject matter.


Toughen up man...

I agree, in most cases atheists are the agressive ones, always mocking thoses with a little faith. I have never mocked anyone for their beliefs however have seen scores of atheists do so all over these boards. To answer your question " Why do Atheists care about religion", the answer is because deep down then are really worried they made the wrong choice and try to fill that hole inside them with hatered of others that went down a different path.

Peace out and may god have mercy on you all

[edit on 15/4/09 by On the level]

reply to post by On the level

the answer is because deep down then are really worried they made the wrong choice and try to fill that hole inside them with hatered of others that went down a different path.

If you're not an atheist, you really can't know this. You wish they were worried deep down likely because you're doing that 'holier than thou' thing that believers do.

On the point though, everyone will worry about the choice they are making, this is in no way unique to atheist, but atheists will tend to see that a choice or concern purely out of fear is wrong.

reply to post by On the level


"I agree, in most cases atheists are the agressive ones, always mocking thoses with a little faith. I have never mocked anyone for their beliefs however have seen scores of atheists do so all over these boards. To answer your question " Why do Atheists care about religion", the answer is because deep down then are really worried they made the wrong choice and try to fill that hole inside them with hatered of others that went down a different path."

You really have things figured out. But, if I may, you have it totally wrong. As atheists will tell you if you bother to listen, we don't care about religion if it stays out of places it doesn't belong, like science class.

It seems to be a bigger issue in the states than it does in Britain; I was just answering the question posed at the start of the thread. Believe me I am not holy in anyway, I was brought up a catholic and haven’t been to mass in years, I think the church is one of the biggest hypocrisies in the world and believe it is behind a lot of the worlds ills. All I have is faith in a creator, I have faith in that there is something after this life, be it we are all energy or whatever. I mainly believe that there is a point to all of this. If you do not, then fine, it is up to you, I just feel sorry for you, probably in the way you feel sorry for me

reply to post by On the level

If you do not, then fine, it is up to you, I just feel sorry for you, probably in the way you feel sorry for me

You still are making poor assumptions about atheists. What did Wilde say?
"All generalisations are wrong. Even this one."

I know that Christianity has done good things for some people. I also know that it's been a tool used by people to create violence and discrimination for over a thousand years.

So yeah, what was it that you were saying about Atheists? Why do we care about religion so much? Because I tried the whole Christian thing, and it didn't work. I've read through the bible three times, cover to cover. And it isn't a reputable source of knowledge anymore than the Iliad, Oddysey, Beowulf, or any of those other ancient books. Why? Because those people had no idea how to explain abnormal things. I'm sure that your Jesus friend was a great teacher, just like Buddha was. Mohammed was also a great teacher. These guys were TEACHERS. They taught people stuff with the tools they had.

I'm sure that if science was established before these guys came around, religion would be different. I'm not talking about Creation vs. Evolution, don't let that be how you interpret this. I'm talking about the ideas of actual physical sciences. Some of that was new ideas by Jesus' time.

Anyway, It was said before that most 'Christians' don't even open the bible, but are habitually religious. I find that to be true in my experiences with people.

I'm Buddhist, so I can see it from both sides, being more agnostic by nature, accepting that anything is possible. Christians, even though I despise what much of your religious population has become, your religion has helped a great number of my friends.

Why do I care so much about religion? Because I know how many sheep there are in society. I know how many of them are willing to be led by the sheepdog who isn't doing what the farmer says.

Most of you have started to wake up, here on ATS, even many of us Atheists and Agnostics need to wake up. What I think really needs to happen though, is for people to start reading their bibles if that is their religion of choice, or find some of the texts of their religion and read them.

The battle here can only be won by understanding the enemy and their ways.

This has been an interesting read. I haven't read everything but I saw te paths all this took. This is a good sub even if nearly played out.

I personally consider myself to be agnostic. This doesn't mean that I am a member of any such group. I simply do not think that I can know the true nature of God, if indeed there is one.

I am not athiest. I just can't be sure on a level of "certainty" which is what I want.

I have met people who say they are athiest, and are positive that there is no God. Their explanations for mysterious events that we could attribute at least to the "Invisible Hand" , they seem to label coincidence. POssibly they are right.

Sometimes I think that the main reason that people claim atheis, is that there isn't enough evidence presented for them to even begin a belief about a diety.

I wonder if it isn't more simple than that. I would say that lack of evidence for a God as religion defines God, is not eveidence for the lack of existence of a God. What it is evidence of, for ONE of my opinions, is evidence that our assumptions about God are wrong.

you know... the anthromorphic view point.

The only thing that gives me conniptions are those people who claim to KNOW the will of God. They are all liars to me. They cannot prove to me that they know it. ANy answer they come up with that begs the further questin, is a wrong answer.

I also seem to detect that most christians, professing to be so, that go on these campaigns, are actually nonchristians. I haven't seen anywhere in that bible anything other than some idea of godhead telling his flock not to worry about things. That HE will take care of it. Be patient, etc.

No where does it say: Go thou out there and make them submit to my will...

So I just don't get it from that point of view.

Any of you guys read William James' "Pragmatism"?

He was religious, and he had his own "God" problems. But when it came to that ugly dynamic of Creationism Vs Evolution, he sort of called it a ridiculous and useless argument. He asked this: (paraphrased)

What is it about existence that the adding to or subtracting from it, a diety, makes it any better or worse than it is?

He went on to say, lightly, that if this is indeed the creation of an omnipotent being, then it is a very poor showing.

I sort of go along with that. So to me, nazism over that debate is a waste of energy.

reply to post by Welfhard


Ok I understand that many view christianity as being some sort of source for oppression or persecution, and when confronted with a persecuter it is only natural to speak or act out in opposition...

However it is not the religion, but the people that you should really have your quarrel with. Christianity, as a set of beliefs and guidelines to live by, and as a way one could attain everlasting life, could never hurt ANYONE. Much like Islam, as a belief system and a religion could never hurt anyone, or even like how a gun can't kill a man, only the person pulling the trigger kills.

You say that our leaders are mostly christian? Yeah maybe about as christian as the alcoholic who molests his daughter and beats his wife, yet still makes it to church every Sunday.

I too was once very angry and felt oppressed by a bunch of silly bible-thumpers, and was very anti-christian as a teenager. But really you can't fight the tools of oppression, only those who wield them.

Trying to convince the average church-goer that Jesus never existed, God is a lie, etc. etc. is not only a waste of time, but as the soul-purpose of doing so is to intentionally disrupt, provoke, and/or cause controversy, you look bad when compared to the Christians you insist are "forcing their beliefs down your throats", who are really only doing what they believe will save you. Wheither or not their wrong doesnt matter, their intentions are purer than yours. Are they really hurting you that much?

You are acting out against a percieved oppressor, who really is now in the minority in this country when compared to the mass of anti-christian messages being propagated by the real ruling religion of this country, nay the world; the mysteries. My opposition to the bible halted suddenly when i came to the realization that those in power are truly against it.

I see the beginnings of a Mob-mentality here, making scapegoats out of the "christian oppressors"

Hey lets go lynch all the christians! It's their fault everything is bad! If we get rid of them, things will be good!! RIGHT!?

I say christians should keep it to themselves, and so should atheists. But I suppose that idealistic notion is a bit detached from the reality of the situation...

reply to post by mostlyspoons

However it is not the religion, but the people that you should really have your quarrel with.

Am I not? I think the attitudes are wrong, when an individual assumes that they are right and therefore should have more say or power over other people and what other people can do, something has gone horribly, horribly wrong. Rights to privacy, freedom of thought, freedom of expression and freedom of religion is what being 'American' is supposed to all about. But the suggestion that the country should/is a Christian nation flies in the face of that.

The belief that some should have the say over Law and decency was no more apparent in the Proposition 8 controversy. In reality, people will love who ever they will love, but the prohibition of same-sex marriage tries to undo reality.

The people are often intolerant of humanities right to be, and I cannot tolerate that intolerance.

But on the flipside, the religion itself is not innocent either. What can be said of a dogma that motivates more hate than piece. Has been at the forefront of so much of histories senseless, inhumane bloodshed. Compare it to Buddhism or Wicca. Don't you see that there is something fundamentally wrong here?

I consider the Christian religion to be a destructive one, whose contribution to history and humanity leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel we would be better off without the negative influence, but that is not for me to decide, but the people. It should not be tolerated, the agenda to convert people, no matter how futile, against their freedom to choose. If fairness and freedom is not respected, what do we loose?

[edit on 16-4-2009 by Welfhard]

religion is a scourge across the land, causing endless war. that's why atheists care about it. this thread is retarded.

reply to post by akalepos


"I would say that lack of evidence for a God as religion defines God, is not eveidence for the lack of existence of a God"

So what, please, is your evidence for the existence of a god?

reply to post by lastxdance


Yet all of this is taken from a book written by mankind. Not written by said God and yet again open to interptretation. All i know is that if i was the Big guy/ Gal, lets be PC about this i'd be pretty peeved but then again i'm not infinitely patient. Haha

ALL THE WORLDS PROBLEMS won't magically go away if you take away religion!! All those wars, those attrocities you speak of committed at the hands of so called christians, had nothing to do with the bible!

The problem isn't the religions, but the way they are used to control people, thoughts, and actions. The failings of christian leaders to truly uphold the teachings of the bible instead of going on and on about the touchy-feely, "Jesus saves" or "God loves you" aspect to it, which really teaches people nothing.

In the Bible, Jesus was the ultimate rebel. He rebelled against the POLITICAL / RELIGIOUS corruption at the hands of the ELITE of his time. Jesus stood up for the righteous, the little guys. The bible is a book that attempts to unify mankind, under God, against the principalities of oppression and slavery, and to teach mankind to rise above his animalistic tendencies. That is the theme of the bible.

Religion isn't necessarily the basis for being anti gay marriage... Marriage is an age-old symbolic union between man and woman, where they symbolically become one. Male + female = marriage. Now if gays really want to be able to be married, that completely defeats the whole point of a man uniting as one with a woman. I don't see a problem with having a "gay union" or something to that effect, with all the legality of a marriage, but so as not to step on the toes of normal couples. If my terminology offends, i appologise but I don't believe in being PC.

Also I would like to note that I don't go to church, I don't read the bible regularly, and I was brought up as a catholic. As a young child I was kicked out of Sunday school for questioning the nuns, saying the video we had to watch where Adam and Eve ride dinosaurs and talk to animals was wrong, and for asking when we were going to learn something new I hadn't heard a million times before.

However I would gladly agree to the abolishment of secret societies

that includes "societies with secrets" as well