Why do Atheists care about religion?

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Of course, I have a problem with that...what ever makes you think I wouldn't?

I was refering to the context in which people, such as myself, of faith were called creeps by one member, and by you, if I recall correctly, as having an "imaginary freind".

One can have as good a grip on the reality of truth and be an aethiest/agnostic, as a person who has a belief in a Supreme Being. There is no one true path to enlightenment, and I've never claimed otherwise.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

Of course, I have a problem with that...what ever makes you think I wouldn't?

I was refering to the context in which people, such as myself, of faith were called creeps by one member, and by you, if I recall correctly, as having an "imaginary freind".

One can have as good a grip on the reality of truth and be an aethiest/agnostic, as a person who has a belief in a Supreme Being. There is no one true path to enlightenment, and I've never claimed otherwise.

You're scolding me because of personal beliefs, and letting the other person skate because of the same beliefs. Your bias is showing. When I'm doing duty as a staff person and my personal opinions may cloud my "professional" attitude, I let someone else handle the situation.

It's rather simple when/if you understand that gods are imaginary. All "truth" comes from human opinion. It's all subjective.

UFO: That is my point. There is no objective truth in atheism. There is no longer any reference point other than the strongest imposing their will on everyone else.

reply to post by ufoabduction

Atheism denies the relevance of the concept of truth

Wrong.

There is no one true path to the truth, only different ones. Who are you, or who am I, to lay claim to the "one true way"? We're all of us on a journey seeking the "truth", what matters the journey if we all arrive safely at the destination? Hmmm...

You see this is what causes the rucus. We're, all of us, so caught up in our surety that we know the true path, that we neglect to remember that there are always other paths to the answers we all seek.

There is no one true path to the truth, only different ones. Who are you, or who am I, to lay claim to the "one true way"? We're all of us on a journey seeking the "truth", what matters the journey if we all arrive safely at the destination? Hmmm...

UFO: How can you arrive at the truth if you begin by assuming a philosophy that does not allow it to exist?

Originally posted by ufoabduction
There is no one true path to the truth, only different ones. Who are you, or who am I, to lay claim to the "one true way"? We're all of us on a journey seeking the "truth", what matters the journey if we all arrive safely at the destination? Hmmm...

UFO: How can you arrive at the truth if you begin by assuming a philosophy that does not allow it to exist?

NOTHING in atheism denies the existence of truth. We just don't get it from the Great Sky Fairy. We get it from ourselves, from being decent human beings. To demonize us as amoral and untrustworthy is absurd.

Let's try this another way.

How would the Christians enjoy Muslim Sharia law to be enacted?

If these laws are based on religious conviction, and only those who have faith may determine the basis of truth, then logically the Islamic Sharia should be embraced as truth, correct?

The Muslims have just as much right to believe what they believe as the Christians have to believe what they believe, right? If truth requires a deity, then why would one prove more truthful than another? If there is "one true god" (which both religions claim) then logically this must be the same god. So the laws of one religion must be true to both.

If you are a Christian, and would strongly object to laws influenced by the teachings of the Koran, you should also object to laws influenced by the Bible.

reply to post by RoughKut

Honestly, I'm not here to convince you God exists, but just consider all the options. Stop looking for a genie to do tricks.

And why not ?The bibles promise a genie that does tricks, when the apologists fail to produce the goods the same old excuse for their imaginary friends are made.

As far as I'm aware to this day not once has the jesusgod healed an amputee, either the bible lies or he lied if he was not imaginary.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


You've got my quote down there as being from UFO. Just so you know.

...and my quote agrees with your take on the issue. Just so you know.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by ufoabduction
There is no one true path to the truth, only different ones. Who are you, or who am I, to lay claim to the "one true way"? We're all of us on a journey seeking the "truth", what matters the journey if we all arrive safely at the destination? Hmmm...

UFO: How can you arrive at the truth if you begin by assuming a philosophy that does not allow it to exist?

NOTHING in atheism denies the existence of truth. We just don't get it from the Great Sky Fairy. We get it from ourselves, from being decent human beings. To demonize us as amoral and untrustworthy is absurd.

atheism is based on logic and scientific method - experiments which can be repeated over and over in similar conditions.

religion is based on some guy (or more recently gal too) who considers him/herself to be the personal emissary of an invisible being and has the right to impose whatever he thinks god wants onto others. and all that god wants is money and hating those who don't believe in god - at least according to his emissaries. how is this any different than muslims who (some say) want to kill all those who don't convert to their religion?

ZILLA: NOTHING in atheism denies the existence of truth. We just don't get it from the Great Sky Fairy. We get it from ourselves, from being decent human beings. To demonize us as amoral and untrustworthy is absurd.

UFO: There is no content to atheism. It has no meaning whatever because it has no objective reference point. You are not being demonized when it is pointed out that your philosophy has no meaning. You are simply confused about reality, and are not wanting to know it.

Originally posted by ufoabduction
ZILLA: NOTHING in atheism denies the existence of truth. We just don't get it from the Great Sky Fairy. We get it from ourselves, from being decent human beings. To demonize us as amoral and untrustworthy is absurd.

UFO: There is no content to atheism. It has no meaning whatever because it has no objective reference point. You are not being demonized when it is pointed out that your philosophy has no meaning. You are simply confused about reality, and are not wanting to know it.

Lovely. So 17% of the United States have no moral basis? I don't have any moral basis? You require something outside yourself to project a moral system onto you because . . . Well, why do you need an outside source for a moral system?

atheism is based on logic and scientific method - experiments which can be repeated over and over in similar conditions.

UFO: It is not your logic that is faulty; it is your beginning point. You are assuming that human perception is ultimate reality. Magicians make a good living showing how limited human perception really is.

reply to post by ufoabduction


The magicians that turn wine into blood and cookies into dead Jews don't play games with reality? The Great Sky Fairy is related to reality in what fashion, please?

ZILLA: Lovely. So 17% of the United States have no moral basis? I don't have any moral basis? You require something outside yourself to project a moral system onto you because . . . Well, why do you need an outside source for a moral system?

UFO: Any moral basis must be imported from outside atheism. Atheism has no content to provide a morality. Ask the Jews who went through the Nazi death camps why the Nazis needed an outside source for morality rather than depending on Nazi morality.

Originally posted by ufoabduction
UFO: Any moral basis must be imported from outside atheism. Atheism has no content to provide a morality. Ask the Jews who went through the Nazi death camps why the Nazis needed an outside source for morality rather than depending on Nazi morality.

Lovely that you mention the Nazis. Their belt buckles all said "Gott mitt uns." "God is with us." Vastly more moral than any atheist, is it?

And WHY does any moral basis need to be imported from outside atheism? Atheism isn't a crutch, like religion, it's a freedom from crutches, the ability to walk on your own. I don't need the threats of the Great Sky Fairy to keep me decent, but apparently religious people do.

ZILLA: The magicians that turn wine into blood and cookies into dead Jews don't play games with reality? The Great Sky Fairy is related to reality in what fashion, please?

UFO: I don't think I understand your metaphor. This is the problem in discussions with atheists; truth is irrelevant. The issue is that atheism has no possible objective connection with reality, so I guess you are being consistent.

reply to post by ufoabduction


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Originally posted by ufoabduction
UFO: I don't think I understand your metaphor. This is the problem in discussions with atheists; truth is irrelevant. The issue is that atheism has no possible objective connection with reality, so I guess you are being consistent.

You are just repeating bigoted stereotypes, like "Jews killed Jesus", or "the Moslems are all Pedos", or "Catholics all take their orders from Rome." This is your morality? This is why religion worries atheists. Some religious people have no problem lying for Jesus.

Originally posted by ufoabduction How can you arrive at the truth if you begin by assuming a philosophy that does not allow it to exist?

Aethism holds that "truth" is to be found within all of us, and that it is subjective. I have no issue with that, I come to the same conclusion, just my source is different. That doesn't make them evil, or us some sort of uberman...just different 'tis all.

We're getting worked up over what is essentially a difference in the outlooks we have about life. There is no one true way, Christ himself is said to have said much the same thing. "There are many houses in my Father's mansion, if it were not so, would I not have told you." I may be paraphrasing here, but the jist of it is...if it's good enough for Christ, who am I to quibble over how people come to the truth?