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Who's REALLY to Blame for the Subprime Mess?

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posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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Who's REALLY to Blame for the Subprime Mess?


foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com

And don’t forget the pressure the Department of Housing and Urban Development placed on lenders once the Clinton administration expanded the terms of the Community Reinvestment Act.

All this has been swept under the proverbial rug while busloads of MoveOn.org activists travel through exclusive neighborhoods in Fairfield County, Connecticut looking for people who got bonuses from AIG, bonuses that the Obama administration and the Democrats who control the Congress originally said it was okay
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.kitco.com
www.forbes.com
www.meridianmagazine.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
The Government Did It (caused this financial crisis/ bailout)




posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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OMG! A reporter, Peter Roff, is actually looking into the cause of the subprime debacle! Refreshing indeed! While the Obama administration is blaming Bush, blaming high paid CEOs, blaming the high costs of health care, blaming carbon emissions, the cause of the economic crisis APPEARS to be big government itself! Surprise, surprise, Obama administration officials were even a part of it! Tusk, tusk! And we thought Obama was as pure as the wind driven snow!

Can we now expect our annoited leader to do some do some research like Mr. Roff did and get to the bottom of this mystery? (don't hold your breath?!) The blame game is so much easier and more effective when he's trying to return us to Socialism and keep Democrats in power forever!

foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 08:40 PM
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Biased blogs are news now?


Anyway, they all have it wrong.

Ross Perot years ago talked about a "giant sucking sound" but little did he know that it was only the beginning of a long intake so that one day the winds of change could blow.

They have and it both blows and sucks.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by Walkswithfish
 





Anyway, they all have it wrong. Ross Perot years ago talked about a "giant sucking sound" but little did he know that it was only the beginning of a long intake so that one day the winds of change could blow.


Please explain how the financial crisis is due to Ross Perot's giant sucking sound but not related to CRA, The Home Loan Secondary Marketing Program, the Clinton Admisistration, HUD, Fannie, Fredie, AIG, Franks, Dodds, Obama etc. ! I'd love to hear it!



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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Greedy people, incompetent legislation, incompetent oversight, voters, Republicans, Democrats, Corporations, stock market, lying buyers, lying mortgage companies.. IMO it is a combination of things and people that are to blame for the mess.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 





Greedy people, incompetent legislation, incompetent oversight, voters, Republicans, Democrats, Corporations, stock market, lying buyers, lying mortgage companies.. IMO it is a combination of things and people that are to blame for the mess.


Peter Roff's point and I agree that it isn't as complicated as the media and Obama make it out to be. And it isn't:




The focus of blame for the mess we are in remains on the Bush administration, A.I.G., Lehman Brothers and greedy CEOs.


As our hero Obama(and much of the liberal media) would like us to believe!



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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I would say this whole mess with the government is OUR fault. Me, you, and every person in this country old enough to vote. If we dont all band together, start a new political party, and find some people with integrity to run for office then we have no one to blame but ourselves. We need to demand more from our politicians and our fellow citizens. We need to stop voting for our selfish interests and start voting for the good of the country. We need to demand that every government we have a vote in comes up with a plan to shrink their size and spending by 25% within the next 6 months. Then they have 1 year after the plan is complete to implement it, with some measurable set amount of progress recorded every 3 months during that year.

We also must create an amendment to the constitution that
1. Caps the total amount of tax that any citizen, business, corporation, etc. pays cannot exceed 20% of their income. This includes all taxes... Sales taxes, fed taxes, futa, fica, suta, medicare, state, property, county, and local.
2 Within 2 years they must balance the budget of every form of government: federal, state, county, local, and property taxes.
3. They can never again have an unbalanced budget nor can they borrow any more money past the short term of 6 months, and the total amount of borrowing cant exceed 10% of their total yearly budget. No more bonds, nothing.

Then maybe they will learn to make the hard choices their citizens make every day. Things like do I buy food or pay the electric bill. They can decide do I need to build a new sports stadium or do I need to have a fire department.

[edit on 10-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]



posted on Apr, 11 2009 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by plumranch
 


www.sonosphere.com...
upload.wikimedia.org...

There are two different theories to how the housing bubble started. Many on the right side of the ideological plain claimed it to be Clintons fault in that his tax break legislation was made into law in 1997. By this in the new legislation owners selling their homes will need not pay capital-gains taxes on profits up to $500,000. The aim which Clinton and many others, both conservative and liberal, claimed would assist with the middle class and help more families settle into a home. It should be noted however that this legislation passed through the republican majority congress in 1997 with a majority vote. In addition most economists actually disagree that it was that piece of law contributed any significance to the crises we face now:


Economists say the break didn’t cause the bubble, but creating tax-free windfalls alongside low interest rates and lax lending standards cultivated an environment ripe for over-speculation—with one study finding the tax cut alone increased sales 17% from 1997-2007.

www.newser.com...

In my opinion the housing tax gains break did ignite the fire that started the housing crises, however, the majority republican congress at the time backed the idea and both sides during the Clinton administration failed to act. In addition after multiple warnings the Bush administration instead decided to further deregulate the market and allowed the legislation to go on. That was just the start of the housing boom.

On of the first warnings for the pending collapse of the housing bubble came from Federal Reserve governor Edward Gramlich who was appointed by Clinton to the position in 1997. However when he first warned of the crises Greenspan and the majority in congress and the Bush administration at the time scoffed at the claim.
www.nytimes.com...


Mr. Greenspan and other Fed officials repeatedly dismissed warnings about a speculative bubble in housing prices. In December 2004, the New York Fed issued a report bluntly declaring that “no bubble exists.” Mr. Greenspan predicted several times — incorrectly, it turned out — that housing declines would be local but almost certainly not nationwide.


Evidently though within the first term of the Bush administration there was no intention of further regulating anything, in fact Bush and his cronies decided to bring forth more deregulation to the marketings, starting with lifting restrictions, particularly those in the energy industry and further took down certain laws they saw as politically pointless.


With the support of Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, President Bush pushed through a tax cut designed to benefit the richest Americans but not to lift the economy out of the recession that followed the collapse of the Internet bubble. Given that mistake, the Fed had little choice if it was to fulfill its mandate to maintain growth and employment: It had to lower interest rates, which it did in an unprecedented way -- all the way down to 1 percent.

www.realclearpolitics.com...

So Clinton came up with the Capital gains tax, the starter to the housing growth but it was passed by the republican majority in congress at the time and most economists agree that we cannot blame that single legislation over the entire housing crises. The housing bubble began to shot up in 2001 with the start to Bushes term as president and he did nothing despite the warnings, infact he continued to deregulate.

Get off the faux news blogs man. Its clouding up your judgement.

[edit on 11-4-2009 by Southern Guardian]



posted on Apr, 11 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
I would say this whole mess with the government is OUR fault.


Actually yes half of this mess in the economy is our fault. We elected these folks over the last 8years prior to this crises taking shape, we as a people. We spent beyond our means. I shake my head sometimes that not only do people on here go onto misleading blogs to get their information, but also they just love scapegoating certain individuals. This mess lies on our laps as well.



posted on Apr, 11 2009 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by Walkswithfish
 


You must not have been here for the election. It's always biased blog news with these guys.



posted on Apr, 11 2009 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by plumranch

Who's REALLY to Blame for the Subprime Mess?




Well, you can't leave out Henry Paulson!

Henry Paulson


The 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, however, put the parent holding company of each of the big American brokerages beyond SEC oversight. In order for the agreement to go ahead, the investment banks lobbied for a decision that would allow "voluntary" inspection of their parent and subsidiary holdings by the SEC.

During this repeal of the net capital rule, SEC Chairman William H. Donaldson agreed to the establishment of a risk management office that would monitor signs of future problems. This office was eventually dismantled by Chairman Christopher Cox, after discussions with Paulson.


He wasn't the cause of ALL of it, but he sure helped and I'm sure sure he's sitting pretty in some million $$ plus home and not suffering any financial problems like the rest of us!!!

[edit on 4/11/2009 by Keyhole]



posted on Apr, 11 2009 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by Keyhole
 





The 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, however, put the parent holding company of each of the big American brokerages beyond SEC oversight.


Perhaps Paulson had a hand, however, one of the little recognized effects of GL
B was that the Community Reinvestmen Act or CRA was greatly strengthened (a requirement by Bill Clinton) so that all banks were required to participate in CRA loans to lower income (read non qualifying) buyers. Surprisingly, Barack Obama agreed that GLB was indeed was a culprit in the subprime debacle!

Barack, of course, knew this to be true because in his post law school years he worked for ACORN sueing banks to make them give loans to otherwise non qualifying (low income) buyers!



posted on Apr, 11 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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reply to post by plumranch
 


That's not factual as far as I am aware. He worked as a lawyer for ACORN to make sure there was no discrimination from banks as to who they lent to. Unless you are equating the two?



posted on Apr, 11 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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Many on the right side of the ideological plain claimed it to be Clintons fault in that his tax break legislation was made into law in 1997. By this in the new legislation owners selling their homes will need not pay capital-gains taxes on profits up to $500,000.
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 

I disagree that conservatives blamed that particular law passed when Clinton was in office. It was enacted by a Congress with a Republican majority with bipartisan support. The bill solved many problems landowners had such as passing on businesses and homes to close relatives and not loosing them to government taxation.

I wasn't aware that it supposedly contributed to the housing bubble but it makes sense.

My main concern is the financial collapse which was caused by mortgage backed securities that were insured and then called triple A rated "derivatives". They contained the mortgages that became valueless when low income home owners defaulted. I suppose the question is why did the government allow (or encourage) unqualified buyers to sign for the mortgages in the first place?

It seems to me that Katrina had as much or more to do with the collapse than the 1997 tax law??



posted on Apr, 11 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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Reply to Irish Mick:


That's not factual as far as I am aware. He worked as a lawyer for ACORN to make sure there was no discrimination from banks as to who they lent to. Unless you are equating the two?



Your wording is more like putting perfume on the pig. If you or anyone knows what exactly Barack did as a lawyer, street activist, that needs to be disclosed.

Perhaps you also "know" where exactly he was born. If you say Hawaii then I know a dead grandmother that claimed otherwise.

Barack's life remains an enigma.

But to not upset you sensibilities regarding Barack let me put it this way: Barack was probably in a pretty good position to know as an ACORN lawyer whether or not Gramm-Leach-Bliley 1999 contributed to the subprime collapse.

[edit on 11/4/09 by plumranch]



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 02:14 PM
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So it is important that people be reminded of the facts. And Congress needs to look into the whole sorry mess, and in a way that is designed to get at the truth, not shield the wrongdoers. They could begin by looking at the establishment, in 1994, of the Home Loan Secondary Market Program by a group called the Self-Help Credit Union.


The author, Peter Roff, thinks the HLSMP program got the ball rolling in the subprime loan business and after that it was off to the races.

Iwould like to give credit where credit is due. My guess is that somebody like Barney Frank or Chris Dodds came up with this test program to see if the banking industry would fall for the subprime mortgages. But I can't seem to trace back the origin of the program. If we can trace it back we may get to the bottom of this debacle.

Anyone have some information on HLSMP? It didn't just appear out of thin air. Somebody authorized it!?

Help needed!




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