First Tobacco ... Now Soft Drinks ...

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


My opinion

why should anybody have to respect anything in an anarchy? it's an anarchy!!!

You see thats risk associated with freedom is that you will have to deal with psychotics but freedom ain't free people.

Why do we need law? so people can tell other people what to do!! and when governments can break their own laws at anytime! why even bother?

anyway thats my opinion and don't expect anybody to agree but then again I don't care.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

In other words, yours is the view that is one sided.

What makes you think you know better than others what is or is not in their best interests?

Not at all... I believe in democracy where everyone has a say.

What is one sided is assuming that the result isn't the will of the American People.

If you disagree with these types of bills, then by all means write your congressmen as well. If Schrodinger would have left it at "I disagree with these bills... and wish those voting for it would stop!", then that's fine... it's not a one sided view. It states his opinion and what he would like done about it, but it also recognizes, that there are other Americans, just like him, who are FOR this bill.

His original Statement just left out any possibility that this was the will of the American People. And I'm tired of having my views marginalized as "Big Bad Gov". As if I'm not out here voting for things too... just because they are different from what you believe is right, doesn't make them any less a voice of the American People.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR

Yes, we need law. What we don't need is an oligarchy of power hungry, extremely wealthy eugenicists dictating not only how they are going to spend my money on the behalf of the irresponsibilities of another, but to cover that irresponsibility they are going to tax me so the system doesn't fail because of it.

Ok... I am neither part of the Oligarchy, nor am I any more power hungry than the other American People. I am not a wealthy eugenicist who is dictating anything.

I am a voter who believes that a food supply saturated with unhealthy foods is a bad thing, and the best way to change it is to democratically petition my lawmakers to put a tax on it, so as to remove the economic incentives to consume it. And to be able to offset the medicare costs of diabetics with this money.

Please stop assuming it's a bunch of evil people... it's just people like me.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Instead of lawmakers making laws and calling it the will of the people, why not put it to a vote so that voter's voices could actually be heard?

reply to post by skeptic1


That's the point of representational government. Is that referendums on everything just doesn't scale.

I agree, that is the most purest form of democracy, but it just doesn't scale for everything.

The beauty is, that if enough people don't like it... they can change it locally.

States and Cities are broke folks, and they don't care if you are too. It is that simple. Everything is being taxed more. In CA, cig and sales tax just went up, and both are going up again later this year. I believe we will be at 10% sales tax by years end with smokes at $9-10 per pack. They are also instituting a new, and specific tax, on wine (that one is hitting me where it hurts) a major export for our state, but we will pay more for it than someone in Ohio.

The parking police are out in force and ticket costs are going up. The cops are seemingly spending a lot more of thier time ticketing for minor driving infractions. They are at the end of my street everyday now waiting for the law breaking "No Left Turner's".

Such is life when an economy crumbles.

Pretty soon they'll be taxing us for all the free chemicals now found in our drinking water...no more free psych meds, birth control, illegal drugs and the other substances we find in our water supplies.

My Opinion

I'm just a voter who believes in making crazy laws for anything I detest!!!!! I don't like freedom so lets tax the heck out of everything yay.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
What is one sided is assuming that the result isn't the will of the American People.

If you disagree with these types of bills, then by all means write your congressmen as well. If Schrodinger would have left it at "I disagree with these bills... and wish those voting for it would stop!", then that's fine... it's not a one sided view. It states his opinion and what he would like done about it, but it also recognizes, that there are other Americans, just like him, who are FOR this bill.

You keep harping on this point for some reason that escapes me.

I never contested that there may be people who support this bill nor did I marginalize those who do. This is a stone you choose to bear for your own reasons but it surely it is not as a result of anything I said in my OP.

What you fail to grasp is that this conversation isn't about soft drinks, tobacco, sugar, or even health itself.

You are truly missing the forest for the trees.

Originally posted by AccessDenied
So, the tax money goes to what?
Increased awareness of obesity and health problems?
Health care?
How about to the farmers who grow food that is actually good for us?
Don't tell me you are raising the price of something because it's bad for me and you want me to make healthier choices when Milk, and Juice costs DOUBLE THE PRICE for 2 litres.
I won't stop buying it.

THAT right there is what really eats at me. The fact that a gallon of milk costs more than a cheap 3 litre (2.50+ for milk, 99 freakin' CENTS for a 3 litre). Yet they expect us to buy healthy, pfft... Yeah right, that's like asking a junkfood junkie if they would rather have the salad for 2 bucks or the double cheesburger for 99 cents.

Chrono

reply to post by schrodingers dog


This is about government taxing whatever they want whenever they want simply because they can and because they think they know better than the rest of the populance.

This is about the fact that Americans these days are so distracted or lazy or complacent that they leave the same people in power for years on end until there is no way to get them out.

This is about the fact that Americans are getting screwed left and right.

Originally posted by SemperParatusRJCC
None of this makes any sense. Why are they going to tax soda. Can't I enjoy anything without it getting taxed to hell. First Jack Daniels, Then Marlboros, now soda. I work for the military. So I don't make nearly enough for all these taxes.

How typical. The people that work the hardest, take the biggest risks, get paid the least and get screwed the most. I like the way our country honors it's soldiers (SARCASM).

Geez people, what the hell did you think was going to happen when you elected a majority of Democrats to Congress??? Does history mean nothing to you?

Democrats impose and RAISE taxes when they are elected to office. They always have! This should come as NO SURPRISE to anyone!

If you elected Democrats to Congress then you guys brought this upon yourselves. Personally I don't agree with the tax on tobacco or soft drinks but dammit people YOU DID THIS! Quit blaming those politicians who do this every single time and take some damn responsibility for the way you voted!

[edit on 10-4-2009 by sos37]

Originally posted by sos37
Personally I don't agree with the tax on tobacco or soft drinks but dammit people YOU DID THIS! Quit blaming those politicians who do this every single time and take some damn responsibility for the way you voted!

*sigh*

So you think politicians run this country?

what i am so befuddled at about this is that the government has so many problems with torture and violence and all of those horrible problems and they are concentrating on reducing soda pop consumption in our country. its pathetic that people could care about those things when people are dying. period.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
On the heels of the American public being hit with a massive tobacco tax increase, we now have this:

....NEWS....

For all those amongst us that thought that outrageous tobacco taxes ware a good idea principally because you didn't smoke, allow me to introduce you to the chickens knocking at your door, I believe it is roosting season.

What does this mean?

It means that we are being programmed to accept to pay more for things that the government deems "not good" for us.

And before you say, well it's only one cent per can, what difference does it make? Let me remind you that tobacco taxes were also at first very low.

Once this process begins there surely is no end to it.

Think off all the other products that could be taxed in such a fashion under this shaky premise, really, think about it.

Also think about the fact that they're not talking about taxing aspartame which likely causes a lot more harm than sugar.

We are looking forward to the government legislating all our choices for us.

Smokers and drinkers knew it first, now the rest will know.

[edit on 9 Apr 2009 by schrodingers dog]

If "they" are going to raise taxes on items that are potentially hazardous to consume, "they" need to lower taxes for items that are known to be "good for us"... [or prices, in the case of unprepared produce and some other food, which (at least in Texas), are not taxed]

"Healthy stuff" should be more affordable...

Making EVERYTHING more expensive than it is now is a terrible idea... hell... there's a money crisis for a lot of people at the moment...

McDonald's is doing great right now mostly because it's cheaper than other busy-family-convenient alternatives... Throw us a bone authorities!!

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by sos37
Personally I don't agree with the tax on tobacco or soft drinks but dammit people YOU DID THIS! Quit blaming those politicians who do this every single time and take some damn responsibility for the way you voted!

*sigh*

So you think politicians run this country?

Boy is THAT a trick question. I believe that politicians vote laws into power. Is that not what this would be?

Originally posted by Harlowe JNkinz
If "they" are going to raise taxes on items that are potentially hazardous to consume, "they" need to lower taxes for items that are known to be "good for us"...

What you say makes sense but I still have to disagree.

For me the issue is one of who should be empowered to make such decisions, us or "them?" And before one answers that questions one must ask themselves if we can trust them to a. make such decisions for us for the right and declared reasons and b. if they even have the knowledge or qualifications to make such decisions.

Thus the problem for me isn't tax the bad and un-tax the good.

It is that whomever is making those decisions is using health improvement as a red herring to the populace in order to appease whichever interest group they are lubricating that day.

Also, health awareness is a fluid thing, what we know today we didn't know yesterday and we will know something different tomorrow. However taxation is a mostly static thing, thus as they are fully aware, once implemented it is almost never reversed.

[edit on 10 Apr 2009 by schrodingers dog]

Put a tax on stupidity and make everyone take an IQ test!
That oughta pay some serious bills!

I have to agree that I think these overly sugar loaded drinks are evil. I restrict my daughter's consumption of these beverages as much as possible.

Then again this effort to control people's behavior through taxation is an extremely slippery slope to be sliding down. Looks like the CWO has us right where they want us. It seems we are all too busy reacting, and not doing enough acting to move in the right direction.

I say we all need shorter work hours so that we can spend more time preparing ourselves and our children healthy foods and leading them towards healthier lifestyles, and less time caught in traffic and playing corporate games so that we are not so hooked on fast foods. Time to develop a new transportation system that allows us to spend the time we are caught in traffic running the rat maze, doing more productive things. We need a system where are all not so subject to the whims of traffic cops looking to hammer us for any mistakes, and the same goes for our banking systems.