Originally posted by OmegaPoint
If you take the position that the Roman Empire never really ended, but simply morphed into the Roman Catholic Church, with senators becoming cardinals, then how does history square with that?

If you take that position you are at odds with the overwhelming majority of historians.

And in so many areas of history resides the hidden hand of the Jesuits,

examples?

the military arm of the RCC.

The Society of Jesus is not a military order

Ah but the things within are at the most fundamental level, a public affair. Since the outer is a reflection of the inner, we may as well be projecting our innermost thoughts up onto a cosmic screen for all to see, and perhaps that is indeed what happens. And besides I am already the light of the world, so I don't need to become a Mason, and I'd be lying from my first knock at the door that I am coming from darkness to light.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
And besides I am already the light of the world, so I don't need to become a Mason, and I'd be lying from my first knock at the door that I am coming from darkness to light.

wow, someone here doesn't think too much of himself now does he? Am I to assume that I am lucky enough to be conversing with the second coming of Jesus Christ?

It's Jesus who said that we are the light of the world, and in a way, for those who are in Christ with Christ in them, in a certain sense, yes we are the second coming, and we are one in the spirit. If I am to presume that the work of Jesus was effective, then the barrier of seperation has been removed, and God makes his home in us.

If the fullness of the Lord in me? Not yet.. but like anyone else I too am a work in progress, and it's the type of work which God will complete in me, so you could say that I'm the second coming to be.

Surely this is what was intended through the work of Jesus Christ.

"And as my father hath send me, even so send I you."

Oh dear, I just started smoking again, after successfully quitting for six weeks and in my mind, that's too synchronistic for comfort.

I personally think that the relationship between the Catholic Church and modern Freemasonry is in one of the following directions:

First, the Catholic Church publicly denounces and forbids the Catholic laity from joining Freemasonry. They also denounce homosexuality as well.

Yet the Catholic Church hierarchy has a major problem - and has had for many decades - with homosexuals in their celibate priestly ranks, as well as major issues with child sex abuse.

These are well-known, well documented public facts about the Church, and one that causes many devout Catholics consternation over these issues ("Am I supporting an evil institution engaged in child abuse?" etc.).

Remember, however, that the Catholic Church is huge. It is a massive religious organization. I cannot tell you with any certainty as to whether the child abuse statistics for the Church are comparable to other churches, schools, etc. But child abuse is, most definitely, a well known problem that the Church has been trying to rectify and take proactive action to address.

Secondly, there are rumors - via Fr. Malachi Martin I believe - that the upper echelon in the Catholic Church hierarchy is replete with Freemasons at the Cardinal level. Whether this is true or not, I have no supporting documentation nor evidence to provide.

Like all global institutions, there are major political factors involved. I think that the edicts against Freemasonry are historical in nature, and frankly, a major power play by the papal authority to condemn threats to the Church's power structure.

I think it's politics pure and simple. Here is a generally secretive fraternal organization that could supersede the Church's authority by its power and influence, as well as its notoriety for attracting politicians, businessmen, etc.

Now, the question that I have is this: Why doesn't the Church condemn other fraternal organizations? Why just Masonry? What makes Masonry so special? Why not condemn Rotary International, Scientology, the Church of Latter Day Saints, etc.?

I do honestly believe that all of the major power brokers on the world stage are very familiar with Masonic ritual. You don't get to a very high level of authority and power in this world without having some kind of ties to the fraternity in some shape or fashion - consciously or unconsciously.

I also believe that many priests have studied Masonic ritual as well. In fact, the whole concept of Masonry centers on King Solomon - a Biblical king that many priests would have studied about during their seminary years.

Where does Freemasonry fit in? If it does at all, it is aligned at the top levels of the Catholic Church. I think you have to consider power structures and power politics when looking at this situation. The Catholic Church - for all the good it does in the world - has a long, long history of power politics on the world stage.

One the one hand, they denounce Masonry because they recognize its inherent power and secrecy as a tool of revolutionaries (think the Founding Fathers, the French Revolution, etc.).

On the other hand, they embrace it at the top levels to try to control it and influence it. They turn a blind eye to the top leadership at the Vatican that may engage in Masonic ritual.

For the laity, one set of rules. For the Church hierarchy, a whole other set of rules. Hypocrisy? Yes. But the point is not to be a hypocrite. The points is to have ultimate power and ultimate control over as much of the population as possible.