The Catholic Church and Freemasonry

If you take that position you are at odds with the overwhelming majority of historians.



examples?



The Society of Jesus is not a military order

The Society of Jesus (Jesuits)

www.alphathruomega.com...

I'm not sure if you read that whole page, but practically nothing written there is true. The oath is fake (many believe it was created by the Ku Klux Klan, who were anti-Catholic), and the claim that the Jesuits are "military" is laughable.

There are ex Jesuits who affirm that that oath is authentic.

Here's some more on the vast reach and influence of the Vatican

Movers and Shakers of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta
letsrollforums.com...

And I hope no one is going to suggest that there is no connection or tie between the Society of Jesus and the SMOM.

reply to post by OmegaPoint

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Sure, why not? You've been wrong in every other assertion you've made here, so I feel quite safe in saying "there is no connection or tie between the Society of Jesus and the SMOM."

reply to post by OmegaPoint

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We don't spy you behind your closed doors, why would you not do the same.
Privacy rights, guaranteeing an individual's right to a private life.

If you are really interested in Masonry, why not just, ask12b1

Ah but the things within are at the most fundamental level, a public affair. Since the outer is a reflection of the inner, we may as well be projecting our innermost thoughts up onto a cosmic screen for all to see, and perhaps that is indeed what happens. And besides I am already the light of the world, so I don't need to become a Mason, and I'd be lying from my first knock at the door that I am coming from darkness to light.

reply to post by Brothers in Arms

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Privacy rights, is for individuals' private life, not for organisations of men
who get together in secrecy. We don't want to know about masons' private life
at home with their family but only at their temples, when masons get together.


if your doors are not open for everyone to see, for each and every time...
you get together, ( not only once or twice a year ) imo, it could only prove,
that masonry have something to hide and is a hideout for conspirators.

wow, someone here doesn't think too much of himself now does he? Am I to assume that I am lucky enough to be conversing with the second coming of Jesus Christ?

reply to post by network dude

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Nice try dude, but this one was a Foul ball
i think it was kind of obvious, that, OmegaPoint was sarcastic...

reply to post by NoMoreTyranny

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I would hate to miss an oportunituy to chat with such a well known figure. Perhaps I was so caught up in my own sarcasm, I failed to see the other.

It's Jesus who said that we are the light of the world, and in a way, for those who are in Christ with Christ in them, in a certain sense, yes we are the second coming, and we are one in the spirit. If I am to presume that the work of Jesus was effective, then the barrier of seperation has been removed, and God makes his home in us.

If the fullness of the Lord in me? Not yet.. but like anyone else I too am a work in progress, and it's the type of work which God will complete in me, so you could say that I'm the second coming to be.

Surely this is what was intended through the work of Jesus Christ.

"And as my father hath send me, even so send I you."

Hi everyone, first time poster here, so please forgive me if this is not exactly on topic. But as I was reading through the posts I was reminded immediately of a quote by Pope Paul VI it reads

It is as if from some mysterious crack, no, it is not mysterious, from some crack the smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God.


I have searched for the explanation of it, and to no avail have I found anything that would cast it aside. I've heard that it was part of a homily, or part of a larger quote, but the rest of the test I can not find.

It is also interesting to note, that SOME Catholics, mainly I would say sedevacantists, believe that there was often a "subsitute" for Paul VI at various engagements I believe after 1972 or 74.

Peace

I looked around some more it appears that yes it is predominately either various anti Catholic sites or sedevacantists. I did find this though, www.catholicculture.org... which appears to be the "official" RCC stance on the matter offered in May of 2008.

[edit on 24-4-2009 by searching4truth]

[edit on 24-4-2009 by searching4truth]

Oh dear, I just started smoking again, after successfully quitting for six weeks and in my mind, that's too synchronistic for comfort.

I personally think that the relationship between the Catholic Church and modern Freemasonry is in one of the following directions:

First, the Catholic Church publicly denounces and forbids the Catholic laity from joining Freemasonry. They also denounce homosexuality as well.

Yet the Catholic Church hierarchy has a major problem - and has had for many decades - with homosexuals in their celibate priestly ranks, as well as major issues with child sex abuse.

These are well-known, well documented public facts about the Church, and one that causes many devout Catholics consternation over these issues ("Am I supporting an evil institution engaged in child abuse?" etc.).

Remember, however, that the Catholic Church is huge. It is a massive religious organization. I cannot tell you with any certainty as to whether the child abuse statistics for the Church are comparable to other churches, schools, etc. But child abuse is, most definitely, a well known problem that the Church has been trying to rectify and take proactive action to address.

Secondly, there are rumors - via Fr. Malachi Martin I believe - that the upper echelon in the Catholic Church hierarchy is replete with Freemasons at the Cardinal level. Whether this is true or not, I have no supporting documentation nor evidence to provide.

Like all global institutions, there are major political factors involved. I think that the edicts against Freemasonry are historical in nature, and frankly, a major power play by the papal authority to condemn threats to the Church's power structure.

I think it's politics pure and simple. Here is a generally secretive fraternal organization that could supersede the Church's authority by its power and influence, as well as its notoriety for attracting politicians, businessmen, etc.

Now, the question that I have is this: Why doesn't the Church condemn other fraternal organizations? Why just Masonry? What makes Masonry so special? Why not condemn Rotary International, Scientology, the Church of Latter Day Saints, etc.?

I do honestly believe that all of the major power brokers on the world stage are very familiar with Masonic ritual. You don't get to a very high level of authority and power in this world without having some kind of ties to the fraternity in some shape or fashion - consciously or unconsciously.

I also believe that many priests have studied Masonic ritual as well. In fact, the whole concept of Masonry centers on King Solomon - a Biblical king that many priests would have studied about during their seminary years.

Where does Freemasonry fit in? If it does at all, it is aligned at the top levels of the Catholic Church. I think you have to consider power structures and power politics when looking at this situation. The Catholic Church - for all the good it does in the world - has a long, long history of power politics on the world stage.

One the one hand, they denounce Masonry because they recognize its inherent power and secrecy as a tool of revolutionaries (think the Founding Fathers, the French Revolution, etc.).

On the other hand, they embrace it at the top levels to try to control it and influence it. They turn a blind eye to the top leadership at the Vatican that may engage in Masonic ritual.

For the laity, one set of rules. For the Church hierarchy, a whole other set of rules. Hypocrisy? Yes. But the point is not to be a hypocrite. The points is to have ultimate power and ultimate control over as much of the population as possible.

Freemasonry and the Catholic Church have always been directly at odds and this is quite clear (even Hitler kicked the Masons out of Nazi Germany), but the Jesuits have served as a liaison between them.

Here's a related thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...