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In US, just 53% favor capitalism: poll

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posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by mandroid
Capitalism is working terrible for me. The State takes 37% off the top right away so I have to charge more. Then we get undocumented people, God love them, undercutting me by half and not paying taxes on what they do earn. I feel like I am spinning my wheels while following rules that people under and over me ignore. Does socialism mean I have to give up my rights?

/rant


That's not Capitalism your speaking of. Under a small government no social benefits capitalist society they wouldn't take that much in taxes. And we would have a closed border, without free trade.

What your speaking of causing so many problems.. is Corporate Fascism, Social Socialism.




posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 07:11 PM
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People probably don't know what the difference of the political and economic systems are.

When times are good people tend to want capitalism but when times are bad we want socialism, example the great depression what did we get after it and look at times when were booming when times are bad people will get up or accept almost anything.

If you follow the exact definitions of capitalism and socialism i don't really think that we are either we seem to flip flop between Capitalism, Fascism, Socialism and Communism.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by baseball101
 


I personally doubt that any more than 5% of the population has any clue about alternative governmental systems. Sure many people throw around terms like socialism and communism, but how many people have really looked into alternative governmental systems and different types of monetary systems? I think if people really took the time to educate themselves they would want out of the slavery of capitalism.



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 08:03 PM
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During the cold war, somebody asked the Dalai Lama whether he thought communism or capitalism was better. He replied that either system, or any number of other systems, could provide a viable society as long as the people in charge were rooted in an attitude of compassion, altruism, long-term thinking, and a sense of true public duty. Conversely, he noted, if these qualities are missing, the society becomes a living hell, regardless of whether its communist or capitalist.

Food for thought.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by RubberBaron

Originally posted by Tentickles

The telephone survey of 1,000 people was conducted April 6-7, and has an error margin of three percentage points.


Another 1000 person poll. Sorry I'm not buying it.


1000 person is pretty standard, their claim of within 3% for polls this size is generally accepted.

The fact it's 1000 isn't a problem.

If they happened to call 1000 people of below-average intelligence, then the results will be skewed.

OTOH, looking at some of the people around me, maybe not.


[edit on 10-4-2009 by mirageofdeceit]



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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its funny to me that so many keep saying we have a socialist system here. What we have is privatization of profits, socialization of costs, for the rich. Thats not socialism by any means, any more than the current system we have is capitalism.
So we have a few socialized programs set up. We also have MANY capitalized programs set up, so how can people keep saying our system is socialism, and point to that as the reason for the problems.

The true basis of socialism is that the government (ie: ALL the people) have joint ownership of the means of production.....that is the exact opposite of our US situation where a small elite minority own all the means of production, and the wealth generated thereby is held solely for their benefit as the average worker (actual producer) gets less and less of a return on his efforts.

The system we have now is neither socialism, nor is it regulated capitalism. It is unfettered rule by greed, a system whereby the massively rich pay congressmen to pass whatever legislation they desire, and the poor and middleclass have no say in government choices other than perhaps, Which rich person rules them, or if gay people may marry, or if english is the official language. We do not have any say in taxation, in where our tax dollars go, in if we go to war or not, or anything that may conflict with government or corporate agenda. That power is reserved for wealthy lobby groups and multinational corporations.

In a true socialism, just as in a true democracy, everyones vote is TRULY supposed to be equal....here you have as much freedom or democracy as you can afford. The market does not regulate itsself, and businesses dont lower prices to compete while trying to give the best quality. Instead the few who own everything form into agreements to price fix, whereby they stay within a close margin of each other to keep prices as high as possible while still giving the least product or work acceptable. Its more of a monopolistic oligarchy, and we've handed it over to them with our laziness and ignorance and trust.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by elston
Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating public or state ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equality for all individuals, with a fair or egalitarian method of compensation.


Hmmm. I'm trying to think of a successful socialist society. One with "equality for all individuals"... Hmmm.

Of course, there is no such animal. The only "equality" in the socialist state is government-mandated equality, which flies in the face of realityThere is no such thing as "equality" in our species, much less in Nature. The only thing approaching "equality" in Nature is stagnation.


In the socialist society, the populace is shackled against attaining or even striving for their fondest dreams — There is no incentive to excel, no incentive to win. Winning is the American dream... It made the USA the powerhouse of technological and industrial innovation, and redefined not only our modern Western civilization but Eastern civilization, as well.

I don't care where you are on this planet, unless you're a goddamned savage still chasing zebras with stone knives, then you live in an Americanized culture. If you're reading this, you live in a culture that was vastly improved by American innovations and ideals.

Like it or not.

There is no socialist society in which every individual is free to pursue and attain as much prosperity as he wishes, there is no socialist society that has inspired its citizens to greatness.

I am willing to bet that those polled about their "preference" of capitalism or socialism were only given those two choices — and I'll go one further and bet that the vast majority of those polled don't know anything about socialism OR capitalism.

That's why you ended up with a roughly 50/50 split on the poll.

The American public is politically ignorant — even worse, they've been dumbed down by our anti-American education system and news/entertainment media. We don't teach people how capitalism actually works, how it fosters competition, how it drives innovation. We don't teach that socialism shackles the mind, destroys incentive and stifles creativity.

Instead, we teach that capitalism steals from the little man. We teach that socialism is so high-minded that it provides "equality" for all. The fact is that both of those contentions are Lies.

But I will bet you that, when those polled asked the question, "Well, what's the difference between the two," they were given The Lie.


— Doc Velocity



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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Strange comment that. Seems to me that lately the US has fallen largely behind most western european countries in social mobility, and THAT is the true US dream, that even the poor may rise above their birth station based on merit. And what are most of those western european countries...Sweden, Norway, Switzerland....oh yeah! Socialist democracies! Imagine that! Hold on to your nationalistic propaganda if you like, (america is the best land in the world!!), it has been shown now, in almost all studies, that the standards of living, of healthcare, and of education in america are being left behind by these SOCIALIST DEMOCRACIES!!!



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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Well if you seriously consider pre great cilization society
- with your own you were - socialist

- with others - trade



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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Most people asked have probably never lived under capitalism..unless they are a good 120+ years old..pure capitalism is not good for society,thats a fact..pure socialism is the same.What we humans need is a mix...or better humans running the show.Communism is the most brilliant of all ideaologies imo,but i know it will never work,simple because of humanity and how it operates...so we need to find a balance,but right now we are headed to communism that is dictated by the few with a corrupt mentality...



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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Cut off the welfare and the food stamps, and you'll see a major swing toward capitalism.

In fact, you'd see a nearly 100% trend toward capitalism.

Only the leeches are anti-capitalists. Cut off the feedbag, and they'll find capitalism is the quickest, and most efficient method of obtaining food to satisfy their roaring bellies.

Just think. We've all heard how many different catastrophic events may occur to create a tragedy of unparalleled degree.

Now, imagine all these dumbasses who are spoon-fed suddenly having to provide for themselves . . .

It warms my heart.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by pexx421
Seems to me that lately the US has fallen largely behind most western european countries in social mobility, and THAT is the true US dream, that even the poor may rise above their birth station based on merit. And what are most of those western european countries...Sweden, Norway, Switzerland....oh yeah! Socialist democracies! Imagine that! Hold on to your nationalistic propaganda if you like, (america is the best land in the world!!), it has been shown now, in almost all studies, that the standards of living, of healthcare, and of education in america are being left behind by these SOCIALIST DEMOCRACIES!!!


Europe had well over a thousand years to experiment with and practice and perfect an "ideal" social order, an "ideal" economy, and an "ideal" and lasting set of values — yet Europe has consistently come in second-place to the United States, which was only founded 233 years ago! Europe couldn't even save itself during WWII, relying on the United States to spearhead and finance their rescue. Imagine that! In only the last century, all of Europe has become Americanized, yet they still are experimenting with socialism — and tell me, how are the citizens encouraged to excel and prosper in Sweden, Norway and Switzerland? They aren't.

As for the suggestion that America is "the best land in the world," I would remind you that this nation was founded as a refuge from the tyranny of Europe, and America remains a haven for those seeking the opportunity to fulfill their dreams, an impossibility in their homelands.

Tell me, how is the health of immigration to Sweden, Norway and Switzerland? How many millions of the world's citizens are thronging to Sweden, Norway, Switzerland or Europe in general by legal means, by illegal means, by any means necessary to find true freedom? Ah. I thought so.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


I think you would find if you actually looked into it that the immigration into Europe is probably larger then the US - African in particular.

I can also say to you without any hesitation that I have as much freedom as anyone in America - actually its only when I travel to the US that I'm asked to provide biometric details - which I personally consider a violation of my freedom.

Also, the motivation in some of the countries you seem to so easily cast apserions upon may be the fact that they have companies like Nokia, Erricson, Exxon Mobil, Statoil, IKEA, Astra Zenca, Credit Suisse etc all of which developed quite easily and freely in those socialist democracies that you seem to despise.

Also, I have included a table obtained from an annual study carried out by The Conference Board and Groningen Growth and Development Centre - the table lists in US$ the average productivity per hour of each nation. Again you will see that many of these socialist countries have higher productivity rates than the U.S.

Luxembourg : 57.5
France : 56.6
Belgium : 55.9
Norway : 53.0
Ireland : 51.8
Italy : 50.3
USA : 49.6
Japan : 37.3

Again below a table show the life expectancy rates from various countries around the world - based on 2008 data - again you will see that many of these socialist countries have longer life expectancies then the US.

Health Statistics > Life expectancy at birth > Total population (most recent) by country

Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount Date
# 1 Macau: 84.33 years 2008
# 2 Andorra: 82.67 years 2008
# 3 Japan: 82.07 years 2008
# 4 Singapore: 81.89 years 2008
# 5 San Marino: 81.88 years 2008
# 6 Hong Kong: 81.77 years 2008
# 7 Australia: 81.53 years 2008
# 8 Canada: 81.16 years 2008
# 9 France: 80.87 years 2008
= 10 Switzerland: 80.74 years 2008
= 10 Sweden: 80.74 years 2008
# 12 Guernsey: 80.65 years 2008
# 13 Israel: 80.61 years 2008
# 14 Iceland: 80.55 years 2008
# 15 Anguilla: 80.53 years 2008
# 16 Cayman Islands: 80.32 years 2008
# 17 New Zealand: 80.24 years 2008
# 18 Italy: 80.07 years 2008
# 19 Gibraltar: 80.06 years 2008
# 20 Monaco: 79.96 years 2008
# 21 Liechtenstein: 79.95 years 2008
# 22 Spain: 79.92 years 2008
# 23 Norway: 79.81 years 2008
# 24 Jersey: 79.65 years 2008
# 25 Greece: 79.52 years 2008
# 26 Austria: 79.36 years 2008
# 27 Malta: 79.3 years 2008
# 28 Faroe Islands: 79.29 years 2008
# 29 Netherlands: 79.25 years 2008
= 30 Luxembourg: 79.18 years 2008
= 30 Martinique: 79.18 years 2006
# 32 Germany: 79.1 years 2008
# 33 Belgium: 79.07 years 2008
# 34 Guam: 78.93 years 2008
# 35 Virgin Islands: 78.92 years 2008
# 36 Saint Pierre and Miquelon: 78.91 years 2008
# 37 United Kingdom: 78.85 years 2008
# 38 Finland: 78.82 years 2008
# 39 Man, Isle of: 78.8 years 2008
# 40 Jordan: 78.71 years 2008
# 41 Korea, South: 78.64 years 2008
# 42 Puerto Rico: 78.58 years 2008
# 43 Bosnia and Herzegovina: 78.33 years 2008
# 44 Bermuda: 78.3 years 2008
# 45 Saint Helena: 78.27 years 2008
# 46 Cyprus: 78.15 years 2008
# 47 United States: 78.14 years 2008

Seems like these socialist countries seem to do alright actually - in fact they seem to do better then the U.S.






[edit on 10-4-2009 by count66]



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by count66
I can also say to you without any hesitation that I have as much freedom as anyone in America


Yes, I'm sure you say it without hesitation, but you also say it without sincerity. Hence your enthusiastic attempt to disparage the USA, an effort that is surely born of envy. That is typical of the Global Unionist mentality — the primary reason the Global Union fanatics hate the USA is because we aren't swallowing the socialist LIES hook, line and sinker. More than that, we haven't financed the harebrained Globalist agenda.

And don't you know that the world just loves American money. But we aren't financing the Kyoto Accord, for one example, which is wholly dependent on America's financial participation. The rest of the world can't afford to clean up the 75% of manmade carbon pollution for which they are responsible.

Ooooh, the Globalist just hate it when America refuses to cooperate.

Well, guess what? There's an 800 lb gorilla armed with twin M4/A3s standing between the fidgeting European socialists and their utopian Global Union...and that's us, the sovereign USA. So bitch all you want, disseminate the socialist propaganda to your heart's content — but until you start paying your own way and stop relying on the United States, you're all babes in the woods.


— Doc Velocity



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


Actually I never made any attempt to disparge the U.S. - I quite like the U.S.

I just don't like people who seem to think that Europe is some backwater dependent entirely on the US when in fact it is a mutually dependent relationship where the U.S needs Europe economically as much as Europe needs the U.S.

Also, I dislike people who spread lies without having a clue what they are on about hence the reason to post some tables and lay out some actual facts and not some nonsensical ravings.

As for Kyoto - you are so far wide of the mark on that you may actually want to read up some reliable sources on that.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by count66
Actually I never made any attempt to disparge the U.S.

Well, of course you did, posting hourly productivity statistics for the USA versus the rest of the world, which appeared to demonstrate that the USA has lower productivity than "socialist" nations. Which is a false proposition.

Here follows a link to a government research site comparing worldwide productivity, and I'll tell you why I selected it. Rather than choose an American-friendly research site, I chose a research site hosted by the Australian government:

Productivity Statistics

I would invite you to inspect the annual productivity growth rate (in percent) for the USA, relative to the other countries cited, from 2000 to 2007:


This table seems to demonstrate that, from 2000 to 2007 the USA enjoyed a higher annual productivity growth rate than any of the other entities against which it was compared. More than that, this table demonstrates that Europe had a much higher productivity growth rate in years past, and has actually diminished five-fold in its productivity growth rate over the last 40 years... Which coincides with the onset of socialism in Western Europe.

All together now:

Socialism. Kills. Productivity.

Point is, you and I can track down tables and statistics to support any argument we wish. My data shows that American productivity is remarkably stable and consistent over the long-term, while the rest of the world's productivity is a rollercoaster ride that is not remarkable except in the short-term.


Originally posted by count66
I dislike people who spread lies without having a clue what they are on about hence the reason to post some tables and lay out some actual facts and not some nonsensical ravings.

Then we're in agreement. I dislike liars, as well; and I, too, can pull up statistics to support anything imaginable, just as you do. It's not rocket science.


Originally posted by count66
As for Kyoto - you are so far wide of the mark on that you may actually want to read up some reliable sources on that.

I'm not only widely-read on Kyoto, I've written on the subject for years — and I'm telling you that Kyoto was about extracting vast sums of money from the USA to finance a worldwide cleanup and launch the international carbon credit trading scam. Fortunately, we had a moron for a president who only saw dollar signs, and he flatly rejected the Kyoto confidence scheme.

And, oooooooh, the Globalists just hated that.




— Doc Velocity





[edit on 4/10/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Apr, 11 2009 @ 12:20 AM
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Im sorry, i was engaging that clown with the idea that he was an intellectual, not an ideologue spewing rhetoric. You posted a chart demonstrating productivity per hour per worker, showing that americans are not among the most productive of workers, and he responded by showing a "growth in productivity" chart showing the recent history of US growth vs european countries, that conspicuously is absent of china or india, the largest growing economies in the world. He also completely failed to logically counter any of our points, and failed to make any of his own other than the old "i say this and i say that" arguments with nothing to back them up.



posted on Apr, 11 2009 @ 12:26 AM
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As for the world loving american money....thats why american tourists in Norway now are having an impossible time trading their dollars in for local currency, as none of the banks will accept them. Iran refuses to trade oil for american dollars, and even israel has asked the US to stop giving them foreign aid in dollars, requesting instead that we pay them in euros. Further, russia, china, iran, and others are now pushing to move to a new global reserve currency as the dollar is unreliable and unstable.

Secondly saying that europe has had way more time than us to perform social experiments is disengenuous, as remember....WE ARE EUROPEANS. We may have moved away, but we had the same benefits of their history as they did.



posted on Apr, 11 2009 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by spec_ops_wannabe
The real thing here is the fact that the high rate of High School drop outs in the United States automatically negates polls like this.


I wish it negated elections too, like when Bush won.

Of course, it didn't. Democracy and all.



posted on Apr, 11 2009 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by pexx421
WE ARE EUROPEANS. We may have moved away, but we had the same benefits of their history

Yes. We are Europeans...once removed. I want to say something, but I'd better not.



— Doc Velocity



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