Originally posted by Welfhard
Alike? Like the many gods of the Greeks, Egyptians, and all the other many many pagan peoples?
Yep. I'm not the only one to suggest it, either. If you've ever heard of C.G. Jung, he was the other
founder of modern psychology (besides
Freud), and his last work was a book all about the archetypal similarities between all number of myths and legends, both religious and non-religious.
It's called "Man and His Symbols" and you can probably find it online for free if you look in the right places.
Moreso in centuries past, but today man blindly uses the material sciences as so much of a crutch
Calling the sighted people blind? You're projecting.
I don't think you're qualified to say, honestly, since you just took something impersonal I said, identified with it and MADE it personal (just like
a religious nut would identify with their god and take offense if I talked smack -- you see? you have more alike than you like to admit!!!), and then
projected your ignorance onto me. Projection as a psychological mechanism is actually discussed in the same book I mentioned above.
Have you really never heard anyone express how left-brain dominated academia is today? Or have you never noticed yourself? Some people don't even
arts or music are taught in schools anymore, and at any rate they compare to the emphasis put on sciences and maths. All that
makes a difference in how your brain physically works, because the half of your brain that is normally intuitive, subjective, holistic, etc.
(right-brain associations) isn't as stimulated as the logical, technical, differentiating half (left-brain). And you only need to leave it to an
emotionally-wounded, dominantly left-brained person to tell you how useless intuition and imagination are to human experience, but I disagree with
them, and seeing as how the shape of our skull and the hemispheres of our brain are physically symmetrical, I think nature disagreed too.
That science, or theology, or any other name for a field of study, cannot provide all the "meaningful answers" to the questions man
It's not sciences fault that man asks questions that have no answer, or that man for there to be something more than there is.
If science can't answer a question, then the question has
no answer? You really ARE identifying yourself with science. If I give you a
hammer and tell you to build something, are you going to think you're a hammer and get offended if I start talking crap about hammers, too? Science
is a tool. They teach something called "philosophy" at most universities, and while it isn't a science, it was a certain philosophy that gave
birth to science in the first place. Please don't make science your god. You disgust me just as much, if not moreso, than the religious nuts,
particularly because they're usually at least optimistic and positive more than they are sarcastic and pessimistic. If it weren't for that then I
probably would have never posted on this thread in the first place!
Suck at science, did we?
Actually 3rd year into an electronics engineering major and an avid fan of modern physics...
So now you're stooping to use the "crutch" of science, eh?
So now you're just going to give me some snide remark no matter what I say, because you're a donkey, right?
I use science, but it isn't my god. I don't preach it to people, and I don't look to it for all my answers to life's questions, throwing all my
other questions away.
Making all things mega-parts determinism and quantum-parts indeterminism, probably only because at the quantum level observing an action
changes it making it somewhat mysterious. It likely that the tiny particles are deterministic but even if the likely isn't so, Quantum is going to
make infinitesimally small, negligible changes to the timeline, meaning you still have no freewill.
You have no idea what you're talking about. There are books out now that describe how the brain functions at a neuron level and below, and do you
the brain functions below the neuron level, or how neurons amplify initial states created by even the slightest change of a quantum
state? How how your neurons even work as a mass circuit in general? They conform to magnetic resonance fields, but there are many different
configurations that are (more or less) stable, and even the slightest change of a quantum state in the right place can switch your neurons from one
state to another, usually (but not always
-- the quantum indeterminacy coming into play) the one that is thermodynamically
(electromagnetically) most stable. And then of course the random "tunneling" of electrons in the first place could also make a difference in what
someone thinks at a given point in time, etc. I don't even care if you disagree, because you WANT to disagree, it's an expression of your
pessimistic attitude and the whole reason you even get online to argue with someone in the first place. Go read a book if you want to know something
about what I'm talking about. There's one called "The Quantum Brain" by Jeffrey Satinover if you're really interested at all.
Morals are social constructs; customs to live by in order to be accepted and favoured in the group.
And they are also largely arbitrary, and vary from one place in the world to another. Yours are not "the best," and you can't prove that they are,
either. Yet you'll continue to use those ideas on a daily basis with no objective validation of them whatsoever. I'm not saying it's wrong.
That's exactly my point. If you remember, YOU were to one trying to make an argument on the basis that people shouldn't believe things (ie the
religious) unless they can prove them objectively. Well, you're a hypocrite. Welcome to the club, we all are, you can't help it.
They aren't real universal laws by any stretch. God would be, but we still have no reason to believe, no motivating evidence.
I don't know who you're "we" is, but there are plenty of other "we" 's out there that have found every god you can imagine and then some. You
just don't know what you're looking for, or looking at.
The Scientific Method, the best way of learning anything
Do you realize how Orwellian you sound yet? Or how much like a religious nut? Biased, is another way to put it, I guess. The whole science IS your
god thing again, because you keep appealing to it, like a crutch.
"Complete Expression" ? You wanna define that for us?
The universe and everything in it. I have no idea what all that entails, but neither does anybody else, and yet there it is!!
The universe itself has no will or intent
can discern, I agree.
Btw, we are conscious, aren't we? Therefore, there is consciousness in the universe. Saying that therefore the universe itself is conscious is just
semantics. If we want to claim it conscious simply because we exist in it, who else is going to object?
You still aren't answering the OP's question. This species, this planet, this solarsystem even, is not significant. On the assumption that a
God exists, why would it care? Looking around at the upkeep of the world, it doesn't exactly look like he does. > Go back a few pages and look at
I know George Carlin, I've watched his comedies, he's a good comedian. He isn't a very good philosopher, though. Good at bashing religion, but as
far as any kind of a philosophy goes he's pretty pessimistic and boring. Seeing our solar system as insignificant is just your point of view, your
way of seeing things. It isn't objective or justified scientifically, but it does once again reflect your pessimism. I have no issues with my sense
of significance in the universe.
But the general logic of 'higher beings' is flawed, what do they do in all of their infinateness?
The "logic" of your question, if it's supposed to be some kind of rebuttal, is awful. You have no idea what I mean by "higher," and I know for
a fact you misinterpreted it.
I can't escape the idea that if God does exist, he can't care about any of us any more than we care about the stones that don't get
stuck in our shoe, or he is morally bankrupt.
"He" doesn't care about you anymore than you care about yourselves, because you and "him" have more in common than you realize. If you want to
find pessimism in this universe, you will find plenty of it and worse. If you ever want to go anywhere else, just look there and stop looking down
all the time. Because there is everything, death and all kinds of nasty killings included. The people that dwell on those things tend to manifest
more of it in the world. I call it like I see it. It's not about right or wrong or yes or no or anything technical because everything is just made
up. You might as well be dreaming and really everything makes just as much sense as if you were. What's the difference?
[edit on 10-4-2009 by bsbray11]