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The Frightening, Unsolved and Disturbing Incident of Nine Dead Skiers

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posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by Vector J
 


OP Thanks for bringing this story up. We discussed it here last year: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Vector- this sounds like a better explanation than I gave at the above link.

Here is a copy paste of what I thought last Febraury:

"Hotrice,

It's funny we must read similar websites from the left coast. After a few hours of internet research I wanted to believe that this was unworldly but I can't get past a few things that lead me to believe it was human error that caused this tragedy.

I wonder why they were wearing hardly any clothing? Anyone who has done any winter camping in more recent times barely removes their outer shell when sleeping in snow conditions. Granted this was nearly 50 years ago but warmth should have had them wrapped like Eskimos for sleeping. I do wonder about the lights but there is no official recorded record aside from a police investigator who likes UFO's that made a confession 30 years after the fact.

What I believe happened is much simpler. Their leader camped them on a ridge and knew there was a possibility of an avalanche. Late in the night they heard/felt what they thought was an avalanche and ran out of their tents (sans clothing) like any scared person would.. after about a mile they stopped and tried to make a fire under a tree. 3 of them stayed near the fire while the others went back to the tents for their clothing. Another avalanche actually struck near where the fire was built taking the people that remained behind and burying them under 14 meters of snow (that is how they got the crushing blows). The others that headed back to camp freaked out and lost their way and froze to death. Hypothermia sets in very quickly at those temperatures especially if they are exposed to the elements.

Some potential questions and potential answers: Q:What about the womans missing tongue? A: It is unclear if she was one of the people found under the 14 meters of snow, if she was, the force of being caught in an avalanche could have caused her to bite her own tongue off. Q: What about the lights? A: Could have been an earthquake that caused the avalanche if so there are reports of lights from the earth when earthquakes happen. or... the former S Union was testing some mini-newks in a mountain range causing bright lights and avalanches and the group was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. This could explain some of the reports of radi-a-shun on the bodies.

I have gone from the creepy bizarre out of this world abduction theory to a more this is what could have happened.

Your thoughts..."

M




posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 08:19 AM
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any thoughts on the theory i just posted. i think its covers most of the bases. and is fairly logical. but i suppose at the end of the day only the people their on that day will ever know.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 08:28 AM
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one other theory that ties in with mine is if you remove the nuclear explosion. and you do have a sonic boom. or noise based shock wave. even there can cause visual hallucinations or blindness. possibly the testing of sonic based weaponry designed to confuse and subdue a person.

Auditory-visual synesthesia: sound-induced photisms.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...


Nine patients with visual loss due to lesions of the optic nerve or chiasm experienced photisms induced by sound. Descriptions of these varied from simple flashes of white light to complicated colorful hallucinations likened to a flame, a petal of oscillating lines, a kaleidoscope, or an ameba; they always appeared within a defective portion of the visual field as demonstrated by perimetry. The provoking sounds were usually those of normal daily life, ranged from soft to loud, and always seemed to be heard by the ear ipsilateral to the eye in which the photism was seen. Sound-induced photisms occurred under circumstances that would promote a startle reaction to sound, and each patient was startled when the photisms occurred.


note how in these tests the subjects have startled reactions. tyhey are scared by it happening this links with the hasty exit of the camp then trying to get back after the effect has worn off.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by jericanman
 


I think that much of what you wrote is plausible given what we know about the events of that night, however the actions of the hikers suggest absolute blind panic and I don't believe that merely witnessing one of these "orbs" would be sufficent to cause this on it's own. If however the orb projected a beam at them (as is often reported in abduction encounters) or the hikers actually sighted an alien being then their reaction extreme though it was seems more credible.

Just my opinion of course.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by masawa
 


WOW! spot on!


maybe thats why the authorities hid all the evidence, because of the russian mini nukes thingy.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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From what I remember, isn't there some local legend or folklore that comes from the Mansi tribe, about 9 Mansi dying on the mountain Kholat Syakhyl (mountain of the dead) ?
The place they were heading for Mount Ortorten, means don't go there !


What I find curious is the level of radiation in the area.

[edit on 10-4-2009 by Family Size]



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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I think it's safe to say there's little evidence suggesting alien intervention in this case.

I saw a mention that the UFO reports were not made until a lot later, and by one person.
Likewise, I don't think a few orbs in the sky would be enough to scare these people into a certain death situation. They would have known that in those temperatures their chances of survival would be slim, so the threat of death would have had to have been greater and immediate.

It also has to be considered that much of this story could have been elaborated upon in later years. There are loose connections to it here and there, but no difinitive study seems to exist. It's mostly UFOlogists making assumptions.

The radiation I think can be completely disregarded. At this time it was a relatively new science, and there was clearly a reason beyond the UFO ideas for the authorities to check for this, if they did and it wasn't just added by UFO fanatics later to spice it up a bit.
If they had tested for this, it would mean that either the site had been used for testing (which also seems to be suggested) or that one or more members of the team were involved in the science.
You just don't do radiation testing for such investigations unless there is reason to. And at that time UFO investigations were almost non-existent and where they did exist there wasn't testing for radiation as far as I can tell. Radiation testing at encounter sites didn't seem to come about until the 1970's.

The avalanche idea is extremely plausible. Clearly there wasn't one, but if there had been an earthquake, the immediate fear would have been that they were about to be buried.
In the dark, and with a threat of avalanche, they would have scattered in the panic as they were. Finding their way back to shelter in that darkness would be extremely difficult.
This idea explains the panic, explains the cut in the tent, and explains the one man climbing the tree to see if he could find a way back.
But it doesn't explain the injuries.

Another part of this EQ theory that doesn't make sense is that no one else reported it. But I don't know how far they were from civilization, so that's a line that could do with some investigation.

My gut is still telling me that one of them went insane and attacked the others. The missing tongue, the internal injuries, the fire, no other footprints, the cut in the tent, no sign of avalanche, no report of EQ, the testing for radiation (possibly to see if that exposure had driven them insane?) The secrecy about it would suggest that scientific research was involved.
Yes, they could have subdued one mad man, but in the pitch dark, in -30, and after he had already cut a girls tongue out (if that's what happened)?

Is there a map of the region showing where the various parts to this story were in relation to one another? It would be interesting to see how the events unfolded in relation to the positions of the evidence.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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after reading more on the surrounding mountains. their is supposed to be bases on the mountain region. supposedly for nuclear testing. but their are no reports of any missile tests around that time. the whole area seems to be full of Bigfoot reports (or snow men as they are commonly know in the area) some of these reports like most Bigfoot reports have accounts of ufo activity at the same time.

and it is a well know fact that most people reportedly seeing a Bigfoot get overwhelmed by an unknown fear, or state of panic. sometimes before they even see the Bigfoot in question.

possibly the mysterious ape men where involved. scared the bejesus out of some of the party, combined with ufo actively this would probably be sufficient to start group panic.


found this snippet at the bottom of an artical about the event


UPDATE: For reasons unknown, Russian authorities closed the entire area off from the public for three years. All material relating to the incident was sealed in a lock-box until 1990. When the records were unsealed in 1990, however, a number of pages were missing from the files, including an envelope which had previously been mentioned in the case materials list.


www.unsolvedmysteries.com...

if true that leads me to belie it was some kind of weapon testing.

possibly like i said before a combination of sound based weaponry. maybe one that causes visual hallucinations like i stated. if this was in the form of some kind of explosion style blast it could cause of the internal injury and panic and confuse the skiers at the same time. resulting in the half dressing the quick exit and then the attempt at a return to the camp once the worst of the effects wore off.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 10:44 AM
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Ok, I have found a diagram of the area and where the bodies were found.

Link

Not very detailed, but it gives an idea of the distances in relation to each other.

From this we can assume that the entire group made their way to the pine trees. What doesn't make sense is why three tried to make it back to camp and the rest didn't.
They clearly knew what direction the camp was.

Why did the other four then continue on in the opposite direction?

This just makes me think even more that there was an incident among them. They were friends, so why would they split up if they knew where the camp was? Why would four of them run in the opposite direction to safety while three tried to get back to camp?

This really is baffling.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 10:47 AM
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some 1 said about the russians testing wepons on them wll perhaps they were poisend and they cut out 1 of there tounges to see how the taste buds reacted to the poisen.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 10:48 AM
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also their have been finds off out of place items in the mountain regions.

micro and near nano technology stlye items that we are just developing today.

home.comcast.net... (the artical is just off the bottom of the page or search page for russia


Even as regards very recent events - I am thinking of the end of the Second World War - we aware of how quickly technical objects can disappear. Weapons, ammunition, and even large finds are already almost completely rusted away and disintegrating. In view of this, the finds made recently in Russia are all the more astonishing. In the years 1991-1993, gold prospectors on the small river Narada, on the eastern side of the Ural mountains, have found unusual, mostly spiral-shaped objects. The size of these things ranges from a maximum of 3 cm (1.2 in.) down to an incredible 0.003 mm, about 1/10,000th of an inch! To date, these inexplicable artifacts have been found in their thousands at various sites near the rivers Narada, Kozhim, and Balbanyu, and also by two smaller streams named Vtvisty and Lapkhevozh, mostly at depths between 3 and 12 meters (10 and 40 ft.)



Quite apart from such subtleties, these objects are obviously the product of an inexplicable and highly advanced technology; they bear remarkable resemblance to control elements used in micro-miniature devices in our very latest technology, so-called nanomachines. This technology is still in its infancy with us, but already engineers are thinking of applications which are pure science-fiction. Among other things, they envisage constructing microprobes for use in medicine which can be implanted, such as for carrying out operations inside blood vessels which are not possible with present surgical techniques.


maby this is leftover technology. from a crash or intentionally left.




also to help back up Bigfoot idea i found this article delving into the idear. (probably bias due to the hosting site) but goes into more detial on some facts than outher sites i read.

www.bigfootencounters.com...


But on February 1st some strange things appeared in behavior of the group as police investigation had revealed. They had stopped to camp much earlier, than usually. The people had put tents one km from top only and in 1,5 km from edge of a forest on an entirely open place. The group without problems could pass this day on the mountaintop and stay in forest with firewood as usual. That day nobody wrote in diaries, but for some unknown reason they unwrapped the large sheet of paper and wrote on it in upper part by the large letters such words: "From now on we know that the snow men exist".



and the report of the bases in the area come from.

www.globalsecurity.org...

the times report


April 16, 1996 An April 16, 1996 New York Times article stated: In a secret project reminiscent of the chilliest days of the Cold War, Russia is building a mammoth underground military complex in the Ural Mountains, Western officials and Russian witnesses say. Hidden inside Yamantau Mountain in the Beloretsk area of the southern Urals, the project involved the creation of a huge complex, served by a railroad, a highway, and thousands of workers.’


www.zetatalk.com...

welll all this posting has made me hungry im off for some lunch. hope to he\r some feedback on the items i posted.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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well while eating my lovely prawn and coconut curry for lunch, i delved into the idea of earthquake's.

searching for the date in question. only turned up a large event at yellow stone mountain in a different month that year.

regarding the area its self i found this. (its in pdf on the website i had to use an extractor program to get this bit. to find it in the document use the search function to find ural)


The eastern part of the Northern Caucasus is the most active. The Eastern European plain and th e Urals are subject to relativel Similar earthquakes occur in the Central Ur y low seismic als, in Preduralye, Povolzh e, around the Azov Sea and the Voronezh Oblast. More sign The north-west of Russia can suffer from earthquakes in Scandinavia (N ificant orway, 1817), while in the s Occasionally seismic shocks of up to 3-4 points are felt over a wide area, including both Moscow and St Petersburg, from deep s outh, strong earthquakes on t he eastern coast Siberia . The Altai, including Mongolian Altai, a eated, major nd Sayan are one of the most earthquake-pr In Russian territory,


the area is prone to low intensity earthquakes. this being one of the oldest mountain ranges in the world talking in geography terms it has a lot of stress build up from the tectonic plates. but i cant find any specific info regarding our date of February the first 1959


the party splitting up in suck an odd manner would only work under some odd circumstances.

even my theory would only work if.

either.

1. some kind of psychosocial weapon (possibly sound based) was used that affected some members of the party more than others. causing some to react more. some to turn back after the reality of the situation sank in. possibly the explosion / shock wave came after the test to remove witnesses. resulting in the injury after the confusion though not the best way to end things unless someone wanted unexploded corpses to run tests on (missing tongue).

2. as another poster said. actually physically seeing an alien / bigfoot or the ufo acting in an aggressive manner .. like a ray or beam or such like aimed at the party. some may have ran others paralyzed with fear only to gather clothes and run once fear had really gripped them.

3. one of the party went mad. due to nerotoxins like one person said. possibly that nano technology that i dug up on that site. affected them. who knows. not to probable but possible. more so if all but one ran away or they separated in a way that suggested all fleeing as the mad man was killing someone.

4. as some reports stated tey only found 8 tracks suggesting one person was being carried for a while possibly the one with the head injury. as the others had broken ribs bad but with adrenaline flowing bearable. possibly they where attacked by say alien / bigfoot resulting in some crushing injury. hence the quick exit from their tents and the campsite. only to discover more of them when they got to the woods witch sent them all fleeing in different directions again. climbing the tree and the fire could have been an attempt to scare the alien / bigfoot away. while hiding up the tree.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by ghaleon12
Maybe she died, all the other body parts were frozen and couldn't be eaten, but since the tongue is inside it was maybe not as frozen?
If the rest was frozen how did they opened the mouth?

Wouldn't the jaw muscle be frozen too?



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


Yea it would,plus Rigamortis would have set in also,making it even more difficult.And without showings of an animal tearing through the mouth or cheek it seems more likely that the tongue removal was pre-mortem.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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as for eating of the tongue idea.

well it just dont seem very likely.

an animal manages to pry open a jaw to feast on the tounge and leave no traces of doing so.

on top of that any meat eater that lives out their ... wolfs etc ant just gunna eat one tongue then stop. and i can guarantee it would make a mess of doing it . due to their insisors, these teeth are made to rip flesh off. not perfectly cut it. the whole face would be shredded up to get to the tongue.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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i totally agree the tongue probably was removed after death.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by jericanman
 


I've seen some footage and documentary investigation into this, and it was widely believed to be industrial waste dumped in recent years.

Back on topic, I'm trying to think this through one step at a time. Firstly, why they left camp.

The fact that some had partial clothing (one sock) suggests that there was a perception that they had some time. If a person thinks their life is in immediate danger, would they think about putting on their socks?
I don't think they would do this if they were worried about an avalanche. They were relatively experienced and would have known that it was probably safer to remain outside the tent(s). They would have at least grabbed enough clothing.

So, the person with one sock woke up because of something, started to dress to go outside (knowing the dangers of exposure), heard/saw something else and then panicked.
If there were only eight sets of footprints, one person was being carried, probably female because a man is more likely to stagger on foot while being supported and because the injuries were abdominal, not to their feet or legs right? A woman is more likely to be lifted and carried by men.
Again, this suggests that something violent happened in the camp. And that it wasn't a fear of avalanche that caused them to leave.

The tent was cut open from within (were they all in one tent?)
This either suggests that there was something or someone preventing them from leaving through the exit, or that there was a struggle within involving a knife and that the cut was accidental or a part of this struggle. I'm more inclined to believe that if the cut was large enough for them to leave through it was a deliberate cut in order to escape the tent and not due to a struggle.

The investigators suggested that there was no indication of violence, and yet they state that the tent was in a bad condition. So we can at least propose that there was a struggle within. Just because the footprints do not display a battle outside doesn't mean that there wasn't a struggle within that tent.

They all had a meal 6 to 8 hours before, so it's safe to assume the poor lady lost her tongue after this. It's also safe to assume that the other injuries were sustained after this too. Is it easy to eat with such internal injuries? I don't think it would be very likely.

I'm more inclined to trust the physical evidence reported, than any assumptions made by investigators. They could have missed something or assumed something else.



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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after talking to my freind about this case and showing him the story he gave an interesting idea.

he said

thats crazy the only way i could see something like that happening is if they where on drugs.

came to the possible conclusion myself.

they where all graduates recently this was meant to be a farewell trip before the friends split.

mushrooms grow everywhere in that area. u can google this.

it wouldn't be the best idea tripping with the dangerous conditions. but who knows that could enplane the fully dressed and partially dressed people.

some did the drugs of some psychedelic nature,

some did not as sitters.

the trip went bad some struggle went on inside the tent. one of the trippers cuts a whole in the tent to escape. possible that the entrance was blocked by a sitter telling them it was dangerous to go out. this panic could have caused some of the others to flee. this would have resulted in the damaged tent and the rip. the sitters finish dressing and go after their mates. now at this point we will assume that maby some of the trippers due to cold possibly sobered up a bit and realized their situation. half dressed in -20 something and turned back to the camp. they die of hypothermia.

the sitters might have helped them as they followed after.. possibly half dressing some or taking items off them if they where dead to give to another??

the 2 by the tree at this point might have had a similar bout of sobriety and tried to start a fire and climb the tree either before as some kind of escape or after to spot the sitters.

by now the sitters are lost and stubble into the ravine.

the tongue can easily be explained by this. its not uncommon at all for people to try swallowing or biting their tongues clean off while on drugs.


as crazy as it sounds its a rather logical explanation for the events that unfolded. people have done crazier things on drugs.

on a side note


Psylocybin, the drug in mushrooms, CAN be tested for, but is not a standard test, unless someone wants to test for mushrooms specificaly, and order an expensive test kit, it wont be tested for.


so i doubt it would have showed up in tests after the bodys where recovered.

[edit on 10-4-2009 by jericanman]



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual
The tent was cut open from within (were they all in one tent?)
Good question.
I haven't seen anywhere any reference to that, but maybe they were.


This either suggests that there was something or someone preventing them from leaving through the exit, or that there was a struggle within involving a knife and that the cut was accidental or a part of this struggle. I'm more inclined to believe that if the cut was large enough for them to leave through it was a deliberate cut in order to escape the tent and not due to a struggle.
You can see the cut in the photos on this site (in Russian).


They all had a meal 6 to 8 hours before, so it's safe to assume the poor lady lost her tongue after this.
In this site (Google translation is better than nothing...) they say that she was found on the ground, face down, and with the ground soaked in her blood.

As this happened in the (then) Soviet Union, I think it could be a good idea if we got the help of one of the ATS "translators" registered on the The UFO-Alien Applied Linguistics Registry



posted on Apr, 10 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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great link im reading the Russian links now. they really have done some digging on the subject. a translator would be ace but google seems to do a good enuf job



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