'Pirates' Strike a U.S. Ship Owned by a Pentagon Contractor, But Is the Media Telling the Whole St

reply to post by budski


What a load of crap. Roll up your pants, people..... it's too late to save the shoes. The media, especially the New York Times (all the news that's print to fit), won't call them what they really are: Muslim/Al Queda operatives.

It's the ancestors of the same bunch President Jefferson formed the Marines to wipe out, as in ".... to the shores of Tripoli."

The idiotic "International Law" prevents ships from just blowing them out of the water, and leaving the survivors for fish food. No.... we have to wait until they fire first.. more crapola. Who'd know if we did that? There's no one around for miles.

It's piracy on the high seas, and there's only one way to stop it.

reply to post by zappafan1

The media, especially the New York Times (all the news that's print to fit), won't call them what they really are: Muslim/Al Queda operatives.

Ridiculous assertion.

In a country where most people live on less than $5 dollars a day, piracy has little to do with religious motivation.

The pirates are a large, multi-ethnic composition of Somalians, Kenyans, Sudanese, Yemenis, Gulf Arabs who are all in it for the profit.
You have to look at what fuels this lucrative business and the desperate conditions that make the ranks of Pirates swell so suddenly.

And that inevitably comes down to looking at the history of Somalia; a country exploited end after end by selfish European powers for 50 years. Everyone from the Germans, Italians, British and French had a slice of the pie over the decades whenever a substance of value was discovered and every time the Somalis were raped of their natural resources.

This is what caused the onset of Feudalistic warlords and tribalism, where people banded together to resist what they perceived outside influence.
This later expanded to resisting Somalis who didn't support their territorial or religious ambitions.

Then of the course the renowned UNinvolved Organisation with a good track record of not preventing bloodshed in Africa came to Mogadishu in 1993 and the rest is history.

The famines and civil wars that killed over 300,000 people just bred another more disillusioned generation with even more contempt for outside influences.

The above mentioned economic conditions together with a inherent dislike for foreign powers and no stable, functioning government to offer people even the prospect of paid work gives rise to Piracy.

Islamic Fundamentalism has very, very little to do with Piracy. Period.

It's the ancestors of the same bunch President Jefferson formed the Marines to wipe out, as in ".... to the shores of Tripoli."

Those were Turkish Barbary Pirates operating the Mediterranean.

These are African, Somalian pirates operating in the Gulf of Aden and Indian Ocean.

Where's the connection?

Tripoli is in Lebanon btw, I'm guessing you didn't know.

[edit on 13/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Originally posted by budski


According to the article, the piracy by Somalia is in response to illegal fishing and the dumping of nuclear waste in their waters.

Unreported, for the most part, is that these "pirates" call themselves "Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia" and "ordinary Somalis agree. The independent Somalian news site WardheerNews found 70 per cent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence."

If a country is as poor as Somalia, what choices do they have when it comes to protecting their waters?

The fishing industry in Somalia has allegedly been "pirated" by other countries, and their coastlines made toxic by nuclear waste, so in their eyes, they are protecting their country, and levying a "tax" on international vessels as a form of reparation.

Of course there is also little doubt that some of the "pirates" are acting purely out of self interest.

But a great many are acting to protect their country and their people - of course this doesn't make for good news, so isn't reported by the MSM.

As usual.

www.alternet.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

Here is my issue with this:

1. It is the job of their government to protect their waters. If their waters are not protected, then it is the government who is failing and the people need to put their energy into fixing that first.

2. when the containers of waste washed ashore, they didn't bother to keep any containers to pursue legal action. Who wants to eat fish from waters that are toxic? It doesn't add up.

3. They surely cannot believe that they can do anything to "protect" their waters. They are only pissing off the rest of the world, and will elicit a disproportionate response.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

1. It is the job of their government to protect their waters. If their waters are not protected, then it is the government who is failing

The ignorance being displayed here is astounding...

WHAT government? Somalia hasn't had a real, sovereign government since the Italians left Somalia about 60 years ago.

How can you point the blame at an entity that doesn't exist. The closest Somalia has to a government are squabbling warlords, none of which control a significant majority of the populace in the country.

2. when the containers of waste washed ashore, they didn't bother to keep any containers to pursue legal action. Who wants to eat fish from waters that are toxic? It doesn't add up.

Oh yes it does, it's a very real issue indeed some people that some people are being hard-pressed to cover up, see here (second post down).

They surely cannot believe that they can do anything to "protect" their waters.

They perceived themselves as oppressed and unduly influenced by foreign powers hence they fight back with whatever means they have at hand.

It's no different from what the American colonial militias did against the British.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

The ignorance being displayed here is astounding...

WHAT government? Somalia hasn't had a real, sovereign government since the Italians left Somalia about 60 years ago.

How can you point the blame at an entity that doesn't exist. The closest Somalia has to a government are squabbling warlords, none of which control a significant majority of the populace in the country.

A nation is only as strong as the people that make it. That is my point. The government is what the people allow it to be. But i am happy that i can astound you. You are easily astounded, it seems.

Oh yes it does, it's a very real issue indeed some people that some people are being hard-pressed to cover up, see here (second post down).

I am not saying that the waste isn't there, i am asking WHO is fishing that stretch of ocean. Who is eating the fish? How are the fish surviving in such horrible conditions? That is what doesn't add up.

They perceived themselves as oppressed and unduly influenced by foreign powers hence they fight back with whatever means they have at hand.

It's no different from what the American colonial militias did against the British.

Except the American colonial militias resulted from some level of governance set up by the people to ensure that they protected the greater populace. Somalians are not doing this, apparently, as you yourself just stated that they have had no real government for 60 years. Instead of confronting the issues as a nation, they are resorting to criminal acts, terror, and murder.

Let me ask you this: what were they protecting their waters from when they hijacked a cargo ship? Were they afraid that we might spill some grains into their ocean?

And what about the private yachts? What threat do they represent?

They are greedy criminals.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

The government is what the people allow it to be.

So you're saying the Somalians allowed themselves to be colonised and exploited for many a decade, willingly, and then somehow imposed the disastrous civil war and political situation upon themselves when the UN left Somalia in 1993 and let warlords take over?

Oh yeah, infallible logic. These people brought it all upon themselves, let's all be short-sighted and forget that foreign influence played a major factor in destabilising Somalia for a good 60 years.

It can't possible the fault of us in the West. We've never done such things!

i am asking WHO is fishing that stretch of ocean. Who is eating the fish? How are the fish surviving in such horrible conditions? That is what doesn't add up.

You seem to be under the impression that the entire Somalian coastline is one giant ecological disaster.

Not so, although it may well be that way in the future.

Currently, there's been limited dumping of radioactive waste, and the European companies doing it are dumping sealed containers, some of which cracked open during the Indonesian Tsunami.

It takes generations for build up of heavy metals in fish, or radioactive elements to show up in the people who eat them. It's not as if every person who dares go near Somalian waters is going to turn green and drop dead.

Many of the people are probably completely unaware of this problem, save for a few savvy pirates.

Nevertheless, it doesn't make this anymore legal.

Instead of confronting the issues as a nation, they are resorting to criminal acts, terror, and murder.

This may shock you but not every Somalian is a drug-smuggling, AK-47-toting warlord.

And not every Somalian has a choice. You think these militias are volunteer organisations?

If people don't like the particular flavour of militia who control the territory they live they can't file a formal complaint or just pack up and leave.

They're stuck like this. They can hardly unite when warlords execute any opposition and are constantly warring for territory.

They are greedy criminals.

The pirates are, yes.

The ordinary, innocent people of Somalia, who are the majority of Somalia, are not.

When is a Pirate, not a pirate?
Is it the number of ships?
Someone else calls you a pirate? Therefore you are?

Originally posted by budski
My problem is with the MSM, who as usual, ignore the REAL story of how a whole country is being robbed and exploited to concentrate on the "danger" of the "pirates"

Given the full story, I think that people may be liable to kick up a bit of a stink about this.

Then again, it's Africa, and most people seem completely unconcerned about what happens there, including many ATSers.

The country has been raped by the west for hundreds of years - is it collective guilt that makes us ignore an entire continent?

Or do people only care when it happens in their own back yard.

A provincial attitude is not conducive to understanding what goes on in the world.

[edit on 9/4/2009 by budski]

I couldn't agree more! Here's a few more details to chew on, first off, has anyone been on an freighter/oil tanker? Is so, you should quickly understand how difficult it will be to 'board' such a vessel.

2nd, a standard freighter's deck is about 60ft to the water line, the only way to get on board that I know of is by gangway.

60ft to the water line.hmmmm..also, think about this, the bridge has monitors of all the camera's on board and are monitored, pretty sure depending on the cargo, 24/7. Most of which are placed at crucial areas of the ship to ensure the cargo stays secure.

A dingy somehow, was used to board a freighter with no gangway, 60ft below the deck, with no one knowing, at night no less probably, in international waters....

Well if all this is true, then these pirates are WAY more experienced in boarding that your average person. Just to get on the damm ship is a feat in itself IMO. Why? you'll need at least 100ft of rope just to be sure you got enuf for the grappling hook and oh.. don't forget about the LOUD noise it will make when it makes contact against the hull. LOL

that is, if you make it the first time without missing the edge for it to grab on to.

ALSO, why was the freighter even CLOSE to an area that as been on the U.S. State Department charts as being know for pirating! ?? travel.state.gov...

Shoot, US consulate affairs as been giving warnings about traveling to SOMALIA...but, the freighter completely ignored this warning ??

U.S. citizens who travel to Somalia despite this Travel Warning are urged to register through the State Department's travel registration website, travelregistration.state.gov... and obtain updated information on travel and security from the U.S. Embassies in neighboring countries.

Travelers to the self-declared "Republic of Somaliland" should register with the U.S. Embassy in Djibouti, and travelers to Puntland or southern Somalia should register with the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi.

putting 2+2 together.. something just don't add up..

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

So you're saying the Somalians allowed themselves to be colonised and exploited for many a decade, willingly, and then somehow imposed the disastrous civil war and political situation upon themselves when the UN left Somalia in 1993 and let warlords take over?

Oh yeah, infallible logic. These people brought it all upon themselves, let's all be short-sighted and forget that foreign influence played a major factor in destabilising Somalia for a good 60 years.

It can't possible the fault of us in the West. We've never done such things!

You most certainly CAN fault the west. Our hypocritical picking and choosing of which regimes to support, and which to topple seems to be policy made from the same logic used to play Battleship.

Regardless, the warlords are part of the people, as well. And one would expect that the "regular" population of any country would outnumber that of the government/military. In Somalia, the "ruling party" is currently whoever has a truck with a cannon mounted in the back. But the people outnumber the "ruling class". If they are starving, it would appear that a choice must now be made: face this ruling class and make something of their nation, or face the guns of the west while trying to steal our cargo and kidnap our civilians.

I understand what you are saying: desparate times bring desparate measures. I cannot say that i would do any different than any of these pirates if in their position...but i also would fully expect that the people i was stealing from to get tired of it and fight back. It is the expected result. Surely they understand this, given the flimsy reason they have for their crimes in the first place (retaliation for things stolen from them).

You seem to be under the impression that the entire Somalian coastline is one giant ecological disaster.

Not so, although it may well be that way in the future.

Currently, there's been limited dumping of radioactive waste, and the European companies doing it are dumping sealed containers, some of which cracked open during the Indonesian Tsunami.

It takes generations for build up of heavy metals in fish, or radioactive elements to show up in the people who eat them. It's not as if every person who dares go near Somalian waters is going to turn green and drop dead.

Many of the people are probably completely unaware of this problem, save for a few savvy pirates.

Nevertheless, it doesn't make this anymore legal.

Then i will let you eat the Somalian seafood. I will stick with the stuff in our own Gulf waters.

If people don't like the particular flavour of militia who control the territory they live they can't file a formal complaint or just pack up and leave.

They're stuck like this. They can hardly unite when warlords execute any opposition and are constantly warring for territory.

I understand this. So, like i said, they have created an issue whereby they will either face the guns of the warlords, or the guns of US Navy Seals. Where do they go now?

The pirates are, yes.

The ordinary, innocent people of Somalia, who are the majority of Somalia, are not.

you are correct.