"Collapse Psychosis"

Clearly all is not right with the world. All you have to do is turn on the news and you will get the daily dose of violence being reported, as usual. However there have been at least five mass killings in the past week, from Washington state to New York. Obviously economic pressures are taking their toll but maybe there is more to it than that.

Carolyn Baker has posed the the idea that there is more to it - "Collapse Psychosis". She asserts that what we are experiencing is the unraveling of society.

She has a pretty interesting background, one that would make her uniquely qualified to make such a claim. From her web-site:

Carolyn is an adjunct professor of history, a former psychotherapist, an author, and a student of mythology and ritual.

Collapse Psychosis

It's happening daily now, almost hourly-rampant eruptions of violence throughout the so-called developed world. As civilization unravels, the uncivilized behavior of humans is becoming viral, and the culture of empire is quite simply going mad as its values, assumptions, and reasons for existing are evaporating with dizzying speed. For those who are and have been collapse-aware for some time, it is important not only to make sense of the epidemic violence, but to incorporate skillful responses to it.

First, I believe we need to deeply discern what is actually happening psychologically. The current outbreaks of violence are about more than unemployment and financial stressors. Yes, job loss, bankruptcy, foreclosure, homelessness, and loss of health care are breaking people and communities in pieces. Yet something even more fundamental is seething beneath the surface--something of which these losses are symptomatic.

Underlying the chaos is the reality of civilization's dissolution...

I've read many of Baker's articles over the last couple of years. She was certainly one of the first commentators on the prospect of "collapse" - an original "Doomer", if you will!

More Articles by Carolyn Baker:
www.populistamerica.com...

Let's hope she is wrong...


[edit on 9/4/2009 by kosmicjack]

I still have trouble with the story that came out of Calif. where this man killed his family because they were down to their last million dollars!

As I retired Marine I can say I have seen people do funny things once panic sets in but I'm not sure this is all about collapse... didn't they report the guy who killed his 5 kids then himself did so because the wife was leaving him? then the man who shot up the old folks home was after his wife but found those in walkers to be easy practice targets until he found her...

True we've seen a lot of this lately but I don't see how their all connected...

I to have been studying this for some time as your op article writer has and unfortunately she is right on the money. It doesn't seem to be constrained to any certain class or nationality, but is has happened many times in the past.
Much the same way we are seeing now. One thing you must consider is that most of these people have families. I myself am a mother of 3 beautiful teenagers who are nothing like the children around us in anyway. We have raised them to be upright honest hard working and law abiding. But when a parent is at the point where they have lost everything they WILL do what ever it takes to make sure said child is cared for. In the event that they can no longer forefill their parental obligations and moderate to severe depression or phobia sets in and is untreated you end up with what we are seeing today.
My sisters and two brothers (one recovered) have mental problems that cause them to not always make the best decesion's they possibly can. At times they too get so depressed that they feel they would be better off dead as they wouldn't have to watch their children suffer. This isn't something new but a very little talked about public crisis problem. It has been around since the begining off our recorded history and there isn't much of anything in the way of stopping it.
When it comes down to it most people who are in this position in the first place have no means or ways to get the medical or even counseling help they need. The outcome as such is what we are being bombarded with in the MSM now.
During many of our and others past recessions and even many depressions the same has been a sideline taboo issue. But in todays word of pharma and doctors know best it is something being brought to the forefront of news and talk among those in the medical feild on how to deal with it because it is becoming rampant once again.
The obvious needs of the people we have read about this past weeks is a problem that can be handled in a better way. First of all there must be and in most cases are docotrs out there that WILL donate their time to help those in need.
The problem is most of them don't have a way to connect with anyone other than family. Now if a persons family see's this developing they need to be the one's to help. This alone is what has made this crisis of mental health such a problem NO ONE IS TALKING. That is all it takes one family member to hand off a silent note detailing places that can be of assistance. Who cares if they get mad at you! In a few weeks/months time they may be dead if you sit on your buttocks anyway.
The key to stopping this crisis is to not be affraid to be the one to open lines of communication! Polictically correct went out the window when millions became homeless the time for being straight forward and in the faces of those who need help is at hand.

reply to post by DaddyBare


Well, when the World seems to have gone mad and the current events are perceived as being desperate, out-of-control or both, I tend to think people may be more inclined to be irresponsible, reckless or dangerous in their own lives.

In other words, consequences be damned because we're all going to hell anyway. Metaphorically speaking (I hope!).

reply to post by kosmicjack



Carylon Baker certainly does have impressive credentials but I feel she is being a little premature in calling it an "unraveling of society" or "collapse Psychosis"

What we are seeing In the MSM is disturbing in that there seems to be alot of senseless violence, but society like any dynamic mechanism has ebbs and flows.

What I feel we are experiencing concerning the mass killings is the "cluster effect" "copy cat" syndrome. At least that's what I hope, as Ms. Baker's premise is almost to frightening to contemplate.

reply to post by whaaa


Honestly yes, it's frightening. Sometimes she's frightening. I can only take her perspective in small doses. Otherwise I feel the need to run into the woods and hide.

Previously I would have tended to agree with your other statement about clusters or copy cats but there is an accelerated feel this latest round of violence that I just can't dismiss.

It is strange how "out of the blue" these killings are happening.
The Dow 'basically' crashed.(although it seems miraculously to be "up" lately)
Jobs are hard to find.

..but this has happened before, were there this many killings back before our prosperity? Yes, but not in as large of "groups."

I must admit, that people like Speck, Dahmer, etc. don't seem so unique anymore after this past week or so of mass killings. I've noticed some "family" killings as well, as if they don't want their children to go through what they think is coming.

I honestly think there is some foreknowledge going on(realistic or not). Some people feel like the worst is yet to come, and don't want their loved ones or themselves to see it.

Then again... maybe they're just "crazy."

DISCLAIMER: This is not saying, to go out and kill your family. Suffering can sometimes be a good thing.

I work 2 days a week at one of the local food banks.

The fear and despair I see in the eyes of those receiving help is heartbreaking. I see these faces at night when I try to sleep.

I believe we will see more destructive behaviour as the economic condition continues to worsen.

During the last great depression there was needless violence but in my opinion we will see more this time as not as many folks have gardens and chickens to help see them through.

Yes, gardens and chickens sounds strange to people in this generation. I remember as a small child in the 50's that it was common for people to have gardens and chickens.

The majority of our citizens have become used to popping frozen food in the microwave or stopping by the local fast food joint to get their food.

They've concentrated on having a pretty lawn and flowers. Food has been so easy to get.

Many are now unemployed and don't have a clue as to how to use the land to feed themselves. The pioneer spirit is gone for many. Nothing left but fear and failure.

Two weeks ago I went to the little country feed store near me to buy some seed potatoes. I bought the last 25# the store had. I was told that so many folks are starting first time gardens that seed potatoes are getting harder to find and that they have sold more seeds than ever in their 50 years of being in business.

That leads me to believe there is a glimmer of hope for many people. But for others there is a feeling of dread and hopelessness.

We are having a rise in petty theft and also armed robberies here. It will get worse as those that have will be a target for those that have not.

I give thanks to my grandparents for teaching me how to garden and take care of farm animals. May they rest in peace.

I have a beautiful garden and some laying hens and a few roosters. I am also prepared for that two legged fox that comes to rob my chicken coup and steal my vegetables.

By the way the garden was a very pretty lawn of St. Augustine grass that I pampered since 1989. I bought an old tractor and plowed the lawn up in January. I did not shed a tear. I will have plenty to eat this winter if all heck breaks loose.

I do hope we are wrong and we won't see the devastation many of us see coming.

Originally posted by DaddyBare
I still have trouble with the story that came out of Calif. where this man killed his family because they were down to their last million dollars!

Are you sure that is true, what sort of person would do that. Any links to stroy.

I doubt this person is as good as any of the others to judge the situation. Capitalism has failed, but the money men stll want it going, so it will be a long game they are playing out.

I wish they would put 'economic denial syndrome' into the DSM. This phenomenon where folks watch the Dow going up and decry, "all is well, you were so wrong! All is WELL!"

I have at least a half dozen friends and family that mock me because, "the economy is making a comeback!"

It's the same phenomenon as collapse syndrome.

reply to post by traderjack


Well said!

I too am suffering these fools who truly and deeply believe it's simply "life as usual" out there and continue to act like spoiled brats simply because it's easier and that chose NOT to "see."

Great topic. I looked at a few of Carolyn Baker's articles and they seemed pretty depressing but I've thought about this for a very long time. I first starting wondering about it when it was all the rage to talk about what emotions and thoughts activated the "chakras". I remember nun and scientist Caroline Myss addressed the issue in regards to the root chakra - how personal threats correlated to that chakra and could cause illnesses or back problems related to that but I don't think she ever addressed larger threats and their effects - the annihilation of extinction of large portions of one's population or even the whole planet itself. Most of us have grown up under the threat of nuclear annihilation - the "baby boomers" were the first generation born into it. I think people have had to grapple with this on a spiritual and philosophical level for the most part.

The global economic meltdown, over-population and disappearing vital resources forces people to think on more even more basic survival level - those who have never experience poverty, war or hunger and those who have never seen it up close naturally fear for their personal safety and survival and may experience limitations or loss of faith in the spirituality or philosophy that previously sustained them. They may experience conflicts inside themselves because their "higher selves" are at conflict in very real terms with their primitive brains and survival instincts. This is very uncomfortable for some so they may either look for scapegoats or outside groups to deal with it or they may have a psychotic break - unable to resolve the conflict between long held belief systems and the autonomic fight or flight (or freeze) impulse they are now experiencing.

reply to post by kosmicjack


This is a real thing happening...people do lose it when they are "losing it"
job, home, cars, relationships, retirement. For many those stabilites are a foundation in life, and if the foundation is cracking and falling apart...so does the person. So sad...

No wonder my Grandmothers were like they were...they saved everything...and knew how to save money. They both lived through the Great Depression.

And as for the Zombie attack... Oh my ...that is just crazy. I am pretty much speechless...
There has to be some kind of link to the perpetrator's previous injury, and subsequent hospital treatment!

[edit on 9-4-2009 by burntheships]

reply to post by kosmicjack


A star for you. Thank you for this. I knew all along. It's nice to know that someone out there can label it for everyone. Not all labeling is bad. Putting a name to a condition can create a revelation for the person experiencing it.

It is funny though, and you are a mod, and this person you cite and their work is contrary to what everyone comes here for at ATS. I am a junkie for this. But it is almost maddening now, knowing that it is real. "Unraveling" is quite scary, I think everyone has a marginal degree of paranoia and schizophrenia, If I think about this too much I will go insane. And I am almost afraid to click on the link your provided because I am scared of falling faster down the rabbit hole. But I will anyway.

Again, thanks.

reply to post by kosmicjack


I wonder if she is a disciple of Daniel Quinn, this excerpt makes me think so...

Empire, which I use synonymously with civilization, is all about keeping the focus external to oneself for the purpose of enhancing the well being of a few dominant individuals in a strictly prescribed hierarchical system which encompasses all of the culture's institutions.

from the link you provided.

That whole articles and all that other stuff on her website is depressing! It talks like the plane is already going down and there's nothing anyone can do. I, for one, am now more paranoid than ever.

Originally posted by traderjack
I wish they would put 'economic denial syndrome' into the DSM. This phenomenon where folks watch the Dow going up and decry, "all is well, you were so wrong! All is WELL!"

I have at least a half dozen friends and family that mock me because, "the economy is making a comeback!"

It's the same phenomenon as collapse syndrome.

This is the result of the sickness of "magical thinking" that is epidemic in America. The idea that you "manifest" wealth or good fortune by "thinking positve." If you just close your eyes, stop up your ears, and chant, "la la la I CAN'T HEAR YOOOOO!" then everything will be well and problems will magically disappear. Its why that wretched book "The Secret" was a bestseller. Of course, maintaing some semblence of optimism is a must in life. But when taken to extremes, this "power of positive thought" stuff becomes old-fashioned DENIAL.

There are a myriad ugly results of this mindset. Parents tell their kids "you can do anything you want if you just set your mind to it." Well, no, actually. Often you CAN'T do what you want because of the caprices of fortune and powers beyond your control. Society does NOT prepare citizens for such eventualities AT ALL Thus, when people fail, they internally blame themselves even when the matter was beyond their control. This inner blame festers and simmers deep down inside while people put on a cheeze-eating happy-face grin and tell themselves and the world that "things are going great, better than ever!" This is exactly the sort of toxic mix of self-blaming and denial that causes suicides and mass homicides.

Add to this a culture where people measure their self-esteem more and more by material goods and it gets even more sick. People treat life like a "game" where the size of their net worth or square footage of their house is the "score." When this goes sour, they have no way of feeling inner worth disconnected from socio-economic status.

This is a very American sickness. People are deprived of dignity and inner strength by this nightmare merry-go-round of denial, inner self-blame, and materialism. Evil, evil, evil.

reply to post by silent thunder


Bravo! A star for you!

I push this on everyone eventually, but this was a documentary on PBS, called Affluenza, and it is about, well, affluenza.

www.pbs.org...

Not out on google video yet, and this is a different version than the one I saw, the one that starts with a garbage-barge in the arctic ocean...

video.google.com...:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#

Yeah, there is no hope for mankind. It sucks saying that, I sound like a defeatist, but we brought it on ourselves. We allow these jag-offs to run this country into the toilet. No outrage. Not a peep. Alex Jones thinks we will survive, but he only says that, like, 1 out of 10,000 statements about "tyranny" and "the globalists are coming to kill us!"

But, yeah, get mad. I am.

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 10-4-2009 by pluckynoonez]

Originally posted by andy1033

Originally posted by DaddyBare
I still have trouble with the story that came out of Calif. where this man killed his family because they were down to their last million dollars!

Are you sure that is true, what sort of person would do that. Any links to stroy.

I doubt this person is as good as any of the others to judge the situation. Capitalism has failed, but the money men stll want it going, so it will be a long game they are playing out.

No Its true had to look it up but here it is...

Karthik Rajaram was found dead in his Porter Ranch home along with his wife, mother-in-law and 3 sons. Neighbors and coworkers say he was a loving father, but 'very intense' and at times unstable.

Link to news story

This part was written while the story was still unfolding but in the end this guy was living in someone else's million dollar home and they found just over 900, 000 in cash and other assets. so yes the guy did kill himself and his family over the bust.

It appears "Pessimism Porn" and "Collapse Psychosis" are one and the same.