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TSA full body scanners at airports.

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posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


Thank you for making my point.

When I enter an airplane they know for a fact I'm a US Citizen before I board and where I am going. That means guilt is presumed.

Only the rich fly private planes and you are giving a great example of how they are exempt from the laws. There is no logical reason TSA could not conduct the same procedures on private aircraft. Is there?

Think about it. If you were a Terrorist would you not have the brains to use a private craft?

Either "All Men are Created Equal" is true or it is not. The President swears an oath to the Constitution and every time he enters an aircraft that "We the People" own without the same security we go through he is being granted special privileged is he not? He is violating his oath and spitting on the Framers of the Constitution to which he swore an oath. Air Force One is NOT a private plane.




posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by WTFover

Now, don't come back with 'I have a right to get on a plane to travel'...No you do not...It is a privilege. If it were a right, it would be free. Poor people can't fly, due to the cost of a ticket.


Why is it a privilege. I hear that all the time, but nobody ever explains its meaning. I CAN afford to fly whenever I wish. Why should my right to travel freely within my own country be taken away from me? Please explain?

Why does a rich person have "privileges" that others do not have? Why is that OK? Are you rich?

I've only had one bad experience with TSA. A male TSA low income worker gave my Wife a pat down that included touching her private areas in public with an audience. Why was that OK to do to an American Citizen flying from within the US to within the US?

Where in the Constitution do they have the right to presume guilt under any circumstance? Please cite your sources?



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


NO they do NOT know that you're a US citizen. And if you are SO WHAT. Are you saying that US citizens don't do anything on planes? They've never tried to hijack a plane? They've never deliberately caused a plane to crash? They've never tried to attack anyone on a plane?

Even if you ARE a US citizen, guess what, the person in line at the SAME CHECKPOINT going to a different gate MAY NOT BE. So you're saying that that person needs to be screened but you don't? I've seen 90 year old people go through with weapons. I've seen 5 or 6 year olds have weapons in their belongings that someone else put there. I've had 16 year old kids mouth off ALL THE TIME about having something in their bag.

The number of US citizens that have made what constitute terroristic threats to an aircraft is MUCH higher than non-US citizens. All flying on domestic flights. I know, I was there watching them do it.

As for private planes, it has nothing to do with the rich being above the law. Aircraft under a certain size did not require screening. As I said I WILL HAVE TO CHECK to see if that law has changed. There was talk a couple of years ago of changing that, but I don't know if it went through.

US domestic flight hijackings:

First U.S. Aircraft Hijacked, May 1, 1961: Puerto Rican born Antuilo Ramierez Ortiz forced at gunpoint a National Airlines plane to fly to Havana, Cuba, where he was given asylum.

In 1969 there were FORTY hijacking attempts on domestic US flights, many by US citizens.

A memo from Secretary of State William Rogers to Richard Nixon in 1969:


Hijacking of aircraft to Cuba is an increasingly serious problem. Most of the hijacked aircraft have been U.S. planes, but aircraft from Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela and Peru have also been involved. So far this year, nine U.S. aircraft and three from other countries, all commercial airliners, have been taken to Cuba. This compares with seventeen U.S. and nine non-U.S. aircraft hijacked in 1968. A few of these were non-scheduled and private planes, but most were commercial airliners. There were seven successful hijackings of U.S. aircraft and three of other countries in the period 1961-67. Most of the recent hijackers have been U.S. citizens, rather than Cubans.

www.paxety.com...

US domestic flight terror attacks:

FedEx flight 705. DC-10-30, flight crew was not screened. A pilot deadheading with the crew boarded with several weapons and attacked the crew in flight. He then planned to fly the aircraft in FedEx headquarters. The flight was from Memphis, Tennessee to San Jose, California.

Pacific Southwest 1771. Bae-146 with 43 passengers and crew. USAir employee David Burke was fired for stealing money from the "beer fund". He boarded the aircraft, after bypassing security with his badge, which was not recovered for some reason, with a handgun. The USAir CEO was on the flight. After reaching cruising altitude, Burke dropped a note on his lap that said 'It's kind of ironical, isn't it? I asked for leniency for my family, remember? Well, I got none, and now you'll get none.' Burke proceeded to fire one shot into the CEO with a .44, went into the cockpit where he killed both pilots, and then apparently shot himself. The CVR recorded four shots total, three in the cockpit. The plane crashed killing everyone onboard.

It doesn't MATTER if you are a US citizen or not. YOU CAN NOT IGNORE ONE GROUP and screen another. You can't look at a group and say "You're a US citizen, you're ok to get on the plane. You're not, you might be a terrorist so we're going to screen you." YOU CAN NOT look at one group over another and say they're more likely to be a terrorist.

[edit on 4/8/2009 by Zaphod58]



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Privilege - a special advantage or immunity or benefit not enjoyed by all.
( I used Google for the definition, as it is quick and simple)

Rights are guaranteed by the Constitution. Privileges are not. An easy example is having a license to drive an automobile. A privilege. Not everyone can have this benefit. Do the blind get to drive? No... Privilege...Can your ability to drive be taken away due to continuous violations of traffic law? Yes...Privilege.

Everyone does not enjoy the benefit of air travel. As I said, if you can not afford a ticket, you don't get to fly. If you don't believe that, go down to the airport and try to get on a plane without buying a ticket. Let me know how that works out for ya.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by WTFover]



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


When you buy that ticket you agree to abide by all terms of travel put in place by the airlines. That means, you agree to carry x number of bags, that weigh no more than x number of pounds. That means, you agree that you can be bumped off the flight for no reason other than the airline overselling the flight and your number being pulled. That ALSO means that you agree to allow them to screen you for any weapons or explosives at the checkpoint.



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 08:07 PM
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You two are fully brainwashed IMO. We will have to agree to disagree. Either All Men are Created equal or we are not and as long as some are treated differently by the law than others, it is against the Constitution.

As to the "privilege of driving a car", I don't want to pilot the plane. I'm a passenger on public transportation so that logic does not apply.

And yes they do know you are a citizen from your ID and the background check that is done. That is patently false. That is why they always search those that pay cash. They can't be pre-screened.

Again, why was it OK for that TSA man to touch my Wife in her private area's for no reason other than a random search? I've already won that argument years ago as you will notice they no longer allow that. Even they agreed that was going to far. Now that same person can view my Wife in what amounts to naked state?

They have found terrorists working for TSA and if you read here you would remember that. They also found many convicted Felons working for them. Who are you to say that perverts won't now jump at the chance to get one of these jobs?



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


I give up Zaphod. If that is the world you want to live in it looks like you and your peers have won. Perhaps you should also search everyone's homes as it is no different. Presume everyone is a criminal and kick their doors in. How do we know that you are not a Terrorist? We don't. Why should they not search your home? You could have a Block Party and blow up your neighbors could you not. I think that is where this is leading.

I also think the White House should be searched, just in case
Handcuff the First Family and make them prove they are innocent. Check that medicine cabinet and make sure they have prescriptions. Look for cigarette butts as he is a smoker and smoking in the White House or on the Grounds is illegal.

I know I'm being ridiculous, but so are they and so are you.



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Background check? That's funny. Their "background check" is seeing if your name is on the No Fly List. As for your ID, I can go to downtown Atlanta and buy a fake ID that would fool just about anyone.

I WORKED airport security. IT IS NECESSARY. If you want to fly on planes that don't get screened, go to Africa or one of the undeveloped nations that fly around. Just look at the numbers of hijackings and other incidents on DOMESTIC FLIGHTS in those countries, and compare them to ANY country that screens their passengers.

Let's try an experiment, we'll go to an airport one day, and you can point out all the terrorists to me soIcan learn how to tell the difference.



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


I don't know about you, but I'm getting out of here, while I still have a small amount of sanity.

By the way, I really enjoyed reading your signature and Daily Thought. May I borrow that sometime?



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


I WORKED airport security.
Let's try an experiment, we'll go to an airport one day, and you can point out all the terrorists to me soIcan learn how to tell the difference.


So you were taught to presume guilt? You just do as you are told and believe what you are told?

I'm an employer and with just the information they have from the credit card purchase they CAN confirm I'm a citizen. Unless they are idiots which could be true. It takes me less time than it takes to do a pat down to know everything about an applicant. I find it hard to believe the government can't do the same.

There are over one million American Citizens on the do not fly list. How many do you guess are guilty? What debt is owed to the innocent who are on the list. Who is going to make it right for them? I'll bet you that nearly all of them are innocent.

If it eases your fears, I am always polite with the Security People and the Staff on the Plane. I'm a pacifist. When I hit a bird with my car I suffer for days. I use my nail clippers to clip my nails and my shampoo bottles only contain shampoo.

If you want to really help out. Do something about the drunks and the screaming babies of incompetent parents. And for Gods sake, make the people who don't shower use deodorant first.


Interesting debate
and you did not loose your cool


I think we wore this topic out.



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
So you were taught to presume guilt? You just do as you are told and believe what you are told?


We didn't presume anything, but we also didn't take anything for granted. We didn't look at someone and say "Well he can't be a terrorist, but HE can." We simply did our job. If you set off the walkthrough, you got screened with a handwand. If you had something in your bag, you got checked. We randomly picked bags and swiped them for explosives. We didn't presume guilt on ANYONE, unless there was reason to.

You CAN NOT take anything for granted in that job. If you make a mistake on the wrong person, 400+ people can die. It is a stressful job, that is unappreciated, and gets a lot of abuse. We were expected to do our job with equipment that wasn't the best, because the airlines didn't want to pay for good equipment, or anything, and wanted to pay us minimum wage.

Airport security IS a necessary evil in this world. You CAN NOT take for granted that because someone is an American citizen they won't try something on the plane. By the time you figure out they will, it's too late.



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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Sorry I dont want anyone looking at my buttcrack or other parts!!



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by brooklyn87
Sorry I dont want anyone looking at my buttcrack or other parts!!


Another example of sheer ignorance. No one sees you. A COMPUTER GENERATED SCAN is taken of you, digitally translated, and displayed on a screen. THEY ARE NOT TAKING X-RAY PICTURES THROUGH YOUR CLOTHES!

I would still love anyone on here to explain to why a digital readout of a body scan is porn and a kid running around in their diaper on the beach isnt....or the middle schooler wearing tight clothing.

Everyone wants to argue the whole "child porn" thing, yet not one person has even attempted to address that question which I have now posed three, count em, three times.



posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 





THEY ARE NOT TAKING X-RAY PICTURES THROUGH YOUR CLOTHES!


Just one question. Are you able to see the size of peoples' genitals? Based on the first picture in the OP it is clear you are. I can clearly see the woman is wearing a thong. I can see the size and shape of her breast and her vagina. This is an invasion of privacy in my opinion.

And if we agree that this is appropriate in the name of security where do we draw the line? There have been several mass shootings lately, maybe people should be searched upon leaving there homes. After all we all must be protected.




posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by Zaphod58
 


I don't know about you, but I'm getting out of here, while I still have a small amount of sanity.


LOL I think I might just do the same. It does not take a Nuclear technician with 5 PHDs to realise that some people on this thread are mentally insane.

From screening passengers, to invasion of privacy, to child porn, to non-US citizens boarding a plane, to terrorists, to drugs up your butt, to digital technology, to privilege, to rights, to the constitution, to TAC....

Just what exactly are you people questioning at the present time & why?




[edit on 9/4/2009 by Dark Ghost]

[edit on 9/4/2009 by Dark Ghost]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 10:38 AM
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This the best thing in the world!!!! Do you guys understand all the fun you can have with the TSA now???? I'm never wearing under wear to the air port again... "Umm..sir could you step through the check point"? "SURE!!" I'd be happy to...
...

I'd just glue a few decorative metal clothing beads in a fashionable arrow pointing down to my hog on my chest with "open for busniess" lettered out..



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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Wow,

This is pretty voyeuristic. Why cant it be just a normal x ray? I could see that poor womans pubic hair. Cant they modify it or something? I sure as hell dont want some fat TSA security guard to be looking at my ass...

Some inventors are mischievous...

[edit on 9-4-2009 by Vyrtigo]



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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Look, I understand the concerns about the detail of the imaging, and I agree, there is no need for them to be quite so detailed. However

A)I see the outline of at LEAST one thong walking around town EVERY SINGLE DAY
B)I see the size and exact shape of women's breasts EVERY DAY walking around town
C)I see children walking around in diapers and sometimes naked EVERY TIME I go to the beach
D)I see shirtless men EVERY TIME the sun is shining.

I'd still like to know where the difference lies....I'm starting to think, though, that I'm not going to get an answer



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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The difference lies in being able to take a picture and look at it. In public, you cant look that long or else you get in trouble... lol

If you are a tsa what is going to stop you and your coworkers from gawking at the stills of some hot girl that walks through the monitor?

And if it was your wife, and the tsa agent was some hairy fat guy, would you be comfortable knowing that this hairy fat guy can see your wife practically naked?



posted on Apr, 9 2009 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by Vyrtigo
The difference lies in being able to take a picture and look at it. In public, you cant look that long or else you get in trouble... lol

If you are a tsa what is going to stop you and your coworkers from gawking at the stills of some hot girl that walks through the monitor?

And if it was your wife, and the tsa agent was some hairy fat guy, would you be comfortable knowing that this hairy fat guy can see your wife practically naked?

Are you kidding? You think there is a "Gawk Police" that will "get you in trouble" if you stare too long at something? Seriously?

For the last time, THERE IS NO PICTURE TAKEN OF OUR NAKED BODY.

The TSA is far more highly regulated than public places/view. You all need to take into account the double standard that you are advocating here.

I also, aside from the question that I have asked 5 times now, have to wonder what you all want in airport security. No one can rightly argue that security is not necessary. So what would you have?

Also, let's keep in mind, that you have no OBLIGATION to fly. IT IS A CHOICE YOU MAKE. No one HAS to fly. IF YOU PREFER NOT TO SUBJECT YOURSELF TO SECURITY, DONT FLY.




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